Migrating from a (defunct) forum.... problem with timing belt

Mpaw

Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2018
Location
Germany
TDI
Caddy 2005 1,9 105 ps; Polo 2015 90PS Bluemotion
Hi everyone,
I hope there's more life in this forum :)
Original problem was this:

Just changed the timing belt, cylinder head swop, new valves. Seemed all ok but very cold in my garage.
Did the test turning the crankshaft 2 turns by hand after fitting new belt. but wouldn't turn after about 200° (I didn't force it). Turning it back - it only went about 180° back. So now it moves freely between about 20° to 200°. but not more
Rockers not yet tightened down onto top of valves so valves can't be going into pistons (much ;-) )
I double checked everything when assembling, but somehow I must have done something wrong.
This kind of thing doesn't make one feel good :-(

Any ideas would be gratefully appreciated...
Which has now become this:
According to my manual, if the camshaft cog is round, the crankshaft arrow should be lined up to where the red mark is in photo, if oval then it should lined up with the arrow on locking tool.
I measured my camshaft cog very carefully and it is definitely round. I had lined up to the red mark and got the problem above. Now I tried it as shown in photo, and the crankshaft with timing belt on (so also camshaft) rotate the 2 test turns without problems.
Anybody got anything to add? Would help to get some backing / opinions before everything is together and I try starting it and mankle the engine up completely ....
Pretty please...?
Thanks,

Pete
 

DivineChaos

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 27, 2019
Location
gets cold here
TDI
mk6 jetta sportwagen tdi
There's still life here. It's just some have been here a long time and are tired of answering the same questions because someone can't or won't search.
 

turbodieseldyke

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2010
Location
Free Mustache Rides
TDI
98 jetta
The arrow and red mark are 32 degrees apart. Shape of the cam cog shouldn't make a 32 degree difference in the alignment marks on the crank.

Sounds like you're lined up now, at least with those 2 cogs.
 

Mpaw

Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2018
Location
Germany
TDI
Caddy 2005 1,9 105 ps; Polo 2015 90PS Bluemotion
Thanks for the answers. reassuring!
" Shape of the cam cog shouldn't make a 32 degree difference in the alignment marks on the crank. " - Yea, but that's what the official VW manual (erwin) says! I've done it a few times before but somehow went a bit blank this time. Probably the cold.
Same questions because the cars just get older :) I did search quite a lot o-)
Anyway, fingers crossed.
 

Mpaw

Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2018
Location
Germany
TDI
Caddy 2005 1,9 105 ps; Polo 2015 90PS Bluemotion
Although when I think about it, I didn't get any answers..... yet. So not really reassuring.
Everything about a 16 year old fairly popular vehicle has probably been written somewhere. So no point in having forums really, or?
Newbies should just keep looking and stop annoying the veterans.
What do the veterans ask if they know everything?

My lock kit has 2 also
 

burn_your_money

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 16, 2012
Location
North Bay, ON
TDI
99 Beetle, 96 B4V, 05 Passat wagon
Is there not a mark on the flywheel that you can use to verify the crank lock?

I’m also confused about the part about not having the rockers tightened down???
 

Mpaw

Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2018
Location
Germany
TDI
Caddy 2005 1,9 105 ps; Polo 2015 90PS Bluemotion
sorry, maybe I didn't explain it well: the rockers were properly screwed onto the camshaft (camshaft was in right place) , but the screws that push injectors weren't set (loose).
The mark shown in photo?
 

Vince Waldon

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 25, 2009
Location
Edmonton AB Canada
TDI
2001 ALH Jetta, 2003 ALH Wagon, 2005 BEW Wagon
No flywheel mark on the PD-type engine... the locking jig on the front sprocket is how the engine is indexed to TDC. Aligning the marks... not red paint... so you should be good to go.

Smart to turn it over by hand first and figure out you needed to double-check. Hitting the starter as a test might have resulted in expensive noises.
 

burn_your_money

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 16, 2012
Location
North Bay, ON
TDI
99 Beetle, 96 B4V, 05 Passat wagon
Thanks Vince. If the car has a single mass flywheel it would possibly have the marks right? The BEW transmission has the pointer on it right?
 

flan

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 3, 2014
Location
On my couch
TDI
04 tdi jetta
No flywheel mark on the PD-type engine... the locking jig on the front sprocket is how the engine is indexed to TDC. Aligning the marks... not red paint... so you should be good to go.

Smart to turn it over by hand first and figure out you needed to double-check. Hitting the starter as a test might have resulted in expensive noises.
In the write up in your sig, the crank lock looks like the red dot (on his particular tool) would be the alignment point. What am I missing here?
 

Vince Waldon

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Apr 25, 2009
Location
Edmonton AB Canada
TDI
2001 ALH Jetta, 2003 ALH Wagon, 2005 BEW Wagon
In the write up in your sig, the crank lock looks like the red dot (on his particular tool) would be the alignment point. What am I missing here?
That picture shows lining up the two alignment marks etched in the tool. Different tools may have the marks at different teeth, but the point is to line 'em up.... like the OP (eventually) did with the triangle and the arrow etched into that particular tool.
 
