silverbox
Veteran Member
So does the torque steer come from the axles flexing/twisting at different rates?
LSD, A funny thing happened on my way to 60 MPH
- Thread starter ChippedNotBroken
- Start date
mech644
Veteran Member
The Cord L29 beat the Tornado to market by 30 years.I had a '69 Toronado (Introduced in '66, making it the first FWD american production car), it had a 455ci "Rocket" ~400HP. It didn't torque steer too bad at all, though the it had incredibly light steering (like 1-pinkie easy). So I guess a crazy strong steering rack/box solves the problem...but it had zero road feel.
miss that car
but not the fuel consumption
Curious Chris
Top Post Dawg
Torque steering in a corner is very common as one wheel is going faster. Stock differential in a straight line I never had torque steer only an issue with wheel spin on damp roads as one wheel just spun when it wanted to as it had less traction. Now with my Wave Trac, which is different technology then Peloquin or Quaife, I get no torque steer on corners just a nice pull through the corner and rarely spin both tires.
I like my Wave Trac.
I like my Wave Trac.
Actually, the first FWD American made car was the Cord L-29 waaayyyy back in 1929....
On a side note, the 1973 Olds Tornado from GM was sold with an Optional AirBag SRS systems to the public.
MrVermin
TDIJetta99
Top Post Dawg
I forgot about the Cord L29.. Probably since only a few thousand were ever made. Were they a production car in the traditional sense? Either way, I doubt a 5000lb, 125hp car would know anything about torque steer haha..
I was wrong about the Eldorado anyway as Who1981 pointed out.. The Olds Toronado was one year before the Eldorado..
I was wrong about the Eldorado anyway as Who1981 pointed out.. The Olds Toronado was one year before the Eldorado..
mech644
Veteran Member
Forgot about the Cord? lol, good lord try and keep up will ya?
4000 L29's built, which for a "luxury" car of the period probably classifies as production. Hardly a household name these days though.
4000 L29's built, which for a "luxury" car of the period probably classifies as production. Hardly a household name these days though.
streeker02
Veteran Member
bingo. My understanding is that the different lengths of driveshaft experience different amounts of torsional deflection under load, which manifests itself as torque steer. This also makes me think that having an LSD would make torque steer worse, rather than better. Is there a mech. engineer amongst us that can chime in here?
Birdman
Top Post Dawg
- Joined
- Apr 7, 1999
- Location
- Near Hagerstown MD.
- TDI
- Jetta 2001 Died by Truck one snowy day. Jetta 2003
Had my LSD in the 01 Jetta for almost 10 years and never had a problem with torque steer unless the wheels were not turned straight. Between the LSD and the ASR it was a very good handling car in rain snow or dry. Wish I had it in my 03.
EDIT. One thing did happen but came on slowly at first sort of like yours. The car would drift to one side and after hunting for the problem I started beating on it harder which made it jump to the same side. Turned out the A arms needed replaced. I live back a dirt , gravel, big holes you can't miss which takes a toll on the A arms and strut mounts. TT work better on the A arms.
