Mechanic wants to replace turbo

[JohnnyRad]

2000 Golf GLS TDI (115k miles)

Hi All, I'm not sure what to do. My mechanic (on trusted list) informed me Thursday that my turbo needs to be replaced ($1100 parts $400 labor). I brought the car in 3 weeks ago because the Ck Engine light came on. At that time the mechanic said the following:
"code 19586 - references; no procedures to diagnose;
VW does not refer to that code; but has come up
in other diesels...refers back to EGR system that it
has exceeded its limit; EGR ports look good; EGR built
into body...put cleaner in for fuel injectors;
EGR valvel gets stuck every once in a while"

So during the past couple weeks the car has been inconsistently sluggish. Both with acceleration and maintaining speed. I say inconsistent because at times it runs fine with normal accerlation and driving speed. Other times I'll be driving up a incline on the turnpike and the car looses speed despite having accelerator to the floor. (MAF was replaced 4 yrs ago by VW due to power loss)

The mechanic said something about a vacuum/pressure issue. I didn't ask a lot of questions. After reading some posts from owners with similar problems I'm not convinced it's the turbo. Can you recommend specific questions to ask to help me determine if this mechanic is making a good recommendation? Any help is appreciated. Thank you!

 

[ymz]

I would definitely get a 2nd opinion !!!!

19586 (EGR System: Regulation Range Exceeded) can come from any of the following:

A clogged or sticking EGR or broken vacuum hose, a clogged EGR cooler, a bad MAF sensor, clogged intake manifold... (possibly even a bad MAP sensor... - unlikely)

Possibly an adaptation (Vag-Com) to group 3 may cure it...

Do a search on "Limp Mode"... http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=179589

I wouldn't touch the turbo... at least not until I rule out a whole lot of other possibilities...

Good luck,

Yuri.

 

[2004STARWARSTDI]

sluggish

Has the air & fuel filter been replaced recently? Do the brakes work ok-no vacuum leak?

 

[TornadoRed]

2000 Golf GLS TDI (115k miles)

Hi All, I'm not sure what to do. My mechanic (on trusted list) informed me Thursday that my turbo needs to be replaced ($1100 parts $400 labor). I brought the car in 3 weeks ago because the Ck Engine light came on.

This doesn't sound like a turbo problem -- a bad actuator may cause "limp mode" and might cause a CEL, but your problem doesn't seem to be intermittent.

Not every mechanic named in the "Trusted Mechanics" thread is really a TDI expert. Someone may have had some work done with good results, but it might have had nothing to do with specific TDI systems like the turbo or injection pump, etc.

 

[Canadian_Grizzly]

I concur with TornadoRed... while developing the trusted mechanics list I think we allowed the door a little too wide open. If its boost related then the issue will be from vacuum lines (best case) to a dirty turbo that just needs cleaning (worst case). See my sig for the writeup on limp mode.

 

[JohnnyRad]

Hi All,

Thanks for the feedback and advice! I’m going to call the mechanic first thing Monday morning and inquire about how he diagnosed the problem. I’ll ask more specific questions to see if he ruled out the other possible issues you mentioned.

Thanks again for the help!

John

 

[JohnnyRad]

Ok...here's the deal. Bad actuator. Any suggestions on where to get the actuator? Do you know the part number for it? My mechanic says all of his vendors sell the actuator/turbo as one part.

Thanks,
John

 

[puter]

Johnny: have you ruled out the MAF/

Try driving your car with the maf unplugged and see if you still have the sluggishness issues. Honestly, this sounds exactly like a maf...which gets missdiagnosed as a turbo problem all the time. The maf may not even need to be replaced, the cleaner may just need cleaning.

It's easy, and free to check...I would not go any further until I have ruled that out if I were in your shoes.

 

[ymz]

Ok...here's the deal. Bad actuator. Any suggestions on where to get the actuator?

http://www.tdiparts.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=530

Easy, relatively cheap repair...

Yuri.

 

[whitedog]

How was it determined the actuator is bad?

Did it not pull in? If not, can the lever move by hand?

Did it pull in and not hold? If so were they connected to the hose leading to the actuator, or were they on the actuator itself?

Step by step troubleshooting will avoid shotgunning parts at the problem.

 

[ymz]

Step by step troubleshooting will avoid shotgunning parts at the problem.

Step by step (inch by inch, etc.) troubleshooting takes time and effort... This all depends on whether the particular mechanic is primarily interested in the best interest of the customer or in making the most money in the least amount of time... (If the former case, I would hope that the mechanic will also look up how to properly adjust the replacement actuator... if the latter, he may just put it in and leave "well-enough" alone...)

Yuri.

 

[JohnnyRad]

Hi All, thanks again for the feedback. Yuri, I did order the part from TDIparts.com...thanks for posting the link. After speaking with the mechanic I feel confident he diagnosed properly. I really hit him up with a lot of questions about diagnosing limp mode and all the different issues that may cause it. He was patient with me and answered all my questions. He was also ok with me ordering the part and having it shipped to him. This garage only works on VW & Honda's. Since I don't do the work on my car all I can do is ask good questions and go with my gut. I'll post when I get my Golf back and let you know the outcome. You guys are great and really helped me on this one!

