Manual swap basics

[J Mullet]

I am hoping some of you who have done the manual transmission swap can help me out. I am thinking of doing that instead of rebuilding the 5hp19 GMR that I just took out of my wagon. I think that the actual doing the swap will be OK, as there seems to be sevaral threads on this, and a few good videos on YouTube, but I have some questions about the early stages as I haven't come across a clear path forward in the threads. I understand that dutchautoparts no longer provides complete kits, as per an email conversation I had with Frans.

1. Which vehicles am I looking for to salvage the pedals and linkages?

2. Does one have to get the manual transmission from Europe (dutchautoparts), or are there ones that can be pulled out of a VW that was sold in North america that I could salvage. And if this is the case, how does one know if the bolts will all line up etc?.

3. Related to quesiton #2, I see quite a few codes being tossed around, "GGB" "FHN" "DUK" etc. I am assuming these are the Identifying code that is stamped on the transmission plate , (Mine is GMR) correct? If this is the case, Is there a way of knowing which vehicles have that transmission without crawling underneath? There must be a list somewhere.

Perhaps this information is in one of the many threads that I found on the subject, however it seems like a daunting task to sift through the miriad of posts that don't answer my questions. I am hoping someone can shine the light for me!

 

[oilhammer]

The three letter code is the specific trans code... so the ZF 01V automatic as bolted to the BHW engine is a GMR. The manuals will have the same type of system (the gearbox may be a 01E, but that is the type of trans, the letter code is specific to its use).

There were no manual B5 TDIs sold here. We did get gas ones, the 1.8t AWM engine and the 2.8L V6 ATQ engine were the two versions sold alongside the BHW. However neither is geared as high as the GMRs, although the ATQ version would be better, but still far from ideal.

All the 4 cyl use the same bolt pattern, gas or diesel. The V6 is different, but in the longitudinal cars, the transmissions (both automatic and manual) have provisions for both... if you look on your 01V automatic you just took out, you'll see some extra bolt holes in the bellhousing... those are for the V6.

Apparently even in Europe, the higher output diesels were not common with manuals in B5s (from someone I trust who lived there and is also a bit of a diesel Volkswagen enthusiast... he said more basic 1.9L+manual B5s were more common, and they were geared lower because they were weaker engines).

 

[zzdiesel]

Cascade German does advertise a manual transmission.

 

[oilhammer]

Account Suspended

 

[Zambee500]

Account Suspended

Weird. When I click that link it shows account suspended. But when i start at cascadegerman.com it works for me.

He does sell "New Old Stock" 5-speed transmissions with the EEN transmission and LuK DMF clutch kit and Malone Stage 2 tune:

Deluxe kit:

Automatic to Manual Swap, B5 B5.5 TDI Deluxe – Cascade German Parts

www.cascadegerman.com

 

[Zambee500]

And the basic kit without the tune. It includes list of what's not included from Deluxe kit. Also, there is a list of what parts must be sourced elsewhere (e.g., from a salvage yard).

Automatic to Manual Swap, B5 B5.5 TDI – Cascade German Parts

www.cascadegerman.com

 

[Windex]

Do a lot of research on choice of clutch and flywheel.

Mine is a 6spd, so a 5spd has different requirements.

Both 5 and 6 spd transaxles (Manual) in these cars have seen multiple threads about broken synchronizers when paired with SMF (solid) flywheels.

Any manual B5.5 passat will be a fine donation source for the pedals and shift linkages. Also grab the transmission mount brackets and mounts.

 

[PickleRick]

Do you have vcds or know someone who does? Even if you get a swap kit that includes every last nut and bolt, send off your ECU, etc you're still going to need to use vcds to set some coding for the 5 speed yourself.

 

[caffeine]

Do a lot of research on choice of clutch and flywheel.

Mine is a 6spd, so a 5spd has different requirements.

Both 5 and 6 spd transaxles (Manual) in these cars have seen multiple threads about broken synchronizers when paired with SMF (solid) flywheels.