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turbodieseldyke

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 6, 2010
Location
Free Mustache Rides
TDI
98 jetta
Why is there still a question? When he lined the crank to the red dot, it wouldn't turn over. When lined up on the arrow, it turned 2x freely.

Obviously, the red dot is the wrong choice, and the arrow is correct.
 

flan

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 3, 2014
Location
On my couch
TDI
04 tdi jetta
I borrowed a kit for my recent TB job and it had 2 different locks in it. One had a alignment arrow where the red dot is, the second one had an arrow where OP’s arrow is. Other than that they looked identical. I followed the referenced write up in Vince’s sig for the BEW which shows the allingment arrow in red dot location. My car runs and 2 rotations of the crank wasn’t a problem.
 

PakProtector

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2014
Location
AnnArbor, MI
TDI
Mk.4 and the Cummins-es
No flywheel mark on the PD-type engine... the locking jig on the front sprocket is how the engine is indexed to TDC. Aligning the marks... not red paint... so you should be good to go.

Smart to turn it over by hand first and figure out you needed to double-check. Hitting the starter as a test might have resulted in expensive noises.
Really? Going to have to do something about that. I don't quite like the precision available by that crank lock. As a crank lock, just fine...main timing notice? not so much. At worst, SMF/VR6 clutch here I come.
cheers,
Douglas
 

Metal Man

Vendor
Joined
Sep 29, 2001
Location
Sunbury,PA 17801
TDI
1998 NB TDI, 2006 Jetta TDI, 2014 Tiguan gas, , 2019 E Golf X2
If I'm reading this right the confusion is from the red mark on the tool. There are two similar tools that we commonly use in the US. The T10050 has in the past had a bigger knob on it and the mark is located where the OP's red dot is. BEW and BHW for us.
BRM engines for us use T10100, these have normally in the past had a smaller knob (now there are plenty with a larger knob available) and the timing mark is to the right as circled in the first post.
 

Mpaw

Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2018
Location
Germany
TDI
Caddy 2005 1,9 105 ps; Polo 2015 90PS Bluemotion
Thanks for the help, really appreciated. :):cool:
It's a BLS engine and my kit has both types of locking devices. Knowing the right one is probably the hard bit (but maybe not for clever bods, but for us 'normal' folk).
To quote Erwin (VW online manual system):
Special tools: ...
Crankshaft stop - T10050-
...
Crankshaft stop - T10100- (on vehicles with oval crankshaft belt pulley)
From the erwin drawing, it looks like the one in the picture is the T10100 but without red dot. All my pulleys are round ;)
Sorry for bringing up a well-chewed subject, but it is fairly critical and makes for a bit of panic...
 

PakProtector

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2014
Location
AnnArbor, MI
TDI
Mk.4 and the Cummins-es
Oh...brilliant there are two locking tools for the PD's. And I collected two. Have to take a look at 'em as they're different colours...

And now the lightbulb goes off; mine are aftermarket with screws instead of hooking onto the teeth. They both said BEW on their sacks.

Is there no flywheel mark on the BEW? The transmission case is the same EUH v EGR I believe, so adding a SMF with a mark should take care of this...IFF indeed the BEW's is missing the flywheel mark.
cheers,
Douglas
 

Metal Man

Vendor
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Location
Sunbury,PA 17801
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1998 NB TDI, 2006 Jetta TDI, 2014 Tiguan gas, , 2019 E Golf X2
The bolt on lock is more universal for different motors. Where the timing mark is doesn't matter for these since it locates from the bolt holes. I would say the vast majority of TDI timing belt jobs done on 2004 cars and up have been with the crank lock and it works just fine. Don't make it harder on yourself than it has to be.
 

burn_your_money

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 16, 2012
Location
North Bay, ON
TDI
99 Beetle, 96 B4V, 05 Passat wagon
My kit also came with both crank locks. My dads car does have a single mass flywheel so I may have used that to verify which tool to use or I may have used the cam lock to verify which crank lock to use.
I would attempt to install the cam and crank lock before removing the belt to see which one is closest. It’s unlikely that either would actually slide in since it’s a used belt but one should be very close.
 

Mpaw

Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2018
Location
Germany
TDI
Caddy 2005 1,9 105 ps; Polo 2015 90PS Bluemotion
I put the wrong one in before I took the belt off (or at least at the wrong angle). Changed belt and then got the problems. I think what Metal Man said is correct - I never had problems like this before, but never read erwin so closely (probably used the Haynes). Our newer polo has a different locking tool, but it's clear that it's not for the MkIV :)
 

Mpaw

Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2018
Location
Germany
TDI
Caddy 2005 1,9 105 ps; Polo 2015 90PS Bluemotion
Sussed it (I think):
"on vehicles with oval crankshaft belt pulley" refers to something else - what they actually mean is "oval toothed belt pulley" and by this "oval-toothed belt pulley" and not "oval toothed-belt-pulley".
So, everything clear?
So the teeth are oval, not the pulley :)
 
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