Thanks,

John

 

[puter]

Hi All, thanks again for the feedback. Yuri, I did order the part from TDIparts.com...thanks for posting the link. After speaking with the mechanic I feel confident he diagnosed properly. I really hit him up with a lot of questions about diagnosing limp mode and all the different issues that may cause it. He was patient with me and answered all my questions. He was also ok with me ordering the part and having it shipped to him. This garage only works on VW & Honda's. Since I don't do the work on my car all I can do is ask good questions and go with my gut. I'll post when I get my Golf back and let you know the outcome. You guys are great and really helped me on this one!

Thanks,

John

Your call. It would take less than a minute to unplug the MAF and the fix for the problem could be free...

If the mechanic checked it already then I'm with you on him knowing what he is doing, but a lot of mechanics blame the turbo for something caused by the MAF..And your symptoms sound exactly like a maf problem (granted, they also describe a turbo problem)

It's just easy to check, and cheaper to fix so I thought I would throw it out there.

 

[TornadoRed]

Not that long ago, there wasn't anyone who sold just the actuator -- if it was bad, you had to replace the entire turbo. Then someone in Canada started to sell it, and finally it became a fairly common replacement part -- though I doubt that any VW dealership sells actuators only.

It's very possible that JohnnyRad's mechanic knew the actuator was bad when he recommended a new turbo, but he didn't know you could buy just the actuator. Now he does.

We'll see what happens when Johnny gets his TDI back.

 

[JohnnyRad]

Hey Puter...I meant to respond to your suggestion. I did ask my mechanic if he considered the MAF & he said he said he replaced it and didn't see any improvement.

 

[puter]

Hey Puter...I meant to respond to your suggestion. I did ask my mechanic if he considered the MAF & he said he said he replaced it and didn't see any improvement.

Ya, definitely better than an entire turbo.

it would just make me feel bad if he spent $100 on an actuator when all he had to do was spray some de-oxit in a connector.

 

[puter]

Hey Puter...I meant to respond to your suggestion. I did ask my mechanic if he considered the MAF & he said he said he replaced it and didn't see any improvement.

Ah, that answers that

You replied just as I submitted my last message.

just didn't want you spending $100 plus labor for something that simple to check/cure.

 

[JohnnyRad]

Hi All,
Here's the update. I got my car back and it's running great. My mechanic installed the actuator that I bought from TDIParts.com (btw TDIParts was great to work with. Easy transaction & they shipped overnight). The mechanic commented on the third-party actuator saying that he felt the spring tension was different from the OEM actuator. He said he had to readjust the arm a couple of times and tweak it to make it right. He also replaced the control valve, cleaned the intake manifold, replaced the intake/exhaust manifold gaskets. All said and done the car is running great. With your help I was able to ask the right questions, order the part needed and save around $800!!!

Thanks again for all your help!

John

 

[JohnnyRad]

Well, it's been about four months now and the car occasionally (1-2 times/wk) jumps in to limp mode. It happens mostly at higher speeds (>60mph) when I'm accelerating. If you've read the previous posts you see I had my mechanic put in an aftermarket actuator. I don't do any work on my car but my gut tells me it may be the actuator adjustment. What do you guys think? Any suggestions. I live in the King Of Prussia, PA area. If there is anyone near by that might help me troubleshoot I'd appreciate it. Thanks, John

 

[puter]

Could be actuator, could also be a vacuum leak or the maf.

I would replace the vac lines because I think that's a bit easier than dealing with the actuator. After that, if you find a way you can reliably repro the problem, try unplugging the maf and see if it still happens, if it doesn't it's the maf.

If it's neither of those then ya, actuator. The only reason I don't jump to the actuator first is 1) it's harder to work on and 2) it seems like this wasn't happening at first and I don't think it's normal for an actuator to "lose" an adjustment...they generally just go bad I think.

 

[TornadoRed]

Actuators can be very tricky -- there is a wide range of incorrect settings, and only a single correct one. If it's not exact, then the turbo will underboost (lag) or overboost (spike).

Unless you start with a known correct length, there will be a process of trial and error. Log a run with VAG-COM, climb under and adjust actuator, then repeat. I've never done this myself, I had a good friend help me with my new turbo last spring, and eventually he got it exactly right but it's not easy.

Your intermittent problem might not have anything to do with the turbo or actuator -- it could be a vacuum hose leak, or an N75 problem, or a MAF sensor problem, or an EGR problem.

Limp mode once or twice a week is probably too often to ignore, you'll have to figure it out, but there are some good ideas in this thread.

 

[JohnnyRad]

Thanks again for the advice! I'll give these suggestions a try.

 

[JohnnyRad]

The car is running great. The actuator wasn't adjusted properly the first time but it's fixed and running perfect!!!

 

[whitedog]

Step by step (inch by inch, etc.) troubleshooting takes time and effort... This all depends on whether the particular mechanic is primarily interested in the best interest of the customer or in making the most money in the least amount of time... (If the former case, I would hope that the mechanic will also look up how to properly adjust the replacement actuator... if the latter, he may just put it in and leave "well-enough" alone...)

Yuri.

Yuri FTW!