Any manual B5.5 passat will be a fine donation source for the pedals and shift linkages. Also grab the transmission mount brackets and mounts.

My understanding is that any clutch that works with one should function with both, DMF is best in either case. Some require a bellhousing spacer and some don't.

 

[Zambee500]

The LuK DMF clutch kit that Cascade German includes in their deluxe kit is really good, in my opinion. Like buttery smooth. CG also sells it separately for ~$500 if you source the 5-sp manual transmission elsewhere, which seems very affordable compared to other options. I drive it fairly spirited on a stage 2 Malone tune, although I don't mash down on the accelerator in 4th or 5th gear at 1000 RPM. I tend to run RPMs a bit high thru gear shifting, which also helps with some power drop-off between 2nd & 3rd (or 3rd and 4th?) at lower RPM gear shifting. And the LuK setup has held up very well for 2 years / 15k miles with my FHN gearbox. So far, very happy with the setup.

 

[J Mullet]

Great information everyone, thanks.

 

[PickleRick]

Only people in the south mash pedals and buttons. The rest of our great nation will only mashe potatoes.

The LuK DMF clutch kit that Cascade German includes in their deluxe kit is really good, in my opinion. Like buttery smooth. CG also sells it separately for ~$500 if you source the 5-sp manual transmission elsewhere, which seems very affordable compared to other options. I drive it fairly spirited on a stage 2 Malone tune, although I don't mash down on the accelerator in 4th or 5th gear at 1000 RPM. I tend to run RPMs a bit high thru gear shifting, which also helps with some power drop-off between 2nd & 3rd (or 3rd and 4th?) at lower RPM gear shifting. And the LuK setup has held up very well for 2 years / 15k miles with my FHN gearbox. So far, very happy with the setup.

 

[Zambee500]

Only people in the south mash pedals and buttons. The rest of our great nation will only mashe potatoes.

Mashed taters are good too....

 

[PickleRick]

Mashed taters are good too....

I agree 100%.

 

[MEgearhead]

Question #1. If you're planning on sourcing parts locally, it's easiest to just find a 04 or 05 Passat manual and take the brake pedal, clutch pedal, and pivot pin. If there are good clutch safety (black small box with pigtail above clutch pedal) and cruise (larger blue switch in front of the clutch pedal) switches, get those and part of the wire harness that plugs into them. If you can find a V6 04-05 manual Passat, you will have all the parts you need (pedals, clutch line, master/slave cylinders, switches, shifter, trans mount bracket, half shafts). If you don't care about the ratios (DVZ trans code), you can even use the trans. I believe PickleRick did this. I drive on the highway a bit and wouldn't want the high revs at 70+ mph.

Likely there are other b5 series cars you could also get the pedals from, but it might be a little tricky.
I think one member had to swap the bracket also because the pedals wouldn't fit the bracket on his car. The VAG part #s are as follows:
Clutch Pedal 8D1721316K
Brake Pedal 8D1721140B

Question #2. Already answered by Oilhammer. I've heard there are some differences in the output flanges if you get an older 4cyl gas trans, but you don't want that anyway.

Question #3.
The difference is in the ratios. You will not find a GGB, FHN, or DUK in a US junkyard unless you just happened to find a junked previously swapped TDI. (Never going to happen). I used an FHN from Frans. Here's the ratios for some models:

Code, Final drive, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th
FHN/GGB, 3.444, 3.778, 2.176, 1.360, 0.903, 0.686
DUK, 3.556, 3.500, 1.944, 1.222, 0.875, 0.686
EEN, 3.700, 3.500, 1.944, 1.226, 0.838, 0.683
DVZ, 3.700, 3.500, 1.944, 1.300, 0.983, 0.789
GMR (TDI auto), 3.09, 3.665, 1.999, 1.000, 0.742

When I started to get ready to do the swap, I felt like you did about the information not really answering my questions, but it's actually all here on the forums, just not all in one place. We don't mind answering questions either.

