low fuel prices keep new TD makers at bay in NA

[dubStrom]

Is there any hope for new entries in the TD engine options in NA?

After Chevy's brief entry last year (Cruze), we are again faced with the same selections... VW still has not rolled out Tiguan or Passat wagon with TDI, and still only Mercedes, Audi, and BMW have diesel alternatives in the passenger car/wagon arena.

Subaru has never followed through with the boxer diesel in USA, and Mazda's Sky-Active D is still embryonic, maybe permanently now that gasoline prices are down closer to earth.

I like Volkswagen's TDIs, but there's nothing like competition to improve what's available. The diesel fleet just can't evolve! I wonder how well the 4-cylinder 3.0 liter Toyota HiLux would do here? Nissan has also been making diesels forever. They know how to do it. Other car makers like Honda, Chrysler/Jeep, Mitsubishi and Seat make lots of diesels.

I look periodically but still see no real evidence that anything will change. But Mazda has the diesel engine proudly displayed on the USA website as an engine that they "make". Maybe Mazda will be the next new North American entry with their no-urea, two stage turbo 2.2 liter engine. It's in the engines section, look for more on SkyActive D
http://www.mazdausa.com/MusaWeb/skyactiv.action

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

Cruze will be back with a diesel in 2017, according to Chevrolet.

Audi is including a diesel in the new platform A4 for 2016

Jaguar is offering a diesel in its new XE Sedan, allegedly with the option of having a manual transmission.

Chevy Colorado and GMC Canyon will have a 2.8L diesel in 2016.

Mercedes will have a diesel in its new C-Class sometime in 2016

Jeep is talking about a diesel Wrangler in 2017 or 2018.

So there's stuff going on.

 

[john.jackson9213]

Cadillac is supposed to be bring a diesel out in a couple more years, again. The last diesel designed for Cadillac by VM is now powering the Ram 1500.

Federal fleet mpg mandates have more to do with engine choices auto makers provide consumers than cheap gas. A 427 cu. in V8 is cheaper to produce than a twin turbocharged V6 with the same power output. But the smaller turbo V6 offers a few more mpg towards that federally required fleet mpg goal.

Nobody really cares much if you and I want a diesel fueled car car that gets 50 mpg or a gas fueled car that gets 50 mpg. All the auto maker cares about is selling enough high mpg gas/electric/diesel/what ever powered cars to make their fleet mpg minimums. Then they can sell more high profit super cars/trucks/what ever makes a bazillion dollars car.

 

[VeeDubTDI]

Oh, Cadillac... promises promises. An ATS diesel would be pretty sweet though.

 

[dubStrom]

I thought Cruze was done. I heard sales have been very slow.

Jaguar and Cadillac? That's interesting. These are luxury cars, aimed at high end buyers that otherwise might look at the German entries if the diesel engine is what they want.

There is still an obvious gap in the popular lighter CUV/SUV class. Price point might make it difficult to them oil burners, but I am sure that Tiguan and Outback diesels would make good sales. An extra $1500-$2000 shouldn't kill that.

Around here, diesel is even less expensive than gasoline right now. I wonder how long that is going to last. Not hard to find $2.30 per gallon, and gasoline is about $2.35

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

Tiquan TDI is coming for MY 2017, intro sometime next year. I don't think you'll see any diesels from Japan. They're more committed to hybrids in NA.

Jaguar, Audi, BMW, and Mercedes need diesels to raise their corporate average fuel economy ratings. They don't have many other options. The Jaguar XE diesel with a manual (if it happens) would be very tempting to me. I like the 3-Series BMW, but the diesel is a generation older than what they get in Europe, I don't want an automatic (although the 8 speed might be worth it) and I hate run-flat tires. If I could skip the latter two with the Jag, and if it's under $50K, it might be fun.

But if I think about it for more than a minute I'd probably be happier with a Jetta Sedan.

 

[dubStrom]

That's good news on the Tiguan. My wife may be ready to sell her CRV by then, and she likes Tiguan and Volkswagens. Her folks in Spain drive TDIs and Bluemotion stuff. She has always been jealous of her sister's Passat wagon. Me too.

