Would the awd drivetrain from an awd tt work with an ALH? Motor is currently mated with an O2J and the whole build is for a mk2 jetta. I would be using the full wiring harness and dash from a mk4 jetta. (Build thread begins on page 2)
I ended spending a good portion of last night in the rabbit hole. There wss also a mk2 1.8T awd build incorporating TT parts.There are a few people who have done an ALH-->TT quattro conversion. Dig through this section a bit, and also check out Vortex - a few have done similar there.
Are you confirming that my Alh motor, full wiring/mk4 dash, and ECU (from a donor '02 Jetta manual) can talk to a mk1/mk2 TT Haldex controller as a plug-n-play option?!There are plenty of ALH/4mo cars out there as VAG built them (they just never sold any here). That is why the EDC15 controller the ALH uses has three soft coding slots: automatic, manual, and 4Mo (all the 4Mo cars were manuals by default). So the ECU already can "talk" to a Haldex controller.
And there are several ALH swapped Audi TTs running around stateside as well.
So yes, it can be done. Now as far as putting in an A2, you are on your own there. VAG did also build AWD A2 cars, we never got any here. Canada got a few, the Golf Rally. But the A2, A3, B3 were all sold in some numbers in Europe with some form of AWD so I would assume maybe you could source the rear floorpan and stuff that may aid in your endeavor.
I wasn't planning on using the O2J for the longitudinal swap. The ALH is a direct bolt on for the b5.5 passat transmission since they came from the factory in that diesel configuration. Only thing was the Passat is an auto.Well the 02J would have zero to do with a longitudinal anything, so not sure where you were going there. And the B5s use a Torsen AWD setup, so they are entirely passive mechanical (no controller for the AWD system).
I am not sure the details on what all the TT's Haldex controller will need to integrate into the late ALH's electronics, obviously the CAN Gateway will need to also acknowledge the Haldex controller, as well as the ABS module. And the ABS, just like the Engine, can be recoded as such.
But like I said, VAG built and sold ALH+manual A4 platform Golfs (so, Jetta is just the boring sedan version, same thing mechanically) with 4Mo that were otherwise exactly the same as the FWD cars.
You will probably need to source a transmission from europe. Users RyanP and Frans both specialize in importing that kind of stuff to the US.
I am guessing that the TT uses some 02M variant.
Yeb.. That is one way to go about it and I will definitely keep those handles in mind when I am ready to purchase the necessary parts needed for the swap. All depends on which 02M I end up with. There is a 5spd which incorporates a two shaft design; the latter variant is the more common 6spd 02M (DXW). They are pretty much the same other than the 6th slot is replaced by a spacer on the 5spd.Well yeah, you'd need a diesel specific gearing if you want to get that far into the illegal side of the speedometer. And once again, as I stated above, AWD+ALH cars left the factory and were sold in Europe (more common in the northern areas).
Thanks for the read. I have a lot more diggin' to do on gear ratios for boosted tdi's. I always wanted a 190-200mph MK2 and it would be cool if I can achieve that with this build (given the fact that I have to mess with the gear ratio regardless).Because the 02M has two final drive ratios (this is not unique, there are other FWD transverse manuals that employ this.... I know Ford has one)
Essentially, there is ONE input shaft, and TWO output shafts. Each output shaft drives the ring gear with its own pinion. And each pinion has its own ratio.
Read up here:
I dont think it can be done unless I'm willing to spin the alh over 6k. A member on here is pushing an alh past 7k with twin turbo's. A diesel (DRW) gearset+7k rpm petrol engine can run over 180 mph all day with next to no body modification. And they are relatively very easy to drive on the streets.Having put probably well over a half million miles collectively on A2 platform Golfs and Jettas, I would have to say I would be scared poopless to go that fast in one. They are actually remarkably stable for a small light(ish) weight car up to about 100, but after that they really get jittery. And I am not sure exactly where you think you could drive something like that anyway. Unless you are talking about some salt flat land speed record sort of thing, in which case you'll likely need a lot more than any streetable ALH could give you.