 

[PickleRick]

I do have the dvz in my Passat. At 75 mph I'm at 3000 rpms. I would care about the high-ish rpms but it returned 43 mpg every 4 hour trip I made to the beach, my mom lived there so there were many many weekend fishing trips. Worked perfectly for my daily driver.


If I lived in or near Atlanta like @Zambee500 then a dvz wouldn't work for me, I'd have the tallest trans I could find. 65mph posted highways around Atlanta means you need to do 95 or you'll get run off the road.


I also found the Witbread smf and south bend clutch was an amazing set up.


I hate Atlanta.

 

[oilhammer]

3k at 75 is pretty high... that's worse than any stock TDI I think, even the ALH+01M although it's been a minute since I've driven one of those down the highway.

BHW is 2500 @ 80
BEW w/ auto is 2600 @ 80
ALH w/ manual is almost 2900 at 80

 

[Zambee500]

This is a great response with a ton of useful information. Well done.

I'll also mention (again) that the Cascade German kits - if you review the webpages, it lists a ton of parts numbers including what you need to source from salvage yards. It's also great reference pages if you want to source those items used or elsewhere new.

Question #1. If you're planning on sourcing parts locally, it's easiest to just find a 04 or 05 Passat manual and take the brake pedal, clutch pedal, and pivot pin. If there are good clutch safety (black small box with pigtail above clutch pedal) and cruise (larger blue switch in front of the clutch pedal) switches, get those and part of the wire harness that plugs into them. If you can find a V6 04-05 manual Passat, you will have all the parts you need (pedals, clutch line, master/slave cylinders, switches, shifter, trans mount bracket, half shafts). If you don't care about the ratios (DVZ trans code), you can even use the trans. I believe PickleRick did this. I drive on the highway a bit and wouldn't want the high revs at 70+ mph.

Likely there are other b5 series cars you could also get the pedals from, but it might be a little tricky.
I think one member had to swap the bracket also because the pedals wouldn't fit the bracket on his car. The VAG part #s are as follows:
Clutch Pedal 8D1721316K
Brake Pedal 8D1721140B

Question #2. Already answered by Oilhammer. I've heard there are some differences in the output flanges if you get an older 4cyl gas trans, but you don't want that anyway.

Question #3.
The difference is in the ratios. You will not find a GGB, FHN, or DUK in a US junkyard unless you just happened to find a junked previously swapped TDI. (Never going to happen). I used an FHN from Frans. Here's the ratios for some models:

Code, Final drive, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th
FHN/GGB, 3.444, 3.778, 2.176, 1.360, 0.903, 0.686
DUK, 3.556, 3.500, 1.944, 1.222, 0.875, 0.686
EEN, 3.700, 3.500, 1.944, 1.226, 0.838, 0.683
DVZ, 3.700, 3.500, 1.944, 1.300, 0.983, 0.789
GMR (TDI auto), 3.09, 3.665, 1.999, 1.000, 0.742

When I started to get ready to do the swap, I felt like you did about the information not really answering my questions, but it's actually all here on the forums, just not all in one place. We don't mind answering questions either.

 

[zzdiesel]

Getriebekennbuchstaben (GKB) von VAG Fahrzeugen mit TDI Motor

This from Franz. All manual tdi gear box ratios.

 

[PickleRick]

3000 rpms is a lot for an average American TDI but I'm sure more than a few autobahnen drivers are cutting above that on a daily work commute...well above 80 MPH obviously. My mpg was similar to the factory slush box so I had no complaints for my usage. Having less than 600 bucks in the transmission/axles/pedals/shifter was also nice. I parted it out for a few months then got 200 bucks in scrap. My real only out of pocket expenses was the clutch kit and tune.

My TDI Runner was @2500 rpms at 70 but was stupid slow in city traffic and unhappy at more than a few common city/back road speed limits. A regear now has me closer to 2800 at 70 but much much happier around the city. I don't often do more than 80. If I have to speed to get to where I'm going on time then I need to work on my time management skills.

