lubricity additive (what kind / how much)

[jettajay]

I've read suggestions of adding a lubricity agent to the tank. Which additive are people using and how much per tank ?? Does anyone have a clue as to how much of an effect this has on the scar rating ???

 

[PeterV]

Power service white botl.. or Stanadine are popular here. Never use ATF or even 2 cy oil thet are really not a fuel.. Your PD engine will like the top 2 indicated.

Scar rating is really not an issue with teh fuel it is more oil related.

 

[tcp_ip_dude]

You're profile shows an '04, not sure I'd be worried about fuel lubricity for it. But for my CR engine, I splash blend B100 in the tank to make B2 (1qt per tank), bio yields the highest lubricity over any of the other additives and it's approved by VW. . I also use 4oz of PS (white bottle) for water management.

 

[tditom]

Lubricity matters to all diesels. Look up the Bosch presentations for evidence of the effect on IP, PD and CR systems. US fuel is not required to meet the wear scar rating required by Bosch and other FI mfrs.

PeterV- I don't understand what you mean about it being oil and not fuel related. Please explain.

 

[ruking]

I've read suggestions of adding a lubricity agent to the tank. Which additive are people using and how much per tank ?? Does anyone have a clue as to how much of an effect this has on the scar rating ???

I have been using Primrose 405 C (3000 to 1 dilution rate.) it is app $12 per 32 oz/1 qt which treats 750 gals (for app 155,000 miles= 4.2 qts) . One outlet is AVLube, which after shipping is more like $14 per qt. http://www.avlube.com/pr40caof3qu.html .01867 cents per gal. (since not many folks fill precisely a tank full @ 14.5 gals)

Now I have no mpg issues, (see signature for range) nor do I have any fuel pump problems. BUT,... who is to say that if I did NOT use this (Primrose 405 C) that I WOULD HAVE mpg issues or fuel pump issues??????

 

[tditom]

jettajay- I started a thread a few years ago about the effect and importance of lubricity additives. I can't find biodiesel easily available here in San Antonio, so I just use PowerService.

 

[tcp_ip_dude]

jettajay- I started a thread a few years ago about the effect and importance of lubricity additives. I can't find biodiesel easily available here in San Antonio, so I just use PowerService.

I can't get it either locally. I order a 5Gal Bio-Cube from www.hyperfuels.com (Houston, TX), treats 20 tanks, even with shipping costs to NC, on per tank basis it's still comparable to off-the-shelf additive costs.

 

[tcp_ip_dude]

Opti Lube XPD! Simply the best!

Not for lubricity, B1-B2 offers much better HFRR scores.

 

[tomo366]

http://www.spencertechnicalsalesinc.com/Opti-lube_XPD.html

I have no want need or desire to use Bio-Diesel......

 

[tcp_ip_dude]

http://www.spencertechnicalsalesinc.com/Opti-lube_XPD.html

I have no want need or desire to use Bio-Diesel......

Not pushing solutions or products; just presenting facts. To each his/her own.

 

[tomo366]

I bet your solution is more expensive than mine.....But I am also betting that our HPFP will not Implode!!

 

[Plus 3 Golfer]

I bet your solution is more expensive than mine.....

NOT FOR ME unless you're getting the Opti-lube free.

B99 has been about 10% cheaper than ULSD in AZ. PS-DK is significantly cheaper than Opti-lube. So, using one quart of B99 + 4 ounces of PS-DK, each fillup costs me between $1.60 - $1.80 (at current ULSD prices) per tank less than if I used Opti-lube. Remember, if I used Opti-lube, I would need to buy about 30 ounces extra of ULSD to make up for the difference of one quart of biodiesel + PS-DK less over 6 ounces of Opti-lube.

I fillup at least 40 times per year @ $1.80 = $72 savings per year using B99 + PS-DK over Optilube which will buy about 20 gallons of ULSD at $3.50 per gallon.

As I said in other threads, if I didn't have access to biodiesel, I'd likely use Opti-lube.

 

[tomo366]

Where in AZ?? I just got back from there......Going again next month!

 

[tcp_ip_dude]

I bet your solution is more expensive than mine.....But I am also betting that our HPFP will not Implode!!

