Malone or Kermit?

[Mass. Wine Guy]

I’m not at all close to getting my new 2915 Golf Sportwagen 6-speed tuned. But I’m thinking about it. As far as I know Malone and Kermit are the main (only?) ones around. How do they differ in any significant way and is one thought to be better than the other?

 

[lemoncurd]

if you plan on keeping emissions forever, Kerma. if you have an inkling that there may be a delete ANYWHERE in the future of the vehicle, Malone.
theyre both good off the shelf tunes that frankly you cant go wrong with. if you absolutely want to wringe everything your vehicles is worth out then nothing will beat a custom tune (something malone does offer btw)

there are some independant tuners around on this forum too. @Xtremefunky is quite good. though when going with an independant tuner i would strongly advise picking up an extra ECU incase yours bricks. generally speaking independant tuners do not use the same flashing process as places like kerma/malone/mrtuning. with the "big name" tuners you use a powergate 3 which has been married to their master key. it performs a virtual read of your ECU, you send that to the tuner, they pull down a map of your ECU from alientech/the web, edit it, then send it back to you to flash onto the vehicle with the powergate 3.

@burpod is also quite good, but he hasn't begun the trek into CR TDI's just yet. however i am sure when he does some great things will come of it!

 

[Mass. Wine Guy]

Wow, thank you. Then this leads me to ask what do you mean by emissions? What’s deleted and what’s the up/downsides?

My MK4 Jetta wagon has an EGR delete. It’s fine in my state, but wouldn’t pass inspection in some others.

 

[lemoncurd]

delete as in removing the DPF or EGR

the only downside is you wont pass inspection/emissions unless you know a guy to get you through. there are some exceptions to this but it is the general rule of thumb. there is also the environmental downside if you care about that.... (i dont but that is a huge discussion for another day lol)

 

[Mass. Wine Guy]

Wouldn’t the DOF physically fail and screw up the car? Or would it continue to regenerate and bun off soot?

 

[AverageAndy]

DPF ideally should last 100K+ miles. Then it will need to be removed and replaced or just deleted.

For example, the DPF in my car says ash load max limit is 70gm. I am currently reading 62.3gm (through VCDS wink, wink). My car will regen pretty consistently every 275miles, adding 0.1gm of ash each time. Assuming my DPF started at 0, then I should have been able to go 192,500 miles on the current DPF. I know this is not realistic as I only have 149,000 miles on car and current rate would put me at around 170, 000 miles to reach 70gm. Also, under emissions fix, the DPF was replaced around at around 50,000 miles. So I will expect to get a little over 100,000 miles on this DPF.

 

[Mass. Wine Guy]

Wow. This is almost Martian to me. My newly gotten car has about 127,000 on it.

 

[JELLOWSUBMARINE]

Reality. Is unfortunately after the dieselgate fiasco, its not uncommon to see wasted (filled) DPF's @50k (lots of post here).

I bought my previous 11' as a CPO with All the main emmisions components just replaced. The new and improved "dieselgate" retune dumped gobs of fuel in order to drop a miniscule amount of n0x emmissions. The idea was fine, but at the expense of the expensive emmisions components life expectancy. Think of a DPF as a soot filter that fills up.

I had the choice
1) to keep a couple years of warranty and waste these components (as they would probably die right after the warranty expired)
OR
2) tune... I live in California so a non delete tune was my only option.
I choose the Kerma non delete tune and actually ran thru 2 legitimate biannual smog checks NO issues. Why? Because the tune is clean. 100% times cleaner than my 83 no emmision test mk1.

Why is getting actual testimony on tune results so difficult? Because the EPA is known to watch this stuff. Why am I so brazen?... I dont care...EPA is just a state financial & political tool. Because of them I no longer have the TDI.Its virtually impossible to own a diesel in Ca.

 

[Nevada_TDI]

I always connect battery charger first, as I have been led to believe if the battery voltage drops to far, the EU will get scrambled or " bricked "

 

[lemoncurd]

always connect a battery charger or have another vehicle jumping the one being flashed.
if the voltage drops too low the ECU will simply turn off. and that could happen in the middle of a write! that is how it gets bricked.

 

[dieseldonato]

Good grief, how long does it take to flash the ecm on these newer cars? It's like 2 minuets tops on the alh.

 

[lemoncurd]

Good grief, how long does it take to flash the ecm on these newer cars? It's like 2 minuets tops on the alh.

5-10 minutes from my experience

 

[Tuheeden]

I have not used Kerma but I can tell you that with Malone/Tunezilla you can add/change tunes even years later for a few (like $99). This has been great as I started my daily driver with everything stock and started adding non-delete items like a CP3, rail pressure sensor, etc. The .05 tune is a great fit for stock

 

[dieseldonato]

5-10 minutes from my experience

Hmm, I was thinking it was like a half hour or something since your worried about battery voltage dropping too low.