 

[vwztips]

Son #1 is running a 6 speed from an A4 B7 Quattro (02X) which was mated to a 2.0 gasser. It now has a BHW and running the LUK 228mm DMF from Cascade. Very smooth and has been running fine for 20 months now. RPMs in 6th are equal to 5th in FHN. Gearbox feels smoother than the 5 speeds.

Son #2 has an 05 B5.5 wagon running a front wheel drive NSZ (01X) which came in euro A4 B7 and maybe B8's. Has a 3.3 final drive and 0.575 6th. Used a RS4 clutch with a DMF from the A4 2.0t application. Super smooth and easy to drive. At 2000 RPM's running 78-80 MPH. Very happy with the results for both.

FWIW, Cascade has the 01X Euro gearboxes and is putting together a kit to fit the 01X to B5.5 Passat chassis.

 

[yadic]

I am hoping some of you who have done the manual transmission swap can help me out. I am thinking of doing that instead of rebuilding the 5hp19 GMR that I just took out of my wagon. I think that the actual doing the swap will be OK, as there seems to be sevaral threads on this, and a few good videos on YouTube, but I have some questions about the early stages as I haven't come across a clear path forward in the threads. I understand that dutchautoparts no longer provides complete kits, as per an email conversation I had with Frans.

1. Which vehicles am I looking for to salvage the pedals and linkages?

2. Does one have to get the manual transmission from Europe (dutchautoparts), or are there ones that can be pulled out of a VW that was sold in North america that I could salvage. And if this is the case, how does one know if the bolts will all line up etc?.

3. Related to quesiton #2, I see quite a few codes being tossed around, "GGB" "FHN" "DUK" etc. I am assuming these are the Identifying code that is stamped on the transmission plate , (Mine is GMR) correct? If this is the case, Is there a way of knowing which vehicles have that transmission without crawling underneath? There must be a list somewhere.

Perhaps this information is in one of the many threads that I found on the subject, however it seems like a daunting task to sift through the miriad of posts that don't answer my questions Apartments for rent in Dekwaneh. I am hoping someone can shine the light for me!

i’ve decided to keep my car, I’m gonna swap a manual tranny into my car and get rid of the auto. Now, I know most of what to buy, but my only question is selecting a manual tranny. Now, I can go realoem and look at part numbers, but since there’s a lot of options, which tranny should I select that doesn’t have a lot of problems? I know that the earlier transmissions had problems with reverse, but i’m sure it’s been changed since then. And looking through realoem, I noticed that there was sequential manual transmissions that were classified as a manual tranny, but I thought sequential transmissions were automatic, where you flick the little pads on the wheel or the gear selector to shift. I must just be stupid, but if someone could tell me which one has the least amount of problems, or problems that aren’t significant.

 

[vwztips]

The least amount of problems would be to buy a new one from Cascade or rebuilt one from the guy in TX that rebuilds 6 speeds. The easiest to deal with as far as install and probably least problems overall is a 5 speed. However buying a used gearbox can have hidden gremlins that can either pop up immediately or after 50k miles. Or it could go for a very long time.

My first conversion 14+ years ago I did like Picklerick and used a DVZ 5 speed from a from a V6 Passat. Not ideal gearing but they are cheap and will get you going and it if it tanks, you are not out of a lot of money.

 

[PickleRick]

All your used donor b5.5 transmissions have the same issue I do, i had far less miles me back in the early 2000s.. your newest off the line will be 05.

 

[MEgearhead]

You have 3 main options for manual swaps:

1. 5sp 012 (b5 audi/vw) such as DUK, DVZ, EEN, FHN, GGB. As has already been mentioned, this is typically the easiest and lowest cost path. The Levi Jefferies YouTube video is this path. It's also in some threads here but in bits and pieces.

2. 6sp 01E (b5, b6 audi/vw) such as DQS, FRF, GVS. This path is the same work, but takes a little more effort in sourcing the parts, and will be more expensive. The Uberhare thread is this path.