 

[Random_Vibration]

The Tiguan TDI has not been confirmed for the US market. Volkswagen said at one point they wanted to expand TDI offerings here but that was then and this is now. By the time they actually release the car, they'll have the perfect excuse not to do it like always. VW likes to show things and talk about them but when the rubber meets the road they always error on the side of doing nothing.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

According to the owner of our local dealer it has been approved and is scheduled as a MY 2017 vehicle, on the MQB platform. I actually mentioned it to him yesterday when he stopped by the office and it came up in conversation and he confirmed it was coming. I know things can change, but it seems likely this time.

He also said that the Crossblue (or whatever it's called) SUV/CUV based on the Passat platform is coming as well, also with a diesel, although he didn't say when.

 

[dubStrom]

According to the owner of our local dealer it has been approved and is scheduled as a MY 2017 vehicle, on the MQB platform. I actually mentioned it to him yesterday when he stopped by the office and it came up in conversation and he confirmed it was coming. I know things can change, but it seems likely this time.

He also said that the Crossblue (or whatever it's called) SUV/CUV based on the Passat platform is coming as well, also with a diesel, although he didn't say when.

I heard long ago that the new large 9 passenger SUV going to be made alongside Passat at Chattanooga plant. With gasoline prices hovering just over $2 right now, they'd actually have a better chance of getting them on the road. They need to hurry!

 

[Random_Vibration]

According to the owner of our local dealer it has been approved and is scheduled as a MY 2017 vehicle, on the MQB platform. I actually mentioned it to him yesterday when he stopped by the office and it came up in conversation and he confirmed it was coming. I know things can change, but it seems likely this time.

He also said that the Crossblue (or whatever it's called) SUV/CUV based on the Passat platform is coming as well, also with a diesel, although he didn't say when.

Your source maybe 100% correct but I'll wait for the official press release. It isn't officially confirmed until VW releases the info to the public. Right now, it's a statement you heard 2nd hand from a source not employed by Volkswagen of America. He probably attended the dealer conference where VW actually shared this information but they can change product plans before launch.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

He did attend a dealer conference late last fall in Atlanta. And I agree things can change.

It'll be interested to see what happens, but it's not a big deal to me regardless. I wouldn't want a Tiguan. One AWD ownership experience was enough for me, thanks.

 

[kjclow]

I thought Cruze was done. I heard sales have been very slow.

GM pretty much set up the Cruze diesel sales to fail. They dropped into more of an entry level car and tarted it up to an unreasonable price point. If possible, I would cross shop the Cruze with the MKIV Jetta sedan. Sure the electronics are more modern but space wise, they're about the same. Also, from what I heard, their service, specifically for the Cruze diesel, rivaled VW for lack of customer care.

With orders now being accepted for the Colorado/Canyon diesels, it would not surprise me to see GM put that same diesel engine into the Trax and/or Equinox by 2018.

 

[El Dobro]

Also, from what I heard, their service, specifically for the Cruze diesel, rivaled VW for lack of customer care.

My brother has a Cruze gasser and he frequents the forums. He said that Chevy monitors the forums and will jump in there, if someone's having a problem. I'm on the Volt forum and can tell you that the Chevy people jump in on there, too. OnStar advisors also pop up if help is needed.

 

[Random_Vibration]

My brother has a Cruze gasser and he frequents the forums. He said that Chevy monitors the forums and will jump in there, if someone's having a problem. I'm on the Volt forum and can tell you that the Chevy people jump in on there, too. OnStar advisors also pop up if help is needed.

If true, that is a far cry from VW's head in the sand approach to those who buy their products. It took GM to fall to the point of economic failure to begin to listen to the market and potential customers.

 

[dubStrom]

GM pretty much set up the Cruze diesel sales to fail. They dropped into more of an entry level car and tarted it up to an unreasonable price point. If possible, I would cross shop the Cruze with the MKIV Jetta sedan. Sure the electronics are more modern but space wise, they're about the same. Also, from what I heard, their service, specifically for the Cruze diesel, rivaled VW for lack of customer care.

With orders now being accepted for the Colorado/Canyon diesels, it would not surprise me to see GM put that same diesel engine into the Trax and/or Equinox by 2018.