1) I haven't had the time to entertain that part of the swap as I'm in the learning stages and still not sure if I want to do the awd swap.A couple things of note, which I am sure you are aware.
1) You need to weld in a mk3/corrado tunnel to accommodate for the drive shaft, which may need to be trimmed
2) No Halidex system is "plug and play" you need to weld support brackets to the mk2 body, remove the fuel tank and get a fuel cell
3) One of the transmissions you can use is a 02C for transverse applications, I am not sure if it is geared for diesel and it does take quite a lot to get the gears swapped out.
4) A lot more that I am sure I am forgetting/do not know
Because Haldex systems are easier to find and much cheaper. Ive not come across a syncro car or parts in some time. But I do agree the syncro system makes more sense. With the Haldex, it's dead weight once the rear is done assisting the front once it gains traction. I know a controller could remedy this "problem" however all of it is adding up in the finance department-- The 4motion setup, Haldex controller, 02M tdi gearset and installation, is going to surpass the $2500 price mark.Why not just shoot for a syncro awd system?
Hmm. First you doubted that it can be done and now that you see it can be done, you are questioning where. 1/2 tracks are going to be the next wave of enthusiast motoring in the coming years. The first track in The States was just finished in South Georgia.And again, where do you plan to drive this car at 180+ MPH? And for all day? Is this a race car you are building? If so, a $2500 price is not going to get you much. The safety equipment for your body alone would be well beyond that. You post a [very short] video of some guy shooting up to a ridiculous speed for a very brief moment in time on a road that looks to be in Europe... the Autobahn is many orders of magnitude superior to our Interstates, even if not nearly as numerous. Not to mention the drivers there have to study for a year just to get a license. You simply cannot do that here with any degree of safety. Left lane campers, cell phone addicts, cars in poor repair, and giant semi trucks all over the place. Not to mention the countless RVs and such poking along.
Thanks for the contact. Depending on which way I go, he could be helpful.You should get in touch with Chris Korwan of Korwerks LLC. At one point he was bringing in containers of awd parts from
Europe. Find him on Facebook.
1671 County Road 1 (129.06 mi)
Westtown, NY 10998
You are a wealth of info!This sounds like fun.
The 02A/02J series all-wheel-drive gearbox is the 02C.
The 02C dates back to the 1990 g60 Passat in North America, and was still used in the mk4 era, with some minor changes for the new motor mounts.
The syncro AWD system from the 90's is passive, vs the active haldex from 10 years later.
It is possible to use the early 02C with the haldex, but the angle drive is a different ratio in the mk4 models.
The 02A has factory mounts for the mk2 from either the B3/B4 Passat or the Corrado, same for the hydro clutch.
The AWD needs a higher center tunnel, the higher tunnel was used on the B3/B4 Passat wagon, the B3 Passat syncro, corrados, and mk3's.
The 02M has been swapped into the mk2 enough times now that you can buy the swap parts and there are detailed walkthru's on the interweb on moving one of the transmission mounts on the subframe.
The 5spd 02M in the 180hp TT Quattro (DXW code) uses the same gearset as the TDI DRW code, but with different output shaft ratios, and is missing 6th gear. 6th gear from a DRW can be added to the DXW with very little work. You only need to add 1 cog, not a gearset.
Assuming 205/50/15 tires and a 4500rpm redline, the DXW with 6th would top out at 115mph. 70mph would be ~2725 rpm. Pretty high if you're looking for economy.
The DRW front wheel drive gears and shafts can be swapped into the 6spd quattro gearbox with zero issues, it's just a matter of swapping ring gears on the diff and changing the case.
Similarly, if you find a gasser 02C transmission, the 02J gearset can be swapped in.
The 02C and/or the 02M transmissions with the angle drive fit the ALH TDI with zero issues and there is no conflict with the turbo.
Here's a close up of an 02C on an ALH with a VNT15. Fits with a VNT 17/22 just as easily. It looks like the driveshaft would hit the vacuum actuator. It doesn't.
