Malone Stage 3 Rail Pressure High

[JHands]

Greetings. Had Malone Stage 3 with a CR170 and Rawtek weight reduction kit on my 6 speed JSW with no issues. That car was totaled. I pulled the turbo off and had it put on our 2012 Audi A3 TDI. Same Rawtek kit. Malone Stage 3 tune.
Car is constantly going into limp mode from P0088 rail pressure too high. It had a stage 2 on it before, and there were no issues
Ran logs with guys at Cascade German and they found during higher rpm pulls, the ecu requests around 1900 bar and change, but is provided 1960ish: The VW hard cap is 1950.
Malone is saying I need a CP3 to stabilize rail pressures. I’m saying that’s unacceptable as there are many running this tune without issues, so I’m turning here for advice.
FWIW the HPFP is a brand new Bosch that was installed with my TB at 100k. Has around 10k miles on it.

HALP!

 

[JHands]

Is this forum dead? Is everyone on Facebook now?

 

[Shoveltrev]

i had cjaa throw p0088 and the rail pressure sensor was biased . read 33 bar key on engine off . wasnt aenough to trip the circuit code for the sensor but was enough to tip the psi over on the top end .

 

[oilhammer]

I was gonna say, maybe try a new rail pressure sensor... maybe it is not reading as accurately as is needed given you've modified the car to the point that the margin for that value is essentially gone. You may also have a rail pressure regulator that is borderline for the same reason.

 

[JHands]

I was gonna say, maybe try a new rail pressure sensor... maybe it is not reading as accurately as is needed given you've modified the car to the point that the margin for that value is essentially gone. You may also have a rail pressure regulator that is borderline for the same reason.

Might as well just bite the bullet and replace the rail as a unit then, if it could be the sensor or regulator. How much effort is involved in the swap? I can’t get ahold of my guru and I start a new job soonish. Need this thing road worthy.

 

[JHands]

i had cjaa throw p0088 and the rail pressure sensor was biased . read 33 bar key on engine off . wasnt aenough to trip the circuit code for the sensor but was enough to tip the psi over on the top end .

Where in VCDS can I access the fuel logs? When I had it done before, I had Matt over at Cascade German go for a ride with me and do it. I’m curious to see if my sensor has a similar bias.

 

[oilhammer]

Well the rail does come with both the regulator and sensor, but it will be a lot more work to change it... the electric bits are easy, they just screw on to each end. Not sure how the pricing ends up, though... buying one part complete vs. buying two parts. The rail assembly isn't cheap. I think they are around $450.

 

[Shoveltrev]

id parts has that rail for 283.90. the only two issues i have had is that pressure sensor seals with a knife edge seal and i had one refuse to seal. also that regulator in the duramax application will bypass fuel if not torqued properly. only reasons i would advocate a rail. i usually let the customer make the call'

 

[JHands]

I’ve been led to believe the rail needs to come out and be placed in a vice to torque the sensor and regulator down to spec anyways, so if the rail assembly is 280 I might as well just do the whole thing . Just wondering if I should wait for my side hustling TDI guru to do it or do it myself.

 

[sauron18]

I have a CJAA Malone stage 3 Xman CR170. My car give me P0087 rail pressure to low. Should i get a new rail pressure sensor and regulator too? My car was stage 2 and never did this to me. Now when i do a WOT then it goes into limp mode and P0087 fault. At some point in the 3k rpm the actual fuel pressure goes way below the requested fuel pressure.

 

[JHands]

Replaced whole rail assembly to include new regulator and pressure sensor. Still throwing the rail pressure too high code and going limp. What the f@&k! 400 dollar experiment part fun wow

 

[jetta 97]

Replaced whole rail assembly to include new regulator and pressure sensor. Still throwing the rail pressure too high code and going limp. What the f@&k! 400 dollar experiment part fun wow

I had few people that has this problem with Malone tune. I think something is with Tune not with car , but I may be wrong.