I don't know, how much do you spend per tank on Opti? The net cost for B100 shipped from TX to NC is $1.65 per tank for me (subtracting out the cost of the 1qt of ULSD I don't have to put in at each fill up).

 

[Plus 3 Golfer]

Where in AZ?? I just got back from there......Going again next month!

I'm about 40 miles southeast of the Phoenix airport. Where in AZ are you going? Bio is available at www.azbiodiesel.com but they are currently moving to a new location. If I run out of bio before they reopen (unlikely), I'll have to make a trip to Tucson.

We are having the coldest winter in the 5 winters that I've been here. Hopefully, next month will be a lot warmer. Golf in the first few hours of the mornings in 40*F weather reminds me of the 7 years I spent in the Hagerstown, MD area playing when the high temp for the day never got out of the 40s. But what's nice about Phoenix is that the big heater usually warms us up to the mid 60s or so by noonish and we don't have to worry about nor'easters and snow.

 

[dwpoyner]

I can't get it either locally. I order a 5Gal Bio-Cube from www.hyperfuels.com (Houston, TX), treats 20 tanks, even with shipping costs to NC, on per tank basis it's still comparable to off-the-shelf additive costs.

Just FYI, I drove down to Wilson to pick some up on Thursday. I just took a 5 gal container and filled it up. I figure at that rate, I'll only have to go about every 6 months. It was a nice day for a drive anyway! If you're interested, check out Triangle Biofuels. $3.76/gal. It was about an hour each way for me.

 

[jettajay]

I am not asking about this for my 04..

I am considering a 2011 CR and I'm trying to calculate any added costs for lubricant.

I keep going back / forth though...
I hear some people are now recommending changing fuel filter every 10K.

then others say the pumps may often grenade after a fuel filter change

Its a damn nice car, but is it worth it ???

 

[tomo366]

I'm about 40 miles southeast of the Phoenix airport. Where in AZ are you going? Bio is available at www.azbiodiesel.com but they are currently moving to a new location. If I run out of bio before they reopen (unlikely), I'll have to make a trip to Tucson.


We are having the coldest winter in the 5 winters that I've been here. Hopefully, next month will be a lot warmer. Golf in the first few hours of the mornings in 40*F weather reminds me of the 7 years I spent in the Hagerstown, MD area playing when the high temp for the day never got out of the 40s. But what's nice about Phoenix is that the big heater usually warms us up to the mid 60s or so by noonish and we don't have to worry about nor'easters and snow.

Yes I know I was there from Jan 23 to Feb 3.....]
I was there when it was 5 in Sierra Vista.....my Mom had a pipe break

 

[tcp_ip_dude]

Just FYI, I drove down to Wilson to pick some up on Thursday. I just took a 5 gal container and filled it up. I figure at that rate, I'll only have to go about every 6 months. It was a nice day for a drive anyway! If you're interested, check out Triangle Biofuels. $3.76/gal. It was about an hour each way for me.

Thanks for the tip. Do you know what feedstock they use? Trying to stay with Canola or Soy.

 

[tcp_ip_dude]

I am not asking about this for my 04..

I am considering a 2011 CR and I'm trying to calculate any added costs for lubricant.

I keep going back / forth though...
I hear some people are now recommending changing fuel filter every 10K.

then others say the pumps may often grenade after a fuel filter change

Its a damn nice car, but is it worth it ???

No regrets here. I love the CR engine.

 

[dwpoyner]

Thanks for the tip. Do you know what feedstock they use? Trying to stay with Canola or Soy.

They say they use 100% vegetable oil on their site. They have a nice operation going there. You could also look into the Piedmont Biodiesel too. It is a co-op. They actually have a tank here in Raleigh, but I won't use enough to make up for the co-op fee ($50).

 

[Derrel H Green]

I Prefer Opti-Lube XPD

http://www.spencertechnicalsalesinc.com/Opti-lube_XPD.html

I have no want, need, or desire to use Bio-Diesel . . .

Must be because you are a Taurus also!

I prefer and use Opti-Lube XPD for several reasons:

It is more convenient and rather easy for me to use.
I need only to add approximately 3.5 ounces of XPD per 14 gallon tank fill.

Good B99 is very costly in this area.
The last time I heard, Downs was charging about $5 per gallon,
and that was before the run up in D2 pricing here in California.

