Malone-tuned DSG TDI

vinistois

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 12, 2009
Location
Burnaby
TDI
2010 golf wagon tdi
yes, I've finally done it!

My experience:

Malone's didn't have a tune yet available for the 2010 DSG TDI. It was very well explained to me that the DSG needs a completely different tune than the 6MT, because of how the engine interacts with the transmission. I offered my DSG as a test mule for his program, and we went for it!

We started out with what he called a +10 tune. So roughly 10 HP over stock. He pulled my ecu, pried it open, and installed the program. We put it back in and went for a drive. During the testing, I didn't really notice the extra power. We were just doing long smooth 3rd gear pulls until the tranny shifts into 4th. He was concerned about the transmission and the smoothness of the shift, and he watched the parameters on vag-com while I drove.

I drove with the +10 for a couple of days. Immediately on my drive home I noticed a big difference. If I didn't know better, I would have guessed it was 20 extra HP. From a standstill on flat, dry pavement, the ESP light flashes the whole way through 1st and 2nd gear. It hardly ever flashed in 1st gear before, even in the rain. Highway performance was MUCH better, and the car didn't seem to fall flat past 3000rpms like it did before.

I went back to have him install the "+20" tune. I wanted to jump straight to +30, but he wanted to be cautious and just see how the car handles the +20. Same procedure, just about the same result. Now the car is really hauling some ass. Slow-speed performance is a bit improved, but highway performance is a LOT improved. It just pulls like a train. I was taking it up a long steep grade, 3000-4000 rpms in 5th gear. Man it was just roasting up that hill. About 10-15 seconds in, the EGT's got too high and the ECU started cycling back the power. I tried to replicate this behavior on level road, but never got there... by the time 10-15 seconds go by, you're in 6th and going far too fast for american soil.

I'm going back this week for the +30 tune. Malone's was expecting this EGT limiting, and its a good sign that the car is still protecting itself like it should from excessively high exhaust gas temperature.

The only other side effect so far has been some strange shifting in a specific circumstance. That is, If I have the accelerator to the floor, and shift before 3000 rpms. If I do this, there is a slight delay, like power is being pulled for a moment before the shift. I reported this issue to Malone's after the first tune, and he did something that really reduced the issue for the +20 tune. Its still there, but if I didn't point it out, you wouldn't notice it.

Malone's is absolutely top notch. The service is nothing short of excellent. I recommend Malone's to anyone, and am very pleased I chose them. He promised to continue working on my tune until everything is 100% perfect.

Sorry to those who were waiting for a dyno plot. I just can't justify the extra expense, I would rather just enjoy the tune and put money into more mods. I may put it on the dyno eventually, but don't hold your breath!
 

2010JSWDSG

Member
Joined
Jul 30, 2010
Location
Wichita, KS
TDI
2010 JSW TDI
What was the ambient temperature when the EGT limits were reached? I don't know where Burnaby is. Looking forward to the +30 tests! I would think at some point Mark would post plots on his website for advertising puposes...
 

vinistois

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 12, 2009
Location
Burnaby
TDI
2010 golf wagon tdi
Ambient was about 25C. Its a really steep, really long hill. Speed was 140-160 km/hr. I'm actually not surprised at all the EGT limit was reached, seriously its like we were being propelled by rockets. I used to boot around in a 350Z that didn't pull this hard.

I think I saw something about posting plots on the website on his to-do list ;)

I wish we could have some sort of can-bus gauge system to display EGT's. This car has one of the most sophisticated EGT feedback systems out there, if we could just tap into the data!
 

dzcad90

Rolex & gin
Joined
Mar 15, 1999
Location
Joliet, IL USA
TDI
Jetta - 97 (RIP), '03 (Sold), '09
The only other side effect so far has been some strange shifting in a specific circumstance. That is, If I have the accelerator to the floor, and shift before 3000 rpms. If I do this, there is a slight delay, like power is being pulled for a moment before the shift. I reported this issue to Malone's after the first tune, and he did something that really reduced the issue for the +20 tune. Its still there, but if I didn't point it out, you wouldn't notice it.
I think this would be expected. The TDI makes it's torque spike lower in the RPM range. The DSG asks the engine to stop producing torque when it needs to change gears. With your foot to the floor and the DSG asking it to stop producing torque, I'd expect a little delay.

Sounds good though. Wish I were that brave!!
 
T

Timujin

Guest
This is great info. Thanks for testing on behalf of the DSG portion of our forum.

Sincerely.
 

BTL

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2005
Location
'Burbs of Chicago
TDI
2013 PGM Jetta TDI Premium DSG
Wish you didn't need to pull the ECM, but I'm getting the itch to do something. I think RC has something in the works too. Exciting...
 

vinistois

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 12, 2009
Location
Burnaby
TDI
2010 golf wagon tdi
It looks like we're going to end up hitting the dyno soon, but no promises as we're both busy guys.
 

Cleenlivin

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2008
Location
So Cal
TDI
2009 Jetta TDI Sedan (DSG) boughtback, 2004 Jetta TDI Sedan (Tiptronic), 2004 Jetta TDI Sedan (5 speed)
Update Please......