 

[calimustang]

I have a CJAA Malone stage 3 Xman CR170. My car give me P0087 rail pressure to low. Should i get a new rail pressure sensor and regulator too? My car was stage 2 and never did this to me. Now when i do a WOT then it goes into limp mode and P0087 fault. At some point in the 3k rpm the actual fuel pressure goes way below the requested fuel pressure.

Do you know what fuel meter valve you are currently have on your CP3? That’s if you have Cp3. I had exact issue and I replaced fuel meter valve from incorrect one to a correct one and problem went away with 2micron’s assistance.

 

[sauron18]

Do you know what fuel meter valve you are currently have on your CP3? That’s if you have Cp3. I had exact issue and I replaced fuel meter valve from incorrect one to a correct one and problem went away with 2micron’s assistance.

My car is CP4 and it have the upgraded fuel metering valve the one Darkside sells but i brought mine from a friend for $100 less. Malone told me they did some changes in the tune because of metering valve. I could swap the normal fuel metering valve to see what happens.

CP4 HPFP Metering Valve Upgrade

 

[jetta 97]

My car is CP4 and it have the upgraded fuel metering valve the one Darkside sells but i brought mine from a friend for $100 less. Malone told me they did some changes in the tune because of metering valve. I could swap the normal fuel metering valve to see what happens.

CP4 HPFP Metering Valve Upgrade

If you running CP3 or CP4 pump you must know part number of metering valve and give to them to retune it, so every time metering valve gets change Tune has to be redone .

 

[sauron18]

If you running CP3 or CP4 pump you must know part number of metering valve and give to them to retune it, so every time metering valve gets change Tune has to be redone .

Yes i sent them the part number. They told me ¨I made some electrical changes based on the new metering valve and how that equates to actual flow. That electrical data was found using that part number.¨

 

[calimustang]

Ok from my experience….

the Original CP4 fuel meter valve for cp4 is 928 400 706

The CP3’s from vendors and eBay usually come with wrong fuel meter valve is 928 400 493 or other numbers which can be too big or too small which does cause piss poor MPG and performance etc.

Correct valve is 928 400 643 for CP3’s.

Notes of bad valve was the symptoms I had was overfueling. Piss poor MPG, limp mode, poor performance. Choppy acceleration at WOT.

CP3 benefits me by this list below,

The Advantages are:

1. no worries about locking the CP3 timing in place when you do timing belt, just lock cams and crank.

2. Better fuel flowing during acceleration which is smoother as buttery. It actually picks up a bit more power all the way.

3. Bumps the MPG’s up a bit nicely.

4. Faster crank to fire up

5. 3 piston pump vs 1 piston hydraulic wimpy pump which means it is far more robust thru stale fuel (low traffic fuel stations) and keep going like a trooper. It had happened to me few times.

6. Sounds like a mini Cummins.

Con: costs.

Verdict: it is well worth every Pennies spent on it!

So that saying… CP3 and CP4 with correct FMV’s will require no tuning. It’s totally up to you guys.

 

[sauron18]

Ok from my experience….

the Original CP4 fuel meter valve for cp4 is 928 400 706

The CP3’s from vendors and eBay usually come with wrong fuel meter valve is 928 400 493 or other numbers which can be too big or too small which does cause piss poor MPG and performance etc.

Correct valve is 928 400 643 for CP3’s.

Notes of bad valve was the symptoms I had was overfueling. Piss poor MPG, limp mode, poor performance. Choppy acceleration at WOT.

CP3 benefits me by this list below,

The Advantages are:

1. no worries about locking the CP3 timing in place when you do timing belt, just lock cams and crank.

2. Better fuel flowing during acceleration which is smoother as buttery. It actually picks up a bit more power all the way.

3. Bumps the MPG’s up a bit nicely.

4. Faster crank to fire up

5. 3 piston pump vs 1 piston hydraulic wimpy pump which means it is far more robust thru stale fuel (low traffic fuel stations) and keep going like a trooper. It had happened to me few times.

6. Sounds like a mini Cummins.

7. Deleted aux pump.

Con: costs.

Verdict: it is well worth every Pennies spent on it!

