Locktite argggghh!!!!!!

oldpoopie

Vendor
Joined
May 14, 2001
Location
Portland Oregon
TDI
2001 golf gl, 2006 jetta, 1981 ALH swapped rabbit pickup, 1998 beetle
Ok folks, its time for a little lesson. When applying locktite to a fastener, a little is better than a lot. Just a single drop will be plenty.
below is a photo of the red-loctited harmonic balancer bolts I removed from a car today, and the blue-loctited bolts I replaced them with... Look, learn, love.
Thank you for your time......:eek:
 

jetta 97

Vendor
Joined
Dec 25, 2008
Location
Dallas (McKinney) ,TX ,USA
TDI
2 X Jatta MK5 2006
For harmonic balancer does not need lock tight at all.
Never use it and never had one come out , as they being TTY bolts if they torque properly they will stay in place.
 

Herm TDI

Vendor
Joined
Nov 21, 2001
Location
Richmond, Maine...The far side of Witsend
TDI
2002 Golf GLS Malone Stage 3, P+520 nozzles, 11MM Inj pump, Sachs VR6 clutch, Stelth Race Pipe, Immo Deleat, EGR Deleat
Also remember that Loctite (and similar products) is sold with strength grades.
Low Strength: (Green) for fasteners <1⁄4" (6 mm). Easy disassembly using hand tools
Medium Strength: (Blue) Designed to be removable with standard hand tools on 1⁄4" to 3⁄4" fasteners
High Strength: (Red) Designed to deliver high strength on 1⁄4" to 3⁄4" (6 mm to 22 mm) fasteners. For removal, it may require localized heat (>550°F/260°C), hand tools, and disassembly while hot

Remember...What "Oldpoopie" said...If you must use it... use this stuff sparingly.
 

JDSwan87

Black Swamp Thing
Joined
Feb 9, 2014
Location
Michigan near Toledo
TDI
2001 Jetta TDI, 5 speed Lagoon Blue Metallic(sold); 2005 Jetta TDI Wagon auto
Also remember that Loctite (and similar products) is sold with strength grades.
Low Strength: (Green) for fasteners <1⁄4" (6 mm). Easy disassembly using hand tools
Medium Strength: (Blue) Designed to be removable with standard hand tools on 1⁄4" to 3⁄4" fasteners
High Strength: (Red) Designed to deliver high strength on 1⁄4" to 3⁄4" (6 mm to 22 mm) fasteners. For removal, it may require localized heat (>550°F/260°C), hand tools, and disassembly while hot

Remember...What "Oldpoopie" said...If you must use it... use this stuff sparingly.
. Just so everyone knows loctite also makes a retaining compound that is green and its WAAAY more potent than red loctite! The green retaining compound comes in the same style bottle so be sure you know what you're grabbing! We have used the green retaining compound on bushings that were a little under size and wasn't much of a press fit. The retaining compound will fill a .003 gap if I recall correctly.
 

kapps

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 23, 2013
Location
Orlando
TDI
2014 Golf 6MT
For a vibration environment, I'm surprised more automotive fasteners don't use a loctite. E options are locking inserts (helicoil), lock nuts, or loctite.

And I'll second the statement about green bearing retaining compound. It's standard procedure to use it to take up the gap in the drive axle to hub spline joint in my old Lotus. To get it apart, the hub has to be heated up with a torch.
 

oldpoopie

Vendor
Joined
May 14, 2001
Location
Portland Oregon
TDI
2001 golf gl, 2006 jetta, 1981 ALH swapped rabbit pickup, 1998 beetle
correct. Those bolts with the red had been in there for about 5 years and you could still smell the locktite.
 

runonbeer

Maintenance EnthusiastVendor
Joined
Apr 15, 2002
Location
Austin, TX/Chapel Hill, NC
TDI
'00 Golf 02M, '10 Golf 02E, '02 UTE 02M
Yeah it stinks too. I always associate the odor with what it would smell like if artificial orange flavored candy could rot.
 

Franko6

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
May 7, 2005
Location
Sw Missouri
TDI
Jetta, 99, Silver`
There are bolts with sealant from the factory... The ALH timing belt large roller bolt is such an example. But I have to agree. Loctite is over-applied, both for the purpose and the quantity. Properly torqued bolts are, for the greatest part, all you need.

The one bolt I feel reasonable to use a dot of blue Loctite is the ALH/ PD oil pump sprocket bolt. When removing them, they are tight enough to break a 45 torx, but as with the blue Loctite, a little heat and they come right out.

Loctite should be the exception; not the rule.
 

