Looking for clutch recommendations

Banksy

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2021
Location
Pennsylvania
TDI
None
The Luk 17-050 kit comes assembled, complete. You just bolt it to the crank. You'll have to clip the new release bearing to the release lever, and I would recommend a new release lever and pivot pin. They can be worn, and they are cheap and easy to replace.... you do not want to take the transmission out again in 10k miles because the pivot wore through.

I suppose a rear main seal wouldn't be a bad idea either if the transmission is out. is there one of those that's better than the other?


I'm on rock auto and see a few.

 

oilhammer

Certified Volkswagen Nut & Vendor
Joined
Dec 11, 2001
Location
outside St Louis, MO
TDI
There are just too many to list....
I would not mess with the rear main seal. That means the whole flange, which means taking the oil pan down, and they rarely leak anyway. I never do them. And I just did the clutch on my nearly 600k mile ALH.
 

pedroYUL

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2011
Location
MI, USA
TDI
2004 wagon BEW; 2015 Passat CVCA; 2015 GSW CRUA
RMS is better to do only if leaking. The one in my BEW was a tiny leak, that became a big leak after I messed up the install. Had to redo the whole shebang just to correctly install (and let settle for >8h before refill) an $8 part.

Dropping the oil pan is not fun.
 

KrashDH

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 22, 2013
Location
Washington
TDI
2002 Golf
When I pulled my transmission, I did the RMS. It's easy to get at and do while the transmission is out. You do not have to drop the pan. Still going strong, no leaks. Just be sure to clean the shaft really well, as s well as clean the exposed flange of the pan of all the old sealant/rtv, then a small bead of the new RTV.

Although, I suppose if you used an oil pan gasket, you may have to drop it to add a new gasket if you damage the old one. But I use The Right Stuff gasket maker on my oil pan to block interface.
 

PakProtector

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 5, 2014
Location
AnnArbor, MI
TDI
Mk.4 and the Cummins-es
New pivot ball is a must IMO. I indulge my paranoia on this sort of thing w/o a second thought. I would love a better throw out bearing if I could get one...I hate the idea of having to split the beast to do just that bit.
cheers,
Douglas
 

Banksy

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2021
Location
Pennsylvania
TDI
None
So this is interesting. I ended up going with that LUK kit that was recommended. I ended up finding a couple that works exclusively on Mk4 TDIs and just had them put it

I got a message from them saying there was something called a VNT17 turbo on this car and something called a 3 bar tune?

I'm not sure what all this means but it has me wondering if that LUK might not be able to handle that turbo?

I really am truly in a area I am extremely unfamiliar with here.
 

Nero Morg

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 19, 2017
Location
OR
TDI
2014 A6 TDI, 2001 Jetta TDI, 2014 Passat TDI
If it's a LUK kit with the vr6 clutch cover and friction disc it should work fine. If it's a stock SMF LUK kit, if it's actually tuned with the bigger turbo, it will slip.
 

Nero Morg

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 19, 2017
Location
OR
TDI
2014 A6 TDI, 2001 Jetta TDI, 2014 Passat TDI
Sounds like it's a stock clutch for a Dual Mass Flywheel

https://forums.tdiclub.com/index.php?threads/luk-17-050-clutch.359799/

That baby is gonna slip on high torque demands. I had a LUK kit for a Single Mass Flywheel, and with a stage 2 Malone tune it would slip under hard acceleration in 3rd gear just from the torque. I would suggest swapping out the flywheel with a SMF and either a vr6 clutch, or get a South Bend stage 2 daily clutch assembly.

Mind you, stage 2 Malone is with a stock turbo, not even the vnt17, so you're pushing more power. Just to put it in perspective.
 

benmarks

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2003
Location
Portland, OR
TDI
2004 Jetta GLS Sedan Platinum Gray
So this is interesting. I ended up going with that LUK kit that was recommended. I ended up finding a couple that works exclusively on Mk4 TDIs and just had them put it

I got a message from them saying there was something called a VNT17 turbo on this car and something called a 3 bar tune?