 

[Tuheeden]

Hmm, I was thinking it was like a half hour or something since your worried about battery voltage dropping too low.

It's 5 to 10 minutes on the CJA/CBE and several key on/key off sequences. Also you really have to remove the fuse to the fans and hook up a charger mainly to maintain a consistent voltage. As mentioned if it drops below the flashing acceptable voltage range you can brick the ECU

 

[lemoncurd]

Hmm, I was thinking it was like a half hour or something since your worried about battery voltage dropping too low.

the issue isnt the time, it is when flashing the ECU or sometimes the TCU the coolant fans can go full blast. this over even just 5-10 minutes will kill a battey

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

You can't delete emissions in MA and pass state inspection. There are a couple of tuners that say the car will show emissions readiness after a delete, but the emissions stations are getting more sophisticated about checking, and I'm not sure it's worth the risk. Once the car is 15 years old MA inspects for safety only, and then you're in the clear.

Either Malone or Kerma offer tunes with emissions hardware intact that will show readiness. If I recall you have taken your cars to KMH Motors in the past, you may want to check with Keith and see who he uses. That way you could get the tune installed in person.

 

[Mass. Wine Guy]

Mark that as one clear advantage to my 2003 Jetta wagon.

But in thinking of my new 2015 Sportwagen, can tuning truly help improve fuel economy? Wouldn’t tweaking for increased power decrease mpg?

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

The fix on the '15s is a pretty minor change. I don't think you'd see a significant improvement in FE. And you could use what remains of your emissions warranty. I'd leave it alone, at least for now.

 

[1854sailor]

The fix on the '15s is a pretty minor change. I don't think you'd see a significant improvement in FE. And you could use what remains of your emissions warranty. I'd leave it alone, at least for now.

 

[Mass. Wine Guy]

Why would mph be so minor? Would it be a few miles more?

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

I don't think tunes in general net big FE improvements. If you delete the emissions on a newer diesel it does, but not on the older ones. And if you leave emissions intact in a CR TDI you're not going to see much of a bump. The stock tunes, even post-fix, are pretty good, especially for the cars that use DEF.

 

[JELLOWSUBMARINE]

I don't think tunes in general net big FE improvements. If you delete the emissions on a newer diesel it does, but not on the older ones. And if you leave emissions intact in a CR TDI you're not going to see much of a bump. The stock tunes, even post-fix, are pretty good, especially for the cars that use DEF.

Agreed
My Kerma tune on the 11' cjaa wasn't a noticeable mpg change but was a power bump and a reduction in soot production = longer DPF life & reducd regen hasle inconvenience

 

[Mass. Wine Guy]

But deleting the EGR men’s failing state inspection, right? My ‘03 is too old to require an emissions test. Not the new one.

Any major differences in Kerma vs: Malone if you don’t delete anything?

 

[JELLOWSUBMARINE]

I cant speak for the Malone, many swear by it. It may be me, but I saw to many post over CEL's off the Malone + the Kermit seemed to have a focus on trimming excessive soot. I had never done a tune previously and was a hard sell. I took a chance a would do it again.
Edit
While you still can

 

[x1800MODMY360x]

I say if you going to get a tune, either get rid of the EGR or have it Dynamic EGR.

Also not having DEF is 1000% better as you won't ever be threaten by your own car for not starting.

So DEF delete with EGR delete or Dynamic EGR is the best for "emissions testing area's" or get rid of all 3 DPF, EGR, DEF if you live in an area where there is no testing.

 

[Mass. Wine Guy]

What’s dynamic EGR? And the car needs DEF, no?

 

[AverageAndy]

DEF is an after spray added to the exhaust to decrease NOx emissions. The car definitely does not need it to drive, just like it does not need a DPF. These are all intended to clean up the emissions.

 

[x1800MODMY360x]

What’s dynamic EGR? And the car needs DEF, no?

Dynamic EGR is what VW did and tuner do, basically only have the EGR operate until the engine temp is at operating temp and close. Only for warm up.

The DEF is just an after treatment system, the Passat's have a horrible design and have a high failure rate. Unless emissions do a tail sniff, my passat dosen't include it for emissions testing.

 

[JELLOWSUBMARINE]

I guess it would depend on Massachusetts emmisions testing. Some believe California's test can/will detect an aftermarket tune through the OBDII hook up. Actual facts I've seen say otherwise. It seems EPA is blowing soot up our tail pipes.

The only reason I've heard the "OBDII" failed a "tune" is some items from a cheap tune set a code, marker not set, visual smoke or missing components...FWIW - just sayin'. How many failed emmions test have you heard of failing simply because the car had a (good) non VW tune?