Mercedes E250 Bluetec

What interests you about this thread?


  • Total voters
    2
  • Poll closed .

PeteZ06

Veteran Member
Joined
May 16, 2012
Location
Algonquin, IL
TDI
E320 CDI
Plenty of Bluetecs runnings around here in IL and 99% of the gas stations sell Biodiesel... Theres a gas station 2 miles from my house that sells highway truck diesel so I've been buying it there.... Unfortunately BioDiesel provides better MPG's
 

ssamalin

Veteran Member
Joined
May 13, 2007
Location
Southern CA
TDI
2015 Mercedes E250 Blutec. Previously: 2006 Jetta TDI
Plenty of Bluetecs runnings around here in IL and 99% of the gas stations sell Biodiesel... Theres a gas station 2 miles from my house that sells highway truck diesel so I've been buying it there.... Unfortunately BioDiesel provides better MPG's
Biodiesel is ruining their cars. Which also shows how tricky buying a used one is.
 

andreigbs

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 27, 2004
Location
Walworth Co., Wisconsin
TDI
N/A
Biodiesel is ruining their cars... snip.
Agreed, the chances for this are extremely high in IL, as the state provides huge incentives for the biodiesel suppliers and, by extension, equates to lower prices at fueling stations.

As a result, most biodiesel sold in the state of IL is at least B11, if not higher. The typical range is B11-B20.

Benz will only approve up to B5, even though they know fuel stations in IL will most likely be above that. (See http://biodiesel.org/docs/default-source/oem-statements/illinois-mb-biodiesel-brochure.pdf?sfvrsn=2)

Bottom line, if you fuel up with diesel in IL and end up having a fuel system issue soon after, your MB warranty will most likely NOT cover the damages.
 

Tin Man

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 18, 2001
Location
Coastal Empire
TDI
Daughter's: 2004 NB TDI PD GLS DSG (gone to pasture)
Agreed, the chances for this are extremely high in IL, as the state provides huge incentives for the biodiesel suppliers and, by extension, equates to lower prices at fueling stations.
As a result, most biodiesel sold in the state of IL is at least B11, if not higher. The typical range is B11-B20.
Benz will only approve up to B5, even though they know fuel stations in IL will most likely be above that. (See http://biodiesel.org/docs/default-source/oem-statements/illinois-mb-biodiesel-brochure.pdf?sfvrsn=2)
Bottom line, if you fuel up with diesel in IL and end up having a fuel system issue soon after, your MB warranty will most likely NOT cover the damages.
Apparently up to B20 is covered by MB warranty, but there are caveats including the need to monitor engine oil dilution and prolonged vehicle storage.

In their brochure, MB states "Fuel with biodiesel content greater than 20%, including B100, is not approved by Mercedes-Benz due to the risk of severe engine damage. Any damage caused by the use of such non-approved fuels will not be covered by the Mercedes-Benz New Vehicle Limited Warranty." This after saying anything above B5 is "not MB approved." I think IL rules have MB backed into a corner. It may be why we no longer see new passenger cars from MB for sale in North America, dunno. Confusing.

I personally would not use B20 or B100 if I could help it. Even in Illinois, B5 is available but it is taxed more than B20.

https://www.mbusa.com/vcm/MB/DigitalAssets/pdfmb/serviceandparts/biodiesel_Brochure5.pdf
 
Last edited:

ssamalin

Veteran Member
Joined
May 13, 2007
Location
Southern CA
TDI
2015 Mercedes E250 Blutec. Previously: 2006 Jetta TDI
Apparently up to B20 is covered by MB warranty, but there are caveats including the need to monitor engine oil dilution and prolonged vehicle storage.

In their brochure, MB states "Fuel with biodiesel content greater than 20%, including B100, is not approved by Mercedes-Benz due to the risk of severe engine damage. Any damage caused by the use of such non-approved fuels will not be covered by the Mercedes-Benz New Vehicle Limited Warranty." This after saying anything above B5 is "not MB approved." I think IL rules have MB backed into a corner. It may be why we no longer see new passenger cars from MB for sale in North America, dunno. Confusing.

I personally would not use B20 or B100 if I could help it. Even in Illinois, B5 is available but it is taxed more than B20.

https://www.mbusa.com/vcm/MB/DigitalAssets/pdfmb/serviceandparts/biodiesel_Brochure5.pdf
MB says use ULSD (B5) and not any other biodiesel. It also tries to say which blends are less bad but that's only if you have no B5.
 
