Major engine imbalance. Thoughts?

Brett San Diego

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02 Jetta wagon manual
Hi all. First post on the MkV forum. I've been on the MkIV ALH forum since 2013 with my 02 Jetta wagon. I've just acquired an 06 BRM manual Jetta sedan. 188,000 miles. It's got a major engine imbalance at idle when warm. See video.

https://youtu.be/4Z2V2tUimWw

To me, the engine sounds good. When it's cold, it's much more settled (no more movement than my ALH), but when warm, it's rockin' and rollin'. Very obvious from the driver's seat when stopped at lights, etc.

Best thoughts on what would cause this much of an imbalance? Flywheel? Differential cylinder combustion? I don't believe anyone who says it just needs engine mounts. It may be true that it needs mounts, but I'm pretty confident the engine shouldn't shake this much, good mounts or bad.

There's not a check engine light. I have a VCDS, but I haven't run a scan with it, yet. No strange sounds when shifting. Records indicate timing belt at 102,000 miles and clutch replacement at 125,000 miles Edit: with LUK DMF clutch.


Edit: It may not be related to whether it's cold or not. May be more related to whether the car has been driven and the clutch operated. In neutral with the clutch pedal released, it settles down a little. Push the clutch pedal in, and it shakes more. Makes me think flywheel imbalance. 2nd owner that I bought from provided me with records from 1st owner that included receipts from Dieselgeek for the clutch parts. May have been a DIY job that wasn't done quite right.

I'm mechanically inclined. I do all my own work. I've had the head off my ALH twice and done the timing belt and cam and lifters.

Would appreciate any comments. Thanks,

Brett
 
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Mozambiquer

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Have you checked the camshaft?

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Brett San Diego

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Have you checked the camshaft?

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Have not checked camshaft. It's on my list. I have records that I think are comprehensive, and no mention of camshaft work.

edit: This youtube video says it demonstrates a running engine with a bad camshaft and lifters. Narrator says "one of the lifters is busted through."


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uDWDgbH_n9E


And, yet this engine is not shaking at all.


Brett
 
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Brett San Diego

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I just heard back from the 2nd owner who said that shake has been there throughout her ownership since 2013. The clutch was done about 5,000 miles before she bought it. Makes me think more that it could be clutch/flywheel related.


Brett
 

Brett San Diego

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A compression test is a fast and easy way to rule out a bunch of possibilities all at once.
I should get in there and do it, but it just seems to run well otherwise. Sounds good, revs good. Doesn't seem to have a power deficit. It does have this turbo lag issue that I've seen a thread about. It dawdles along at low rpm until about 1800-2300 then bam, the power hits. In first gear you get whiplashed.



Brett
 

Vince Waldon

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You would be looking for one cylinder being different aka imbalanced, as opposed to low overall engine compression.

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Brett San Diego

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More to add because I just bought it and haven't driven it much. The previous owner also mentioned that the shake was intermittent. And, that may be the case. I was driving it some today, and it wasn't shaking at a standstill, but then I drove some more, and it did shake. I just don't have enough seat time to get a full understanding.
Brett
 

Brett San Diego

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Have you checked the camshaft?

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Checked the camshaft today. It's toast. #4 exhaust was severely worn. I didn't bother checking the rest. I knew enough. I could not tell if the lifter was holed, but I don't think so. I don't think I hear the puff-puff sound that is typically heard. I'm not surprised as I believe the records i have from both owners are comprehensive, and there is no record of camshaft replacement.

So, I'll get that done and see what happens with the shake.

Brett
 

Brett San Diego

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I would suspect a stuck dmf. I don't hear a camshaft lope in your video. Dog bone is shot.
I checked the dog bone, and it's good. Does a "stuck DMF" mean replacement? I've not heard that one before, but I haven't read up on DMF's. I understand there were issues from the factory, but this one is a LUK replacement. Done 63,000 miles ago.


Brett
 
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greengeeker

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I checked the dog bone, and it's good. Does a "stuck DMF" mean replacement? I've not heard that one before, but I haven't read up on DMF's. I understand there were issues from the factory, but this one is a LUK replacement. Done 63,000 miles ago.
What exactly did they replace? There are kits that replace everything but the DMF.
 

Mozambiquer

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Checked the camshaft today. It's toast. #4 exhaust was severely worn. I didn't bother checking the rest. I knew enough. I could not tell if the lifter was holed, but I don't think so. I don't think I hear the puff-puff sound that is typically heard. I'm not surprised as I believe the records i have from both owners are comprehensive, and there is no record of camshaft replacement.