The Colorado/Canyon diesel AND the Ram 1500 Tradesman Ecodiesel are both tempting. I hear the 4x4 1500 is surpassing 30 mpg on the highway but still makes gobs of torque. Not bad for an eight foot full size bucket on a good work truck with an 8sp auto transmission.

The question is affordability. I am the consumer that really can't justify owning my JSW as well as a new truck. And I do not want to commute in a truck, even if it is getting (a relatively paultry) 25mpg in the city. JSW is much more comfortable/sensible and gets 40mpg in the city.

My old Toyota is so cheap to own/maintain, and it keeps running as if it were possessed even after 30 years and nearly 250,000 miles. I'd be pretty stupid to give that up. And one of my sons just got a mouthful of metal. Another payment, for two years!

 

[kjclow]

Different points in life. We are now empty nesters with a grandkid on the way. We found from some of our trips last summer, that the JSW doesn't have room for all our toys. I had to use the kayak trailer for the bikes on a three thousand mile trip. The trailer is long enough that it effects mileage, so I only got low to mid 30s. Now if I had a diesel pickup, the bikes go in the back with coolers loaded around them and, hopefully, I still pull down low to mid 30 on the highway. I'm also looking for something with easier entry and exit. I don't move as well as I used to.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

There was a Colorado at the Detroit Auto show this year with two bikes "in" the bed. Actually the bikes were on racks on top of the bed because, you guessed it, the bed on the crew cab Colorado is too short for a bicycle. They had another with snowboards set up the same way. Seems pretty useless to me.

And I think you'd have to drive pretty gently to get over 30 MPG. And of course you'd be getting something in the 20s in daily driving the rest of the year, instead of what your JSW gets.

 

[kjclow]

I have an 07 canyon extended cab right now with a 6' bed. The bikes will fit in the bed without taking the front wheel off but I use a rack at the front to secure them by the forks, so tires come off anyway. Same thing I had to do with the kayak trailer. If the mileage rating is not high enough on the new diesel, then I will stick with the old one for a while more.

 

[Xaxxus]

GM pretty much set up the Cruze diesel sales to fail. They dropped into more of an entry level car and tarted it up to an unreasonable price point. If possible, I would cross shop the Cruze with the MKIV Jetta sedan. Sure the electronics are more modern but space wise, they're about the same. Also, from what I heard, their service, specifically for the Cruze diesel, rivaled VW for lack of customer care.

With orders now being accepted for the Colorado/Canyon diesels, it would not surprise me to see GM put that same diesel engine into the Trax and/or Equinox by 2018.

Dont forget the lack of choice. I wanted a manual transmission car, the Jetta and Golf were my only diesel option for a stick shift.

With the cruze, your options were very limited. They basically said: "you want a diesel vehicle that isnt a truck? Take it and go".

Ill admit though, the Cruze had better fuel economy and performance, but the lack of a manual tranny lead to me going for the Jetta.

I would love to see more manufacturers making diesels up here in canada.

 

[dubStrom]

Cost of a new diesel truck

Pricing is supposed to be out by now on these new mid-sized GM diesel trucks. I haven't found it. Maybe you have to order one to find out.

You can get a Ram ecodiesel single cab Tradesman long bed 4x4 with NO frills for about $33k, but that doesn't even include power windows. And it is probably available only in white exterior color. And they are HARD to find.

You can find a big gasser 4x4 for less than that, even with some nice options, and with these LOW gas prices, the diesel will not look as tempting.

I would not be surprised if GM ignores this low end option range. And. it won't be possible to get a single cab at all. Not even access cab-just quad cab.

I'll bet the lowest price will be over $36k. They'll option them up with at least tow package and some other trim package related to instrumentation or convenience (phone/music connectivity at least). That won't be standard. I'll bet it will be hard to find a new GM diesel truck for under $40k. Maybe $38k.

We are talking about an expensive vehicle. My JSW was $26k, and I felt like I was spending more than I should on any vehicle

It won't make sense unless you really have a business and NEED it for work, or just have extra cash to spend. In the US, the latter category is shrinking, but I know that won't stop some people that don't mind debt!

 

[kjclow]

Cheapest set up you can get right now is the SLE crew cab coming in around $36 US. When I price out what I really want (no 4x4), I go just over $40. I either need to win powerball or save those dollars for a decade or two so I can afford a new toy.