Opti-Lube XPD is less costly for me than Biodiesel.
At $47 per gallon delivered, that figures out to only $.3672 per ounce.
So 3.5 ounces (1/4 ounce per gallon) to treat a 14 gallon fill costs
me only $1.29, or less than 10 cents to treat each gallon of D2.

I've found that if I use the Opti-Lube higher recommended dosage of 1/2 ounce per gallon,
not only does that double my expenses to treat each 14 gallon tank, but my F E suffers!
Why? I do not know. Maybe because XPD does not have any BTUs?

I am not alone on this idea. There is at least one other member that has discovered this also.

So even though using biodiesel might save me a little bit of money,
it is indeed much harder to handle and a real pain to get.

Does biodiesel improve cetane levels?
I don't believe it does. But my understanding is that XPD does improve cetane levels.

You will read all the various posts and consider all the opinions here, and you will make up your mind
based on cost, convenience, and ease of obtaining and handling whatever additive you choose.
The important thing is that, if you are wise and prudent, you do use an additive.



D

 

[Plus 3 Golfer]

Derrel, if you are cutting the Opti Lube dosage in 1/2 to the minimum recommended, the benefits are likely to be significantly lower especially lubricity which is why I believe most use / recommend Opti Lube.

With respect to the FE, Diesel Power Magazine (link on Opti Lube's web site) showed FE improvement at the 256:1 mix ratio in a "real world" test in a Duramax diesel (from 14.1 mpg - no additive to 14.4 mpg with Opti Lube).

Biodiesel has a higher cetane (around 50ish+ IIRC) than "regular" ULSD.

Also, if biodiesel is significantly more expensive than ULSD, one can cut the biodiesel blend from a B2 to a B1 mixture and still get almost the same lubricity benefit as B2.

Bottom line: I believe one will find that cutting the B99 in half (going from a B2 to a B1 mixture because the price of B99 exceeds ULSD) + PS-DK is still cost effective vs cutting the Opti Lube dosage in 1/2 and thus likely forgo the primary reason for using Opti Lube - lubricity though I haven't seen any studies on the lubricity of a 1/2 dosage of Opti Lube.

"Lubricity, lubricity, lubricity" per dweisel.

 

[tditom]

Although biodiesel does have higher cetane than D2, you are not going to see a measurable difference at B2-5 concentrations. Additives have cetane boosting chemicals that can make a big difference.

 

[UberVW_TDI]

I've used PowerService (grey bottle) from day one.
About 6months ago, I started buying B100 biodiesel from hyperfuels. www.hyperfuels.com They ship it in 5 gallon cubes to your door ($30 plus shipping). I add 1 quart with every fillup (~12.5 gallons) => B2 w/ ~4oz PowerService.

 

[dzcad90]

Keep in mind that a good chemical additive has more benefits than Biodiesel can offer - Reduces or eliminates free water / emulsifier, cetane improvement, some decrease the waxing point, etc..

 

[its_ikon]

All this information is getting confusing. I see people who swear they will never use an additive and people who won't fill up without one. What happens if you have a failure and VW compares the fuel in the car with fuel from the station if there were to do that and see there's a difference? Does VW have any information stating that they are ok with using B2 or B5?

 

[tcp_ip_dude]

All this information is getting confusing. I see people who swear they will never use an additive and people who won't fill up without one. What happens if you have a failure and VW compares the fuel in the car with fuel from the station if there were to do that and see there's a difference? Does VW have any information stating that they are ok with using B2 or B5?

Our Owners Manual clearly states "up to B5".

 

[IFRCFI]

All this information is getting confusing. I see people who swear they will never use an additive and people who won't fill up without one. What happens if you have a failure and VW compares the fuel in the car with fuel from the station if there were to do that and see there's a difference? Does VW have any information stating that they are ok with using B2 or B5?

...too many NCIS / CSI episodes...

The odds of VW scientifically comparing samples between your tank and your last fill are about zero. Too many variables, too much cost, too difficult to defend. Your worst case scenario is the dreaded styrofoam cup test to check for gas.

I won't fill up without using OL XPD. I've used it since tank #1.

 

[ricaroo]

I have a 2011 jetta SW with the dsg transmission and I do not use any fuel additives. dealer told me you do not need them? I thought the clean diesel had all the additives in it you need (summer blend and winter blend)

Rick