3. 6sp 01X (late b6, b7 audi) such as GVD. This path takes a bit more work, fabrication of a custom cross member (or some body work to retrofit the b7 cross member), and will require a bit of research to get all the correct parts. I would guess this might be the most expensive, but availability/cost of the actual trans will determine that. The ImperfektMechaniker Ultimate Daily Driver thread is this path.

As far as longevity, I can only offer my personal opinion which is: longevity is going to depend more on donor parts condition and the combination of parts you choose than on the model of transmission you choose. For example, a SMF and 6sp may not last very long. I've never tried it so I can't say for sure, but I'm not going to try it anyway.

As vwztips states, the Cascade German link previously provided is mostly new parts so seems like it would give the best in longevity. However, if additional power is in the future I question the longevity of the LUK 228mm clutch. Just my opinion.

Spend a good part of your decision effort on clutch choice, which will depend on trans style you choose among other considerations. I think you are more likely to have issues with the clutch, or clutch caused trans issues before you have issues solely with the trans.

All the information is here in this forum. You only need to search for it, spend some time reading, and make your decision.

 

[caffeine]

3. 6sp 01X (late b6, b7 audi) such as GVD. This path takes a bit more work, fabrication of a custom cross member (or some body work to retrofit the b7 cross member), and will require a bit of research to get all the correct parts. I would guess this might be the most expensive, but availability/cost of the actual trans will determine that. The ImperfektMechaniker Ultimate Daily Driver thread is this path.

I'd argue this can potentially be the cheapest option, especially over time, since it has the best gearing of any compatible transmission that was sold in North America (meaning cost of the transmission is going to be cheaper than anything from overseas). Caveat is that if you're not doing the custom work yourself, the crossmember or custom mount brackets will likely cost a lot to have made for you. Only other caveat is that the B6/7 shifter will have to be combined with a plastic shifter housing from a B5/C5, potentially increasing the cost (or if your local pick n pull has both cars in stock, combine them in the yard and pay once).

Other than mounting, it can use the same clutches as the other options, same hydraulics as the other options, B6/7 manual axles are a direct fit and pretty common (including 5-speed B6 axles), and dealing with the lack of speed sensor is a matter of flipping a bit in the cluster EEPROM (free if you have a K-line cable and are handy with computers).

 

[J Mullet]

Question #1. If you're planning on sourcing parts locally, it's easiest to just find a 04 or 05 Passat manual and take the brake pedal, clutch pedal, and pivot pin. If there are good clutch safety (black small box with pigtail above clutch pedal) and cruise (larger blue switch in front of the clutch pedal) switches, get those and part of the wire harness that plugs into them. If you can find a V6 04-05 manual Passat, you will have all the parts you need (pedals, clutch line, master/slave cylinders, switches, shifter, trans mount bracket, half shafts). If you don't care about the ratios (DVZ trans code), you can even use the trans. I believe PickleRick did this. I drive on the highway a bit and wouldn't want the high revs at 70+ mph.

Likely there are other b5 series cars you could also get the pedals from, but it might be a little tricky.
I think one member had to swap the bracket also because the pedals wouldn't fit the bracket on his car. The VAG part #s are as follows:
Clutch Pedal 8D1721316K
Brake Pedal 8D1721140B

Question #2. Already answered by Oilhammer. I've heard there are some differences in the output flanges if you get an older 4cyl gas trans, but you don't want that anyway.

Question #3.
The difference is in the ratios. You will not find a GGB, FHN, or DUK in a US junkyard unless you just happened to find a junked previously swapped TDI. (Never going to happen). I used an FHN from Frans. Here's the ratios for some models:

Code, Final drive, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th
FHN/GGB, 3.444, 3.778, 2.176, 1.360, 0.903, 0.686
DUK, 3.556, 3.500, 1.944, 1.222, 0.875, 0.686
EEN, 3.700, 3.500, 1.944, 1.226, 0.838, 0.683
DVZ, 3.700, 3.500, 1.944, 1.300, 0.983, 0.789
GMR (TDI auto), 3.09, 3.665, 1.999, 1.000, 0.742

When I started to get ready to do the swap, I felt like you did about the information not really answering my questions, but it's actually all here on the forums, just not all in one place. We don't mind answering questions either.