For your mk2 you'll probably need to build a custom downpipe, but factory parts are available for a downpipe on the mk4 chassis.
Nice aftermarket stuff too like this:
Darkside Developments in the UK
Operating the Haldex on a mk2 TDI swap is pretty simple with the Touch Motion from HPA. You don't need to worry about complicated wiring or functional ABS or any of that.
Everything, however, has a cost, and it all adds up.
Making a mk2 AWD is not an inexpensive task, unless you already have all of the parts.
One thing you can do for now, meaning you can get things running and driving, it's ok for the output from the angle drive just to free spin wihout a propshaft attached, meaning the AWD trans can be installed and you can install the rear end later.
My mk4 ALH TDI currently has a hybrid transmission in it:
02J gearset from the TDI (EBJ code, I think ~3.4 final)
02C case (CBC code) with angle drive from '92 Passat
6spd add on from EuroTuning
The angle drive output is currently free spinning.
The ALH has a VNT 17/22 and I have Darkside's downpipe.
I also have an angle drive from a mk4 with the correct ratios for the haldex, so I currently have the options
of installing a syncro or a haldex system.
And in a past life I built a syncro Corrado, and added the 6th gear cog to a 5spd Audi TT 180q.
The 180q also has the Touch Motion.
My ALH into mk1 swap was many many years ago.
|Found some crucial information for future readers -- While the DWX and DRW are both 02M transmissions, 4th & 6th share a drive gear, hence upgrading to a different gear ratio requires many parts to be changed/swapped out. It is easier to swap full gear sets from a DRW into a DWX if you are aiming for a lower final drive with 5th or 6th. Remember: a lower final drive lowers your overall torque curve in exchange for higher top speed.|
Do you think it's possible to swap only the r&p from a DRW into a DXW case to change the final drive's on both shafts?
I thought about it some and I would like to go AWD. The total weight of the 02M case, shaft, axles, and rear diff comes out to roughly another 220lbs of added weight with the 4motion system.
It is very useful information for newbies such like me.....180mph needs ~300hp (according to some online calculator) to overcome aero resistance in a mk2, plus whatever engine/trans drag will be, so say 350hp. That's alot for an ALH that's stock at 90hp. 150hp is bolt on easy. 200hp is doable. Beyond that takes more and more $$$.
What is the phrase? Speed costs money. How fast would you like to go?
The 02A trans from the mk3 has a 3.16 final drive, combine that with a 0.62 5th, and you'll hit 180mph at 4750 rpm.
The 02J in the mk4 has a 3.42? final. With the 0.62 180mph is ~5150 rpm.
The DXW from the TT has a final drive ratio of 63/19 for 5th and 6th gear, so 3.31
the DRW from the TDI has a final drive ratio of 68/26, or 2.61. Big difference.
If you're looking for acceleration, go with all wheel drive.
If you're looking for top speed, FWD to minimize the mechanical drag.
If the DXW & DRW have identical tdi gears, which parts of the DXW is causing the negative difference to that of the desired DRW's final drive?Let's clear up something:
DXW and DRW both 02M transmissions. DXW and DRW share the same gears. The DXW, in factory form, does not have 6th. The 6th gear from a DRW drops in where the spacer is on the DWX to give you a 6th gear.
The two transmissions vary in the final drives, so the two output shafts and the ring gear.
To turn a DRW or any 02M FWD transmission into an AWD transmission requires changing the case half that houses the differential, the differential, and adding the angle drive. That's pretty much it.
In other words, to make a diesel friendly AWD 02M: take the AWD diff, removing the gasser ring gear, installing the diesel ring gear, and moving the diesel gears (all 3 shafts) into the AWD case, and closing up the transmission (I'm skipping the shimming the bearings part).
If you want to change the ring and pinion in an 02M, it's 1 ring and 2 pinions, meaning rebuilding 2 shafts.
To swap a 6th gear means changing out 6th and 4th, a bit more complicated than the 02J.