So that saying… CP3 and CP4 with correct FMV’s will require no tuning. It’s totally up to you guys.

Yeah i know. Sadly i can´t buy one right now. Maybe by the end of the year i can. Added the #7 in the advantages. The Aux pump cost $114 Bosch and OEM around $165.

 

[calimustang]

wow wow.... that's truly expensive little pumps.

my 1989 Mustang 5.0's little factory fuel pump costed me 1/4 of that. they go for $30-35 bucks by Carter brand at stock rating.

the "top level" would be 255 LPH that go for $55-60 bucks. that supports up to 650 hp with EFI system.

 

[Herationkane]

Hello all, sorry to bring up an old post but I just installed stage 3 and my car is doing the same thing. Wanted to see if there were any updates to this issue. Would the 2200bar sensor help in any way? Part # 04L 906 054

 

[calimustang]

oh yes. have malone tune adjust the tune to match 2200 bar sensor, it wakes the beast up big time.

 

[Herationkane]

I looked up the part number and my car shows to have the 2200 bar from factory. I reached out to tunezilla, and they adjusted the tune, now I am hitting the egt limiter in the top of 2nd, 3rd, and 4th.

 

[calimustang]

where did you see the EGT reading?

 

[Herationkane]

VCDS data log. I seen 954c and the limiter is set to 930c. Found out my car has the 2200bar sensor from factory.

 

[Herationkane]

I’m on revision #3 to the stage 3 tune. They pulled fuel on revision #2 and that fixed the P0087 but had to pull fuel above 4k rpm to stop hitting the limiter. It feels like stage 2 now!

 

[lemoncurd]

I’m on revision #3 to the stage 3 tune. They pulled fuel on revision #2 and that fixed the P0087 but had to pull fuel above 4k rpm to stop hitting the limiter. It feels like stage 2 now!

classic malone "tuning"

if you want to get some real gains, and real tuning, hit up @Xtremefunky

it's a shame so many people have fallen into the malone trap.

sadly, the CR170 is not really an "upgrade" power wise. there's better options :/

 

[Herationkane]

classic malone "tuning"

if you want to get some real gains, and real tuning, hit up @Xtremefunky

it's a shame so many people have fallen into the malone trap.

sadly, the CR170 is not really an "upgrade" power wise. there's better options :/

I’m waiting on my hardware now so I can get my @Xtremefunky tune! If I had known more when purchasing, I would have purchased the gtd1756vrk, but everything and everyone pointed me to this gtd1456vz for my CVCA.

 

[lemoncurd]

I’m waiting on my hardware now so I can get my @Xtremefunky tune! If I had known more when purchasing, I would have purchased the gtd1756vrk, but everything and everyone pointed me to this gtd1456vz for my CVCA.

live and learn, if i had to do it all over again i would have not gotten my GTB2266

should have opted for the normal GTB2260, or save up more and bought the GTD2265VZ. if i was doing it again today i would do the GTE2260

theres a chance in the future that i switch my turbo out to the GTE2260. the latest VNT nozzle tech, and a factory anti surge housing. word on the street is that it is a flow monster (which is what our CR TDI's need!)

 

[Herationkane]

live and learn, if i had to do it all over again i would have not gotten my GTB2266

should have opted for the normal GTB2260, or save up more and bought the GTD2265VZ. if i was doing it again today i would do the GTE2260

theres a chance in the future that i switch my turbo out to the GTE2260. the latest VNT nozzle tech, and a factory anti surge housing. word on the street is that it is a flow monster (which is what our CR TDI's need!)

Very nice! Guess I’m too scared to go big! Lol

 

[lemoncurd]

Very nice! Guess I’m too scared to go big! Lol

counter intuitively, larger turbo's (to a point) are safer for our engines and the drivetrain.

the smaller turbos, stuff gtd17XX size and smaller, are quite harmful to the rotating assembly, flywheel, clutch, and transmission.
this is because the torque curve is way way down low. "larger" turbo's like those in a 2XXX frame move the torque curve to 2k or a little north of there which generally stops any shuddering, or real damage from occuring