Last edited:

andreigbs

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 27, 2004
Location
Walworth Co., Wisconsin
TDI
N/A
MB says use ULSD (B5) and not any other biodiesel. It also tries to say which blends are less bad but that's only if you have no B5.
That's how I interpret it too. Even the owner's manual on page 370 says it:

"Mercedes-Benz USA approves the use of biodiesel B5 for all BlueTEC diesel engines. The concentration of bio-diesel in the ULSD may not exceed 5% by volume. Pure biodiesel and diesel fuel with a higher percentage of biodiesel, such as B20, can damage the engine and the fuel system. For this reason, they are not approved. For more information, consult the gas station
staff. The biodiesel B5 label on the gasoline pump must clearly state that the standard for ULSD has been fulfilled. If the label is not clear, do not refuel the vehicle. Do not refuel your vehicle with fuels unless they have been approved by Mercedes-Benz."
 

dmanb2b

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 4, 2014
Location
NY
TDI
2012 Jetta, 2011 335D
Under the hood, everything looks different, even the oil filter housing angle. I'm sure there are similar components, but given the number of 535d's in circulation now, I haven't read many complaints with the EGR, DPF, urea injection system, NOx sensors, CBU, etc. Its a heavier car and some believe problems occur less often under heavy load.

The car itself has lower power numbers for HP and torque, but even 300-400 lbs heavier it out-accelerates the 335d here in the states and mine gets significantly better fuel economy. This could of course also be from the ZF 8 speed in the f10.

The engines sound different too - the f10 has a more "diesely" sound while the e90 seemed more aggressive and lacked the clickety clack of a traditional diesel.

During the NA e90 335d production, the engine computer design and programming went through at least three major changes, making the f10 diesel seem to be a final result.

TM
On another note, the N57 found in the 535D and 2014+ x5D found themselves with the cheaper CP4 fuel pump and a timing chain that has a tendency to snap (earlier EU models). The timing chain issue seems to have been resolved since, but that CP4 is in the back of the engine and requires engine removal if it goes bad. The M57 in the 335D was certainly plagued with emissions related issues, but the engine design is solid with quite a few examples now pushing past 200K miles on original turbos. Interesting also that the N57 reverted back to mechanical injectors, which is probably why you hear the more diesel type sound.
 

truman

Top Post Dawg
Joined
May 18, 2000
Location
columbia,MO,usa
TDI
'05 Passat Variant, Still miss the 03JW
Wow CP4 sucks and chain troubles too.
It appears to me that way too many newer models will be scrapped out by 150k.
 

PeteZ06

Veteran Member
Joined
May 16, 2012
Location
Algonquin, IL
TDI
E320 CDI
From the research I've done.. the fuel pump is an issue on the 535D.. and it seems to have been narrowed down to people buying diesel fuel from gas stations that don't see much diesel traffic.. So water evaporating during very cold winter months and freezing makes the fuel pump go boom! BMW extended the warranty to 10yr/100K miles for the fuel pump.
 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis (where it's safe)
TDI
There are just too many to list....
Customer of mine bought a diesel 5 in Atlanta, from a BMW dealer, flew down to pick it up. Driving it home, still on the tank of fuel the dealer provided, HPFP died on him. Suddenly, no warning, running perfect up until that point.

Towed to another dealer, pump replaced under warranty. Drove the rest of the way home here without issue. He wanted snows on the car, so he brought it here for that, then three days later, HPFP died again. BMW dealer here replaced it again, under warranty, and he left the car there and traded it right there on an Audi A4 Avant (multibrand dealer).

He still has the Audi.

So not sure if that was a common thing for that car or not, but that was a pretty awful track record. :(
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
TDI
'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
That is awful. I haven't heard of HPFP failures on BMWs, either on the forums or on the fb page. But I'm sure some happen, just like they do on VWs. A failure rate as high as your customer's makes me wonder if something else was going on.
 

ssamalin

Veteran Member
Joined
May 13, 2007
Location
Southern CA
TDI
2015 Mercedes E250 Blutec. Previously: 2006 Jetta TDI
The 2015 535d also had unacceptable IIHS Small Offset Crash Tests. If you hit a pole on the drivers side you can't survive. This was corrected by 2018. This was a major reason I traded in my Jetta. One third of fatality from front crashes were these, because these crashes were so lethal. Even if HPFP was the only reliability issue, these cars would be too expensive to keep out of warranty.
 
Last edited:

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis (where it's safe)
TDI
There are just too many to list....
The 2015 535d also had unacceptable IIHS Small Offset Crash Tests. If you hit a pole on the drivers side you can't survive. This was corrected by 2018. This was a major reason I traded in my Jetta. One third of fatality from front crashes were these, because these crashes were so lethal.

You drove across the country in your Jetta with slick ass bald tires... and THIS was a concern for you? :p Like, racing slick bald.

I'll take a 2015 5 over a 2006 Jetta with bald tires any day. ;)
 

ssamalin

Veteran Member
Joined
May 13, 2007
Location
Southern CA
TDI
2015 Mercedes E250 Blutec. Previously: 2006 Jetta TDI
I may have been poor but proud. And thanks for advising me about the glow plug cel. Harvieux eventually fixed it.
 