I'm not sure what all this means but it has me wondering if that LUK might not be able to handle that turbo?

I really am truly in a area I am extremely unfamiliar with here.
The VNT-17 turbo is the version from a high end MK4 TDI in Europe and other countries (a PD150. You have a PD100.) This turbo is very popular as an upgrade for our engines because it's basically bolt-on. The other item you mention is a pressure sensor, and the version you have is required to get full benefit from your turbo.

If you have these upgrades, you may want to look for others. Another common upgrade to do along with the turbo is to replace the fuel injectors/nozzles. And, to get optimal benefit from all of these upgrades, the previous owner may have purchased a tune for the engine computer.

To tell if you have a tune, however, you may need to find someone with a tool like VCDS/VagCom that can connect to your engine computer.
 

Banksy

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2021
Location
Pennsylvania
TDI
None
Well hold on here.

From what I understand thus repair isn't done yet. But I'd assume that this car had a Single mass flywheel on it if thus upgrade was done right?

Could I just have then reuse the old flywheel and use the new clutch disc IF that was the case?

I am so paranoid about this now. I was never told these upgrades were done when I bought this car.
 

benmarks

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2003
Location
Portland, OR
TDI
2004 Jetta GLS Sedan Platinum Gray
Upgrading the clutch would've been the ideal scenario by the previous owner, but who knows what car owners do. However, to clarify, an upgraded clutch doesn't have to come with a single mass flywheel. There are upgraded clutches that have a dual mass flywheel too. So, if the clutch your came with when you bought it had a DMF, that doesn't necessarily mean the owner didn't upgrade the clutch.
 

Nero Morg

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 19, 2017
Location
OR
TDI
2014 A6 TDI, 2001 Jetta TDI, 2014 Passat TDI
A SMF clutch won't work on a dmf the way they bolt together is different. Biggest thing about them, is the springs for dampening are in the flywheel for a DMF and the friction disc is solid. For the kit you had installed, the damper springs are in the friction disc, so easy indicator that it's SMF now.

I know this contradicts what I said earlier. But sounds like you have a stock smf with stock flywheel, which isn't rated for the tune you have.
 

benmarks

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2003
Location
Portland, OR
TDI
2004 Jetta GLS Sedan Platinum Gray
I don't think I saw why you were replacing your clutch. Did you mention that? If you are currently having issues, then I would go with the South Bend Stage 2 Daily + SMF mentioned by a number of users.

If there was a parts reseller that had a standard "Level Up" kit for TDI's, it would probably come with these components:

VNT-17 Turbo
3-bar MAP Sensor
South Bend Stage 2 Daily Clutch + SMF
PD150 or other upgraded injectors (there'd probably be the least consensus on this one)
Malone Tune or other brand to make it all work together optimally

There are many other options and scenarios, but in my opinion, the above list is the most common.
 

Banksy

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2021
Location
Pennsylvania
TDI
None
Had no idea if it'd ever been done. Was offered the job done for 350 so figured why not if it's that cheap

I would have gladly bought a South bend but it was way too much money for what I wanted.

I figured this car was stock. It looks it still even has emissions on it

Was recommended the kit I mentioned earlier and sent it. Didn't anticipate this car would have these upgrades.

Thing looked ghetto as they come when I bought it home so I assumed there's no way someone dumped money into this thing
 

Genesis

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Feb 26, 2003
Location
Sevier County TN
TDI
'03 Jetta Wagon
If it has a 3bar tune and VNT17 on it, even without nozzles, you're beyond what the RepSet can hold. What's in there NOW? I'm assuming the transmission is out at this point and so is the old clutch?

I find it hard to believe that the OE Sachs clutch would last a week with those in there; I wouldn't even attempt that since I'd be immediately pulling the gearbox anyway. Assuming there's a SMF and clutch in there now it makes sense, but not if what's in there today is a DMF model of any sort.
 

