MFA vs. manual calc (MPG)

traubenberg

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2009
Location
Ville of Liberty
TDI
B5.5 Passat (wagon)
2005 Passat
47k miles

Trip computer shows 35.5 mpg, but trip miles divided by gallons filled is maybe 31. This is my 3rd Passat and I've found the trip computer to be accurate to not greater than 0.5 mpg. That sort of difference I can live with. Any thoughts?
 

jbright

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 10, 2009
Location
Indianapolis
TDI
2009 Jetta DSG
I've found mine to calculate up to 2 mpg high on mostly highway tanks, and about the same spread in the other direction (too low) on mostly city tanks (which also happen to be winter driving -- I moved two months ago). Occasionally, it's exactly the same as my manual figure. I have no idea why there's this discrepancy. All in all, it's pretty accurate on my '09, usually within a few tenths of a gallon.
 
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traubenberg

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2009
Location
Ville of Liberty
TDI
B5.5 Passat (wagon)
The real kicker for me is that both previous Passats were reasonably accurate.

There's no reason for me to be getting less than 35mpg out of this thing. I peg the speedo at 75 on the highway for my commute and out of 27 miles, it's about 23 on the highway. Newly reconstructed, 4 lanes each way, wide open. Like I said, the computer is showing what I expect. The manual calc is giving me something else. (I'm assuming that neither my calculator, Excel nor my phone are doing the division incorrectly.)

Unless I'm losing about a gallon of fuel somewhere (running *really* rich), I can't figure it out.

Here's what happened:

- Low fuel light came on this AM
- Previous experience tells me that low fuel light = approx. 3 gallons to go
- Trip computer shows me 35.3 mpg tank average
- I happened to stop within 10 miles of light coming on
- Important: I stopped at the same station, same pump as last fillup. Used same method to fill tank - wait until auto-stop, watch bubbles go down, then top off to nearest $0.25. (I dunno, I like seeing multiples of $0.25 on my gas card bill.)
- Get receipt.
- Do math based on both change to overall odo (47k miles) and trip odo (480 miles since reset/fillup).

If I did 480 miles on 13.5 gal, that's 35.5 mpg. The computer was giving me approx. 35.5mpg as a readout *and* 13.5 gal is about what I'd expect to have as capacity when the light goes on (presupposing 16.4 gal capacity).

Instead, I put in 15.5 gallons. Over 480 miles, that's a dismal 31mpg.

***?

If I were losing 2gal of fuel over the course of a week or so, there'd be a puddle in my garage. If I were running that damned rich, I'd be blowing smoke screens all over creation.

What am I missing?
 

moosejaw

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2005
Location
St. Louis, MO
TDI
*Sold* 2005 Passat GLS TDI Shadow Blue
Are you doing a full vent of the tank when you fill up? You said you go till it shuts off then go to the nearest .25c. That is not very reliable for verifying the fuel level on fill up.

Venting when you fill so you can see the fuel level would be a better reference for your mileage checks. Try that on your next couple of fillups and see how the numbers compare.

I haven't been tracking my mileage that close lately. When I was tracking it close (doing long commutes), the MFA and manual calcs were very close. All that data was on a PDA that died. :(
 

Joe_Meehan

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Sep 3, 2005
Location
Ohio USA
TDI
NB TDI, 2002.5, Silver
No on board mileage computer is very accurate. The most accurate allow for owner input to help it calibrate itself, but even then it will not always be accurate. It is very difficult for the computer to factor in highway city weather driving style etc.

My advice is:

Make sure your manual calculation is accurate. That means doing at least three or four fill-ups and manually calculating each one. In order to accept your manual calculation, all three or more calculations should be close. If not, it only means you need to maybe do a dozen or so calculations to get a good number.

Then compare what the car is computing and what you are. If they are off and if you calculated the manual numbers correctly, then adjust the car's computer if that is possible or just accept the error.
 

boutmuet

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 13, 2009
Location
Long Beach, CA
TDI
2015 BMW 328d
Just for your reference I fueled up today my MFD said my cumulative mileage was 38.5 and my manual calculation was 34.1. My scangauge as always was vastly more accurate reporting around 35 mpg.
 

fitzski

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2004
Location
Ottawa
TDI
Uh... hmm... Well, none...
The MFA in my Jetta (TDI) is routinely up to 14% off, and in the Passat (W8) is routinely up to 5% off. In both cases, it reports better economy than I am getting.