What a gold mine, thanks. I like the idea of using an 04-05 transmission from a gas, as it seems the most economical. I've had this car since 2009, and it's body is not in the best shape, lots of rust and it looks like a beater. I use (used) it to commute the 40km (mostly highway) to work and back and ocasionally on a longer road trip.


Considering this, I am not overly eager to drop 4K USD into it to get it back up and running as would be the case with a Cascade German kit, tempting though it is. I have not gotten a reply from Frans, but I could send another inquiry.

You mentioned the V6 04/05 as a good donor, what about the 1.8T? Not a DVZ in these? Would this work or would it have to come out of a V6? For example This one.

My options then as I see it are

1. Finding a donor gasser from a yard to get the manual transmission and other gadgets needed. Cost unknown but maybe as low as 1k USD. Also somewhat challenging considering my relatively remote location, zero scrap yards within a 400 mile radius.

2. Rebuilding the 01V auto and crossing my fingers (about 1kUSD)

3. Pull out the good parts and scrap it and maybe look for another or say goodbye to the TDI. (I'd be sad of this, as it is very economical to run especially considering its fueled Waste Vegetable Oil)

Thanks

 

[J Mullet]

Do you have vcds or know someone who does? Even if you get a swap kit that includes every last nut and bolt, send off your ECU, etc you're still going to need to use vcds to set some coding for the 5 speed yourself.

I have not given much thought on this part of the swap.... I do not have a vcds (I'll research what that is). Do you have a thread or blog that follows your process of swaping with a DVZ transmission?

 

[J Mullet]

You have 3 main options for manual swaps:

1. 5sp 012 (b5 audi/vw) such as DUK, DVZ, EEN, FHN, GGB. As has already been mentioned, this is typically the easiest and lowest cost path. The Levi Jefferies YouTube video is this path. It's also in some threads here but in bits and pieces.

2. 6sp 01E (b5, b6 audi/vw) such as DQS, FRF, GVS. This path is the same work, but takes a little more effort in sourcing the parts, and will be more expensive. The Uberhare thread is this path.

3. 6sp 01X (late b6, b7 audi) such as GVD. This path takes a bit more work, fabrication of a custom cross member (or some body work to retrofit the b7 cross member), and will require a bit of research to get all the correct parts. I would guess this might be the most expensive, but availability/cost of the actual trans will determine that. The ImperfektMechaniker Ultimate Daily Driver thread is this path.

As far as longevity, I can only offer my personal opinion which is: longevity is going to depend more on donor parts condition and the combination of parts you choose than on the model of transmission you choose. For example, a SMF and 6sp may not last very long. I've never tried it so I can't say for sure, but I'm not going to try it anyway.

As vwztips states, the Cascade German link previously provided is mostly new parts so seems like it would give the best in longevity. However, if additional power is in the future I question the longevity of the LUK 228mm clutch. Just my opinion.

Spend a good part of your decision effort on clutch choice, which will depend on trans style you choose among other considerations. I think you are more likely to have issues with the clutch, or clutch caused trans issues before you have issues solely with the trans.

All the information is here in this forum. You only need to search for it, spend some time reading, and make your decision.

Thank you for putting up some signage on the different paths and related threads here. This is very helpful and may have answered some of the questions I posed in my reply that I just posted.

 

[caffeine]

A 1.8T donor is less suitable for two reasons. 1) The gearing of the transmission is lower than the V6 DVZ, meaning your engine revs will be even higher, and 2) one of the transmission mount brackets is different on the 1.8T transmission, and won't bolt up to the factory subframe in the TDI chassis. Either a V6 5-speed mount would have to be sourced, or you'd have to use the subframe from the 1.8T donor.