I have an 09' Jetta sedan with DSG and wanted to know if you can provide an update on your experience withe the Malone Tune on your DSG equipped car. My car will be out of warranty soon and I have been considering getting a tune. I know Malone does good work and really knows his business but I am still concerned over the ability of the DSG to handle the increased horsepower/torque.

Thanks.
 
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vinistois

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 12, 2009
Location
Burnaby
TDI
2010 golf wagon tdi
Cleenlivin,

My car is soon to be in the hands of HPA to sort out the DSG issues. The DSG can take it - make no mistake. HPA builds DSG's to handle double what our cars can generate, just with software tweaks. Operating pressures inside the DSG can be raised to drastically increase the clutchs' strength.

Apparently problems arise when your engine software doesn't match nicely to your DSG software.

The Malone tunes, stage one and stage two, did cause dsg issues for me, and continue to do so. However, the issues occur only in a specific set of circumstances which I can avoid in practice. Basically I don't short-shift it at high load, and I have no issues. If I do, I have to lift the throttle a bit.

Mark has been more than supportive in helping me work out the issue, but at the cost of lowering torque in that rpm band. I'd rather keep the power, and convince the DSG to stop being such a b%*ch.

Soon my car will undergo all kinds of dissection and experimentation and I will report back!
 

gergg

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 6, 2011
Location
Georgia
TDI
2012 Passat TDI 6M
The Malone tunes, stage one and stage two, did cause dsg issues for me, and continue to do so. However, the issues occur only in a specific set of circumstances which I can avoid in practice. Basically I don't short-shift it at high load, and I have no issues. If I do, I have to lift the throttle a bit.

Mark has been more than supportive in helping me work out the issue, but at the cost of lowering torque in that rpm band. I'd rather keep the power, and convince the DSG to stop being such a b%*ch.
So where are you at now relative to horsepower and torque? When you say short-shift causes problems, are you in manual mode, and if so what rpm are you shifting at that causes the problem? If you just let the dsg go about its business would you have any issues?
 

Cleenlivin

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2008
Location
So Cal
TDI
2009 Jetta TDI Sedan (DSG) boughtback, 2004 Jetta TDI Sedan (Tiptronic), 2004 Jetta TDI Sedan (5 speed)
Thanks....

Vinistois,

Thank you for the update. I'm sure myself and the other members who own DSG equipped cars are all considering these upgrade options and appreciate you sharing your experiences.

I wonder if there is some way you could pursuade some of the vendors your working with to make you some kind of deal since your "treading in uncharted waters" so to speak by using their products. These vendors could see huge profits based on the outcome and future sales potential your shared experiences can generate.
 

vinistois

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 12, 2009
Location
Burnaby
TDI
2010 golf wagon tdi
I'm not sure about numbers just yet. I am likely going to stick with the Malone tune, unless there is some serious incompatibility with the dsg tune.

If I am in any mode, have the pedal 3/4 down or more, and the shift occurs between 3000-3500 rpm, It will buck and shift a little hard. What is happening is the engine is producing more torque than the transmission will accept for a shift, so the DSG ECU commands it to reduce torque to complete the shift.

The issue does occur during normal driving, under high-load scenarios. Like if I have a loaded car, or a steep incline. In those situations even half-throttle shifts will buck.

All in all it is not really acceptable for the long term. I would caution those with DSG TDI's to stay on their stock tune until they are ready to tune both the engine and transmission controllers in harmony.

The guys at HPA believe the transmission is capable of a much higher torque limit, and I am inclined to believe them. We will find out.

My other issue is the EGT limiter. Again, if I sustain high load for more than 15-20 seconds, the engine will pull back power in slow repeating pulses. Mark has already raised the EGT limiter but we'll see what else can be done about that. I will no doubt eventually be modifying the exhaust path in unmentionable ways, which should lower EGT.
 

vinistois

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 12, 2009
Location
Burnaby
TDI
2010 golf wagon tdi
Vinistois,

Thank you for the update. I'm sure myself and the other members who own DSG equipped cars are all considering these upgrade options and appreciate you sharing your experiences.

I wonder if there is some way you could pursuade some of the vendors your working with to make you some kind of deal since your "treading in uncharted waters" so to speak by using their products. These vendors could see huge profits based on the outcome and future sales potential your shared experiences can generate.
haha, hey now don't blow my cover! Yes yes hopefully I can not only get a discounted rate, but also have some input to the product from my experience and the opinions on this forum.
 

vinistois

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 12, 2009
Location
Burnaby
TDI
2010 golf wagon tdi
hey guys I'm sorry but I will not be posting dyno plots.

I've done some things, and seen some stuff, and now everything is changed.

Thanks to Malone for the great service!
 

vinistois

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 12, 2009
Location
Burnaby
TDI
2010 golf wagon tdi
I'm sorry guys, its complicated, its not fair for me to get into it on this forum.

when there are significant developments I will start another thread!
 
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