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PeeWee
Veteran Member
First American Front Wheel Drive production car was the 1929 Cord. it was probably so underpowered and heavy that any torque steer was not noticed
WIKIPEDIA Notation:
Cord L-29
This was the first American front-wheel drive car to be offered to the public,[1] beating the Ruxton automobile by several months, in 1929.[2] The brainchild of former Miller engineer Carl Van Ranst, its drive system borrowed from the Indianapolis 500-dominating racers, using the same de Dion layout and inboard brakes.[2] This allowed it to be much lower than competing cars. Both stock cars and special bodies built on the Cord chassis by American and European coachbuilders won prizes in contests worldwide. The L-29 came with full instrumentation, including a temp. gauge, oil pressure gauge, and speedometer on the left with a gas gauge, oil level gauge, and ammeter on the right of the steering wheel.[3]
It was powered by Auburn's 4,934 cc (301 cu in) 125 hp (93 kW) L-head Lycoming[4][5] inline 8 from the Auburn 120,[2] with the crankshaft pushed out through the front of the block and the flywheel mounted there,[2] driving a three-speed transmission. Gearing in both transmission and front axle was inadequate, and the 42 hundredweight[2] (4,700 lb (2,100 kg)) car was underpowered, limited to a trifle over 80 mph (130 km/h),[2] inadequate even at the time, and readily exceeded by the less expensive Auburn.[2] Still, the styling was lovely, and despite the 137.5 in (3,490 mm) wheelbase and steering demanding fully four turns lock-to-lock, handling was reportedly superb.[2] Priced around US$3000, it was competitive with Marmon, Lincoln, Packard, Franklin, and Stutz;[2] the 1930 Chrysler copied several styling elements.[4] It could not outrun the Great Depression, and by 1932, it was discontinued, with just 4,400 sold.[2] Wheelbase was 137.5"[6] and the height of the sedan was 61".[7]
WIKIPEDIA Notation:
Cord L-29
This was the first American front-wheel drive car to be offered to the public,[1] beating the Ruxton automobile by several months, in 1929.[2] The brainchild of former Miller engineer Carl Van Ranst, its drive system borrowed from the Indianapolis 500-dominating racers, using the same de Dion layout and inboard brakes.[2] This allowed it to be much lower than competing cars. Both stock cars and special bodies built on the Cord chassis by American and European coachbuilders won prizes in contests worldwide. The L-29 came with full instrumentation, including a temp. gauge, oil pressure gauge, and speedometer on the left with a gas gauge, oil level gauge, and ammeter on the right of the steering wheel.[3]
It was powered by Auburn's 4,934 cc (301 cu in) 125 hp (93 kW) L-head Lycoming[4][5] inline 8 from the Auburn 120,[2] with the crankshaft pushed out through the front of the block and the flywheel mounted there,[2] driving a three-speed transmission. Gearing in both transmission and front axle was inadequate, and the 42 hundredweight[2] (4,700 lb (2,100 kg)) car was underpowered, limited to a trifle over 80 mph (130 km/h),[2] inadequate even at the time, and readily exceeded by the less expensive Auburn.[2] Still, the styling was lovely, and despite the 137.5 in (3,490 mm) wheelbase and steering demanding fully four turns lock-to-lock, handling was reportedly superb.[2] Priced around US$3000, it was competitive with Marmon, Lincoln, Packard, Franklin, and Stutz;[2] the 1930 Chrysler copied several styling elements.[4] It could not outrun the Great Depression, and by 1932, it was discontinued, with just 4,400 sold.[2] Wheelbase was 137.5"[6] and the height of the sedan was 61".[7]
madcowintucson
Veteran Member
personally i have had the peloquin and nothing like what you desribe ever happened. i also now have a wavetrac and nothing like that happens. i believe what may be going on here is possibly and installation issue, loose or worn components, or both. even with an open diff torque steer isnt to bad on these cars and certainly the car does not shift from left to right, just the wheel with power gets traction and the steering wheel turn in the direction of the wheel with the most power. unequal length half shafts cause it to be worse. but in your description i cant make out by what you mean power shifting from left to right. what is that? do you mean the steering wheel is moving? the power will not shift from one wheel to another in a straight line and if it does your not gonna feel it. are you describing the car actually moving from left to right? what kind of surface are you driving on when this happens? i will report this since i have installed the wavetrac, on grooved pavement where i live (the highway is grooved) at certain points my car shifts from left to right and its un nerving. at first i attributed this to my tires, replaced all tires with new and still happens, but its not in the steering, its as though the back end of the car is dancing around, but again this only happnes on certain portions of road and not on regular blacktop. it feels like hydroplaining in the rear but the front is fairly stable. does your car feel like its hydroplaning in the front or rear?
Doc_Oc
Veteran Member
Some tires exacerbate the railing feeling. Grooved pavement makes it worst for sure. It feels kinda like darting on a snowmobile.
I had torque steering being worst on hotter days than colder ones on the same road, same car same everything. So, the amount of traction put down by the tires makes a difference too.
Also, some drivers, feel the torque steer more then others. Some drivers are driving harder then others.
I had torque steering being worst on hotter days than colder ones on the same road, same car same everything. So, the amount of traction put down by the tires makes a difference too.
Also, some drivers, feel the torque steer more then others. Some drivers are driving harder then others.
