LUK DMF clutch vs SBC

[skyking1]

I know SBC makes great parts and has great customer service, so we can get that out of the way.
My goals are a daily driver with no more than ~170 HP/ mid 200's on torque.
A LUK DMF kit is less than $400, and I can't get near the SBC stuff for less than 500 plus turning my old Sachs DMF flywheel, with 150K miles on it.
I'm looking for feedback from those who have tuned and modded the cars with LUK's in them, and how it has gone.
I do want to retain the benefits of Dual Mass, not rally wanting extra rattles or vibrations if I can avoid that.

 

[James & Son]

Yes i would like to get feed back as well. Here is my story.

I bought Gofasters 2006 BRM TDI. 430,000 Kilometers. Needed work. He limped into my driveway. I paid him for it and pulled into the garage and the first thing on the list was the stock DMF. He had told me it had a mild tune on it and all i asked was if it would pass emissions. Bought a luk as I did not want to pay for customs and shipping. Our 2006 Brm, now my wifes car has the upgraded sachs DMf replaced in 2009 under warranty. I thought the luk would be a match so she would have no problems changing from car to car.

Unfortunately i find out this mild tune is a Unitronics stage one, that generates brute torque from 1800 to 2700 rpm.

Its strange that i have not heard the symptoms as i have with the Luk clutch.

Here is what is actually happening. If I apply torque to a certain maximum it seems to me the flywheel winds up and hits a maximum stop or something and then the rpm jump 2-300 rpm and at the same time you can feel the chatter as the clutch slips.

But like I said it is almost like the springs wind up and I have banged into a stop on the flywheel because in the 2 to 3 seconds this takes place it then resumes as if nothing as happened pulling strong after the 2-300 rpm slippage. As long as I don't apply another surge and bang into this so called stop it acts normal.

I can do the same thing if I am pulling a load( trailer) by torquing the flywheel pass a certain torque. The clutch shakes it off and then reengages on its own, after the 2-300 rpm increase plus shake, and pulls without slippage. I don't know exactly what to think. It definitely does not like a sudden burst of torque above a certain maximum. But avoid sudden brutal application and it seems to handle all the pedal you can give it if applied gradually( definitly a maximum torque threshold, especialy with the flywheel/clutch loads generated in 4th and 5th gear).

It took some time to actually realize what was going on. You floor it say at 2200 in 4th gear the revs jump the motor starts to rev up but then stablizes and pulls hard with no slippage after the first sudden 2-300 rpm jump. When a clutch lets loose usually it continues to slip and the motor continues to rev higher independent of a speed increase. This is very strange in the way it acts.

Also, I have noticed it is very hard to actually determine that the clutch actually is slipping when you pull away normal in 1st gear. You can not feel the clutch slip and then the wheels catch up to the rpm. It is as if the springs take all that slippage feel away even though I know there has to be some slippage you just can't feel it like most manual transmission clutches.

I like the way it feels other than the inability to take full sudden torque surge( flooring it in 4th or 5th). It engages smoothly as you pull away. Instead of slip and then feel it fully engage, it seems to have a fully engage feel right away? I am sure I can feel the slippage with the sachs on the other car. But I think the unitronics tune is loading the turbo and allowing the engagement smoother at low revs.

Is this just the way a very smooth clutch feels, maybe i have never had a so called very smooth engaging clutch before. Am I the only one to describe this as I have never heard anybody actually describe how it reacts. I also like the light pedal, lighter than the sachs on the other car.

Great for a stock car only I love the light feel and solid engage pull feel otherwise.

I need someone else to verify what is going on with the luk. I have not read others discribing it the way I have. I would have thought it slipped or it didn't. This is strange to me.

 

[turbocharged798]

All I know is my LUK that came stock in my 99.5 was one wonky POS when I pulled it out. The thing had like 1/2 turn rotation and the car shook like crazy.

Nothing beats a solid hunk of steel. Just saying.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

The LUK kit that was OE in the '99.5 and the one sold today are two different clutches. And until the flywheels wore out the ones in the '99.5 were great. I had one in my Golf that I drove on the track and it held up fine to 145 HP/270 torque, only slipping occasionally. And it has 125K on it at the time.

The new ones won't hold as much torque. I put one in my '02 wagon, at the time it was making about 173/300. The clutch never held, not even close. And if you want to get into the 170 HP range with an ALH engine, you can't help but get close to 300 ft/lbs. The LUK can't handle that. It's a nice setup, smooth, light pedal, and silent, but not strong enough for moderately modified TDIs. I'd go with an SBC Stage 2 Endurance. Daily might be OK, but I'd want the additional headroom. The drive pretty similarly, and the SBCs are quiet now, too.

 

[skyking1]

so you are saying an SBC on a solid flywheel?
Or the SBC endurance on my sachs DMF?

 

[maxmoo]

I just replaced my original sachs dmf clutch after 420,000kms with a "modified" LUK 17-050 DMF.
I had Bully clutches in Ottawa Replace one side of the organic disk with kevlar and modified the pressure plate for slightly more clamping force.
Clutch feels similar to the original except it is slightly "stickier" when engaging and may have slightly more pedal pressure. Otherwise it drives smooth and quiet like the original.
Car is a 2000 golf with a stock ALH for now.
My plan is to tune the car to approximatly 140hp. I have 1019 injectors and a vnt17 on the shelf ready to go in when time and weather allows.
Curious to see if the Luk is up to the task.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

skyking1, I was talking about SBC on a SMF. However, I ran a Stage 2 Endurance with the OE DMF in my car for almost 100K before the DMF finally gave up (200K on it total). It was a nice clutch, althought the pedal effort on a DMF modified clutch is, for some reason, heavier than the SMF setup. I don't see any disadvantage to the SMF setup now that the clutches are quiet.

As an aside, I've talked with SBC about modifying the LUK kit with Feramic (sintered iron) like the Stage 2 Endurance and they refused. Reason is that the pressure plate is self-adjusting, and with a different friction material they were concerned that the adjustment would go to the end of its travel and stay there. May not be true, but I decided not to push them. I did have the one that was in my car modified with better organic friction material and put it in my A3. Worked fine, but that car didn't make much power.

 

[RikAmirnov]

OP skip the luk and sbc clutch,


go visit aaron @ bora parts and ask for a DC Stage 2 holds 427lbs, $590 you"ll get : Shipping, all the extra bolts needed, 21lbs flywheel...

 

[skyking1]

Thanks Rik, I have been looking at that.

 

[914fan]

I have a 97 jetta with 300k on the original clutch. It slips every so often. What should I replace it with?

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

If the car is stock or nearly stock, I'd put in the stock replacement, Sachs K70038-02, or what we sell as a Quiet Clutch Kit. You can keep your OE flywheel and just have it roughed up a bit on install.

 

[H2O2H]

Best clutch kit for a 2001 Golf TDI with all stock parts and RC3 tune?

I like quiet (21lb fw or dmfw?), no rattle and no hard pedals.

No plans to increase power in the future.

idparts has this
http://www.idparts.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=76_102&products_id=764

boraparts
http://shopping.boraparts.com/product_info.php?products_id=286

pro's and con's for each?

other suggestions?