Not sure if the Passat cluster can be adapted with the correction factor... read here... IIRC, Immo3 clusters don't have the option available in VCDS (though you might be able do it with VAG-TACHO and editing the hex code... not for the weak!):
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=111362

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?p=1536891#post1536891
 
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traubenberg

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2009
Location
Ville of Liberty
TDI
B5.5 Passat (wagon)
boutmuet said:
Just for your reference I fueled up today my MFD said my cumulative mileage was 38.5 and my manual calculation was 34.1. My scangauge as always was vastly more accurate reporting around 35 mpg.
Wow. So you're running about 13% high on the MFA and I'm coming in around 14.5% high. That's a lot further off than I'm used to. It's good to know that I'm not the only one. It's sad to see the numbers (40.6 mpg on a 140+ mile RT this weekend!) and then not to realize them fully.
 

ruking

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 27, 2003
Location
San Jose area, CA
TDI
2003 VW Jetta, 5 M, Reflex Silver: 09 Jetta, 6 Sp DSG, Candy White: 12 VW Touareg, 8 Sp A/T, Flint Gray
traubenberg said:
2005 Passat
47k miles

Trip computer shows 35.5 mpg, but trip miles divided by gallons filled is maybe 31. This is my 3rd Passat and I've found the trip computer to be accurate to not greater than 0.5 mpg. That sort of difference I can live with. Any thoughts?
I have a few, they are not Passat specific. Like you, really no worries as long as you are IN the ball park. It would sound that yours (add my VW to the list also) is always in the ball park.

I still think the ultimate arbiter is the pen and ink calculation with actual gals being the reality. It is not a great feeling being say STRANDED out in the middle of the Mohave Desert in the heat of the mid day sun and your thermometer is 110 F. :cool: :eek: , as the computer is dead nuts on, but the reality does not support it... or was that vice versa.?;)

Or perhaps the computer should be programmed to have the "I am stupid option warning " due to the grandma's McDonald's litigation effect, aka some obnoxious voice programed to spew out boiler plate.

So in all practical seriousness, (I did this yesterday) my MFD showed 42.9 and the actual was 42.636363. or .0061919% off.
 
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traubenberg

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2009
Location
Ville of Liberty
TDI
B5.5 Passat (wagon)
Last fill up I was 8% off. It's getting better!

(***?)

Ah well. I keep a good journal of expenses - including fillups - and after a few more, I'll have enough of a base to have reasonable expectations as to my actual utilization. Then it's damn the MFA, full speed ahead!
 

jbright

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 10, 2009
Location
Indianapolis
TDI
2009 Jetta DSG
Do you have more than one mileage 'computer' on your Passat? I have two, three if you count instantaneous mpg -- trip memory, and total journey memory. I was wondering how the '05 Passat MFA is set up.
 

traubenberg

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2009
Location
Ville of Liberty
TDI
B5.5 Passat (wagon)
From memory, I've got ...

Instantaneous MPG
Average MPG 1 (active memory, resets after car is off for 2 hours)
Average MPG 2 (must be reset manually)
Time in operation 1 (active memory, resets after 2 hours)
Time in operation 2 (manual reset)
Distance 1 (2 hr limit)
Distance 2 (manual)
Est. miles to empty
Avg. speed 1 (2 hr limit)
Avg. speed 2 (manual)

I think that's everything.
 

Ski in NC

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jul 7, 2008
Location
Wilmington, NC USA
TDI
2001 Jetta ALH 5sp stock
t-berg- the mpg readout is derived from injector opening times from ecu. On winter fuel with lower heat content, injector open times have to increase a bit to produce the same power. Maybe not 14% error, but once you get back to summer fuel the error should tighten up. The mpg computer does not actually measure fuel flow. Its a derived estimate at best.
 

TDI-TID

Active member
Joined
Dec 30, 2009
Location
texas
TDI
audi a3
Mine is consistently 1-1.5mpgs higher than hand calculation, regardless of city v highway driving. The optimism is nice while I'm driving, but always creates a let-down later.
 

traubenberg

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2009
Location
Ville of Liberty
TDI
B5.5 Passat (wagon)
Ski in NC said:
t-berg- the mpg readout is derived from injector opening times from ecu. On winter fuel with lower heat content, injector open times have to increase a bit to produce the same power. Maybe not 14% error, but once you get back to summer fuel the error should tighten up. The mpg computer does not actually measure fuel flow. Its a derived estimate at best.
I don't know enough about diesels to vet this, but it sounds like a reasonable explanation. However, my buddy with a 2010 JSW TDI is off by maybe 2.0 - 3.0% when comparing hand calcs to the computer.

Is the PD motor that much different than the new 2.0 TDI?
 

mxs

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 30, 2009
Location
Ontario
TDI
2010 Golf TDI
My computer consumption basically matches a manual calculation. it's spot on.

I cannot see how winter would yield less accurate results than summer. If that was the case the MFD would be completely useless at best.
 

Ski in NC

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jul 7, 2008
Location
Wilmington, NC USA
TDI
2001 Jetta ALH 5sp stock
mxs said:
My computer consumption basically matches a manual calculation. it's spot on.

I cannot see how winter would yield less accurate results than summer. If that was the case the MFD would be completely useless at best.
I stand corrected. Brain fart, I suppose. The injector opening times will increase with lower btu fuel, but the accuracy of the calculated volume should stay the same.
 
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