So, I'll get that done and see what happens with the shake.

Brett
Yup, that would do it. I remembered that's what happened when the cam went on my car. As it got worse, it started smoking and sounding rough. I don't think the compression would have been any different, with a compression test, just it was opening the exhaust valve later, which caused it to start compressing again before it released, which would make it shake.

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DieterLange

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My Golf TDI (BKD) has the same issue, engine shakes/rocks just like in the video and has a rough idle itermitently and taking a look at the log book it dosnt seem like cams have ever been replaced. How long is it safe to drive on worn cams?
 
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Brett San Diego

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What exactly did they replace? There are kits that replace everything but the DMF.
I took a closer look at the records. The receipts for the clutch show a "super smooth LUK upgraded clutch kit for 1998-2006 MK4 and MK5 TDI" purchased from Dieselgeek for $460 in 2012. The first owner's very brief notes say "Clutch (LUK DMF) replacement."

Dieselgeek's website doesn't show clutch kits now, so I can't tell exactly what was in this kit.

Maybe 8 years ago, a clutch kit including flywheel was $460.
Brett
 
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Brett San Diego

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I would suspect a stuck dmf. I don't hear a camshaft lope in your video. Dog bone is shot.
This was posted in a thread this month asking recommendations for flywheel replacement.


"I'm in the 3rd year and about 28K Km's since I had my clutch and flywheel assembly replaced with a Sachs SMF Quiet Clutch kit. I replaced the OEM DMF flywheel due to a bad idle speed engine vibration that wouldn't adjust out by changing the torsion setting. The OEM DMF had the dampener springs beat out and had about 3/4" of free movement causing the vibration. I never encountered the gear rattle issue and the clutch has stood up quite well so far."

Sounds a lot like my idle engine vibration.

Brett
 

Mozambiquer

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I have heard recommended the Colt or Frank06 stage two cams. They're supposed to last longer. I don't have personal experience with those cams, but the idparts cam on my car only lasted 30k miles. I did realize that the oil was not the correct oil all the time, but even still, I think it should have lasted longer than 30k miles. Either way, if I have another cam go, I'll probably go with stage two, and I only use 505.01 oil in my car now.

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Brett San Diego

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I have heard recommended the Colt or Frank06 stage two cams. They're supposed to last longer. I don't have personal experience with those cams, but the idparts cam on my car only lasted 30k miles. I did realize that the oil was not the correct oil all the time, but even still, I think it should have lasted longer than 30k miles. Either way, if I have another cam go, I'll probably go with stage two, and I only use 505.01 oil in my car now.

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Seriously, only 30K miles? Surprised IDparts sells such crap. Their info says made in Europe or Turkey. Unless it really was an oil issue. Still, I find it hard to believe oil made that big of a difference.

What did you replace it with second time around?

I purchased a cam kit from FCPEuro. Lifetime warranty on all parts. I figured I couldn't go wrong since my labor is free. Replacement for cost of shipping the old parts back to them. Cam is by Kolbenschmidt, which I believe to be a reputable German brand.
Brett
 

Brett San Diego

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I'm getting back to this thread I started a few months ago. The car has sat idle until I had time to replace the camshaft and lifters. My daughter and I finally got the job done this week. She's going to start driving soon, and this is going to be her car, so I'm making her work for it. :) Anyway, the old cam was severely worn, and upon removing the lifters, the exhaust lifters were all severely dished. At least, I think it was the exhaust lifters. I didn't pay close attention as my daughter was pulling them, but if I recall what I've read, the major wear is always on the exhaust side. I've been driving it a few days, now, and I'm happy to report the major engine rock-and-roll at idle is gone. I also did the "zip tie fix" because I was experiencing the engine bog down followed by a burst of power at 2K rpm due to the VNT vanes closing too much. Only, I used some steel welding wire rather than a zip tie, so there won't be any melting of plastic. The car is a joy to drive now. There is still some minor engine shake that is occasionally noticeable from the driver's seat but nothing like before.

I had to order a new computer for my VCDS, so when that comes in, I'll check/set the torsion value and also the VNT stop adjustment.

[edit] I've been driving it a couple weeks now, and the engine shake is reduced but not as much as I had hoped. Sitting in the driver's seat, you get an irregular big shake from the engine. My 2002 ALH with 390K miles never shakes the car like this. So, I still think there's something a little off.]

Brett
 
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