TDIJetta99
Top Post Dawg
How much power are you running? Mine peaks over 350ft-lbs... torque steer can be violent at times...
ecodean
Veteran Member
My car also dances a little under hard acceleration since the Peloquin install. I think that it is caused by the differences in the road surface which causes the differential to switch power from side to side as it searches for traction. At first it was unnerving but now I expect it to happen under full power, so no problemo.
but now I expect it to happen under full power, so no problemo.
silverbox
Veteran Member
I was getting a bit of dance with my Peloquin, found my struts were worn, replaced and the dance is gone.
Turbodude1
Veteran Member
How are your control arm bushings and also strut top bushings? Are the OE or the TT/R32 Style? Worn OE ones will make it torque steer.
I was getting alot of torque steer and changing the control arm, strut top bushings, & dog bone mount fixed it.
I was getting alot of torque steer and changing the control arm, strut top bushings, & dog bone mount fixed it.
madcowintucson
Veteran Member
i just want to report, my wavetrac may be defective. i jacked one side off the ground and it acted like an open differential. wierd thing is i had someone check the front tires in the snow while i held the e-brake and both were turning forward like the diff was locked. called wavetrac and they said thats not how its not supposed to work. other than that, my rear keep jumping around in the ice (but not on fresh snow!) and the frame is slightly bent. wavetrac is gonna get involved to see whats up and ill get frame checked tommarow.
Doc_Oc
Veteran Member
What do you mean the rear jumps on ice?
Also, what did you hit that you bent the frame?
Also, what did you hit that you bent the frame?
madcowintucson
Veteran Member
no i bought the car as a salvage and they straightened the frame. so i took it to a frame and body slop today and they think my "rear steer" issue is the 2 rear bushing being worn out and not anything to do with the frame. so essentially the rear swing axel is moving under certain conditions causing the car to feel like its rear steering but not in a good way! also when the front of my car dances from side to side like the guy who started this topic, i suspect now its because my wavetrac is got both axles sort of locked up and isnt allowing enough give, kinda like a locker in the front on snow and ice, the front just jumps side to side when it lost traction. same effect at least. so in short its like i got an open diff when one wheel is off the ground and locked when both wheels are on ground lol.
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Doc_Oc
Veteran Member
I understand the rear steer now. The rear bushings can do that.
Well, somewhere in a thread about diffs or maybe even this one, can't remember now, it says that an LSD, will act like an open diff if the difference of torque between wheels is too big. As in, one wheel is on ice, the other on dry pavement, your stuck. The one on ice will spin and no power will be applied to the other wheel AT ALL. So, it seems to me that your LSD works as intended. Take my statement with a grain of salt, as I never had one installed. I am just regurgitating from what I read here.
So, a quick recap. Previous posts here, say that an LSD exacerbates torque steer. You experience that. Here or other threads, people report getting stuck with one wheel on ice, since all the torque is transferred to the spinning wheel and non to the stationary one. You experience that as well.
Let us know what Wavetrac has to say about it.
Well, somewhere in a thread about diffs or maybe even this one, can't remember now, it says that an LSD, will act like an open diff if the difference of torque between wheels is too big. As in, one wheel is on ice, the other on dry pavement, your stuck. The one on ice will spin and no power will be applied to the other wheel AT ALL. So, it seems to me that your LSD works as intended. Take my statement with a grain of salt, as I never had one installed. I am just regurgitating from what I read here.
So, a quick recap. Previous posts here, say that an LSD exacerbates torque steer. You experience that. Here or other threads, people report getting stuck with one wheel on ice, since all the torque is transferred to the spinning wheel and non to the stationary one. You experience that as well.
Let us know what Wavetrac has to say about it.
madcowintucson
Veteran Member
when i had the peoloquin i never had any torque steer at all. and it did act like an open diff in the snow and ice when i started to overcfome traction with my tires. this is why i tried the wavetrac because its gonna act like and open diff to a point and then power will start to transfer to the other wheel in low traction or no traction situations. the shop that installed it told me they had a defective unit from wavetrac in their pikepeak hillclimber nd wavetrac sent out a new one right away. there is no torue steer in my car right now at all, but now i am thinking if the guy who opened the thread has enough power maybe he is overcoming traction and the diff suddenly sends power to the wheel whith least traction. however if this happened it would simply spin the wheel without traction and there would be no shifting side to side. put that sucker on a wheel dyno and video what happens, i would be calling gary over at peloquin. hey man make sure you dont got the defective bolts from peloquin like i did and 2 snapped for no reason costing me alot to fix.