CleverUserName

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2014
Location
NorCal
TDI
2014 OZ Cruze CTD & 2010 JSW 6MT & 2017 GMC Canyon CCLB ATX 2.8 Duramax
I’ve driven all 3 of these clutches. The G60/VR6 is the best option because it’s very light, smooth as butter and holds 300 lb/ft. The 17-050 has a lighter flywheel and shudders on BRM stage II. The SB Stage II daily is way overpriced for what it can do.
 

tgray

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 12, 2004
Location
Marengo, IL
TDI
'02 Beetle, '05 Golf, 2000 Jetta, 2001 Jetta, 2002 Jetta
I have ran both the stock SMF luk and Sachs brand. I found the Sachs to be smoother starts but never had a problem with either one for hundreds of thousands of miles. But if you want a tune I it is better to put in the stronger clutch while you have it all apart.
 

benmarks

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 14, 2003
Location
Portland, OR
TDI
2004 Jetta GLS Sedan Platinum Gray
I'm not going to name them, but this photo came the shop doing my 4Motion conversion. I thought it was timely ;)

(And, none of those South Bends are mine either. My Stage 2 daily was being replaced.)

 

U4ick

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 16, 2014
Location
texas
TDI
2003 jetta tdi
Banksy.......I've got nothing constructive to add to this conversation but just because my curiosity is piqued, and re-reading this thread I can't find it, (doesn't mean it's not there) anywhere. What was the problem that had you in the market for a new clutch in the first place? Was it slipping? Chattering? What?

A VNT-17 and a 3 bar map is a definite indication that this car has been modded for more power. What clutch came out of it?
 

Banksy

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 23, 2021
Location
Pennsylvania
TDI
None
Well I noticed when on a hill the clutch would feel like it's slipping if I was parked and tried to take off on a incline.

The clutch never felt right. Best word would be weak. Stuttering. Not quite slipping but definitely not right.

I came to find out it had a stock clutch in it.
 

Genesis

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Feb 26, 2003
Location
Sevier County TN
TDI
'03 Jetta Wagon
Yikes.... with a 3bar tune and VNT17 you could definitely slip it, especially in 5th gear if you hammered it. They don't live long at all if you slip them.
 

mandrake slink

Well-known member
Joined
Jul 9, 2011
Location
Michigan
TDI
2003 Jetta TDI GLS
I like my Luk bolt-on clutch kit just fine in my car. Going on 2 years now, but I run stock engine everything in my commuter. From what I've read here though, its probably gonna slip/fail on tuned and turbo'd engines as does the DMF. Your feelings are probably correct and the next upgrade that system needs is a clutch that can handle existing and future upgrades.

For what its worth, don't bother with the rear main seal if there is no evidence of oil leakage. It isn't worth it, and the ability to do it right without dropping the oil pan too is variable. Bits of old sealant and oil pan sealant get in the way and you get weep holes/leakage. Cheers!

edit: my rear main seal that I replaced probably leaks a little bit. don't tell my wife...
 

Maddawg

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 10, 2017
Location
Strathroy Ontario Canada
TDI
Jetta 2003.500.000 kms. 2001JETTA TDI.
The Luk 17-050 kit comes assembled, complete. You just bolt it to the crank. You'll have to clip the new release bearing to the release lever, and I would recommend a new release lever and pivot pin. They can be worn, and they are cheap and easy to replace.... you do not want to take the transmission out again in 10k miles because the pivot wore through.
 

Maddawg

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 10, 2017
Location
Strathroy Ontario Canada
TDI
Jetta 2003.500.000 kms. 2001JETTA TDI.
The Luk 17-050 kit comes assembled, complete. You just bolt it to the crank. You'll have to clip the new release bearing to the release lever, and I would recommend a new release lever and pivot pin. They can be worn, and they are cheap and easy to replace.... you do not want to take the transmission out again in 10k miles because the pivot wore through.
I am ordering this kit but wasn't sure if I had to take apart and clean the flywheel and pressure plate. I read that you have to clean the oils the factory puts on them to prevent rust
 
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