Last edited:

PeteZ06

Veteran Member
Joined
May 16, 2012
Location
Algonquin, IL
TDI
E320 CDI
The 2015 535d also had unacceptable IIHS Small Offset Crash Tests. If you hit a pole on the drivers side you can't survive. This was corrected by 2018. This was a major reason I traded in my Jetta. One third of fatality from front crashes were these, because these crashes were so lethal. Even if HPFP was the only reliability issue, these cars would be too expensive to keep out of warranty.
Can you post a link for this claim?
 

Tin Man

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 18, 2001
Location
Coastal Empire
TDI
Daughter's: 2004 NB TDI PD GLS DSG (gone to pasture)
Mercedes has always been the leader in car safety. They have more safety-related patents than anyone and generally allow other auto companies s/a Volvo to use them free-of-charge.
 

PeteZ06

Veteran Member
Joined
May 16, 2012
Location
Algonquin, IL
TDI
E320 CDI

ssamalin

Veteran Member
Joined
May 13, 2007
Location
Southern CA
TDI
2015 Mercedes E250 Blutec. Previously: 2006 Jetta TDI
The hitting a pole and not surviving claim. Yesterday I had my 535D at 140+mph so that claim has me concerned.
Did you check IIHS? Any questions on that? It says the driver gets crushed by the squashing frame. At 140 to 0 sudden stop the brain is mushed on the skull anyway. 55 stay alive. IIHS is 40mph. IIHS created a small offset test due to disproportionately lethal.
 
Last edited:

PeteZ06

Veteran Member
Joined
May 16, 2012
Location
Algonquin, IL
TDI
E320 CDI
I did... this is what I got from the link you provided....

Injury measures
Measures taken from the dummy indicate a low risk of any significant injuries in a crash of this severity.

Restraints and dummy kinematics
Dummy movement was well controlled. The driver side curtain airbag deployed during the crash. After the dummy moved forward into the frontal airbag, its head rebounded into the side curtain airbag.


I see where the E class did a bit better than the 5 class.. but not seeing where you don't survive in that accident in the 5 class. I love the E class.. just wish it had a better power plant and I'd be driving one.
 

ssamalin

Veteran Member
Joined
May 13, 2007
Location
Southern CA
TDI
2015 Mercedes E250 Blutec. Previously: 2006 Jetta TDI
Do you see the M rating for small offset? That mean marginal. The details say the dummy was crushed.
 

PeteZ06

Veteran Member
Joined
May 16, 2012
Location
Algonquin, IL
TDI
E320 CDI
Do you see the M rating for small offset? That mean marginal. The details say the dummy was crushed.

This is what I'm reading.... still not seeing where the dummy was crushed. M is for possible lower left leg injury..... Am I not seeing something?



Structure
The driver space was not maintained well, with maximum intrusion of the lower interior of 30 cm at the footrest. Upper interior intrusion measured 14 cm at the instrument panel. The steering column was pushed back 8 cm toward the driver.

Injury measures
Measures from the dummy indicate that injuries to the left lower leg would be likely in a crash of this severity. Injuries to the left foot would be possible.

Restraints and dummy kinematics
The dummy’s movement was well controlled. The dummy’s head loaded the frontal airbag, which stayed in front of the dummy until rebound. The side curtain airbag deployed and has sufficient forward coverage to protect the head from contact with side structure and outside objects.
 

ssamalin

Veteran Member
Joined
May 13, 2007
Location
Southern CA
TDI
2015 Mercedes E250 Blutec. Previously: 2006 Jetta TDI
Yea at 40, legs, at 60 dead. The meaning is there is no protection for this crash. That's why
small offset though only a small percentage of crashes accounted for 1/3 of lethality. By 2017 BMW fixed it.
 

PeteZ06

Veteran Member
Joined
May 16, 2012
Location
Algonquin, IL
TDI
E320 CDI
Is the 40 possible injury, 60 dead what they're saying? I don't see that posted or written any place on their site?
 

ssamalin

Veteran Member
Joined
May 13, 2007
Location
Southern CA
TDI
2015 Mercedes E250 Blutec. Previously: 2006 Jetta TDI
Is the 40 possible injury, 60 dead what they're saying? I don't see that posted or written any place on their site?
What do you think the steering column is pushing in means? The driver's compartment is crushing the driver. They say that. I'll take that as a safety fail. If you need more proof do some research about the lethality of these crashes in pre-IIHS testing and fortified cars. I was convinced.
 
Last edited:

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
TDI
'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
I think you're a little obsessed with this particular crash test. Everyone has to make their own choices about what they will and won't do to keep themselves safe. I still drive my '97 Passat and MKIV VWs anywhere I want. I'm sure the crash test results on those old cars are abysmal. But I've never been in a serious auto accident. I know there's always a first time, but one has to decide what is and isn't important. I fly on airplanes and get in and out of bathtubs regularly, too.
 
Top