JB05

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 20, 2005
Location
Il.USA
TDI
Golf,2005,anthracite blue
A former neighbor had used Loctite and an impact wrench on a crank pulley on his Maxima. The over torqued pulley broke off while driving and we spent a few hours trying to loosen the bolt to no avail. He ended up driving to a local muffler shop who laid on it for a good 60 seconds with his impact and was finally able to undo the bolt. I did a search and found the correct torque to be 140.
 

whitedog

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2004
Location
Bend, Oregon
TDI
2004 Jetta that I fill by myself
Don't forget purple Loctite. It is number 222 and the only place I have used it is on injector wiring screws under the valve cover.

I have also used a clear that is between red and green.

Red (271) Features:

Designed to deliver high strength on ¼ " to ¾ " (6 mm to 22 mm) fasteners
Optimum temperature range is -65ºF to 550ºF
Disassembling requires localized heat (>550°F/260°C), hand tools, and disassembly while hot

Further research finds that the low strength green - 290 is wicking grade. It is used in preassembled fasteners.
 

whitedog

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2004
Location
Bend, Oregon
TDI
2004 Jetta that I fill by myself
A bit more looking found that there are different numbers for different grades of red. 271, 277 and 261 are the ones I found. I guess my point is to re-emphasize that you can't go by color, but you need to go by number.
 

A5INKY

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Sep 4, 2007
Location
Louisville, KY
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI, 2002 Eurovan Westphalia VR6
Good PSA thread. This is one of those lessons so many of us take for granted but is done wrong by too many.

A few weeks back was doing a MKIV clutch and got to the horizontal trans mount bracket bolts and they were seized tight. Broke the head off the first one with almost no effort just using a ratchet. Was able to apply a little heat and gently work the other two back and forth and eventually out. They were absolutely covered in loctite just like the pics in post #1. The broken bolt had to be drilled completely through before I could get it out in pieces. Fortunately the hole that remained was tight enough to helicoil it.

I think the last mechanic reused the TTY bolts and thought ridiculous overuse of loctite would make up for his folly. Loctite does not "unyield" a TTY fastener!

The more TDIs I wrench on the more I appreciate working on a newer car that haven't been boobytrapped with goofy things like this yet. IMO the more mods I see the greater potential for time sucking traps that shouldn't be there.
 

runonbeer

Maintenance EnthusiastVendor
Joined
Apr 15, 2002
Location
Austin, TX/Chapel Hill, NC
TDI
'00 Golf 02M, '10 Golf 02E, '02 UTE 02M
Good PSA thread. This is one of those lessons so many of us take for granted but is done wrong by too many.
A few weeks back was doing a MKIV clutch and got to the horizontal trans mount bracket bolts and they were seized tight. Broke the head off the first one with almost no effort just using a ratchet. Was able to apply a little heat and gently work the other two back and forth and eventually out. They were absolutely covered in loctite just like the pics in post #1. The broken bolt had to be drilled completely through before I could get it out in pieces. Fortunately the hole that remained was tight enough to helicoil it.
I think the last mechanic reused the TTY bolts and thought ridiculous overuse of loctite would make up for his folly. Loctite does not "unyield" a TTY fastener!
The more TDIs I wrench on the more I appreciate working on a newer car that haven't been boobytrapped with goofy things like this yet. IMO the more mods I see the greater potential for time sucking traps that shouldn't be there.
Geez, as if those things wern't hard enough to get out as it is. It's like someone hits the slow-mo button on my Matco 3/8" imact gun when I'm pulling those. Any other bolt that long and the same gun pulls it out in 1/2 a nanosecond.
 

jasonTDI

TDI GURU Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Apr 26, 2001
Location
Oregon, WI
TDI
20' RAM 3500 CCLB dually HO/Aisan. 2019 Cherokee 2.0T
Yep, the trans bolts are sealed from the factory. I try them, if they don't budge, they get heated. Come right out. The only other part that get loctite is the water pump bolts on a brm. I've seen more than a few back out and take the belt out.
 

A5INKY

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Sep 4, 2007
Location
Louisville, KY
TDI
2006 Jetta TDI, 2002 Eurovan Westphalia VR6
No way did VW red loctite those bolts along all the approx 1.5" of thread engagement on the trans I spoke of. Those bolts looked like they had been dipped up to the head in the stuff.
 

jasonTDI

TDI GURU Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Apr 26, 2001
Location
Oregon, WI
TDI
20' RAM 3500 CCLB dually HO/Aisan. 2019 Cherokee 2.0T
Didn't say they did in red. But they ALL have thread locker on the bolts in varying amounts. From a couple threads to the whole bolt. I've seen more than a couple of these....
 

Slurry Pumper

Veteran Member
Joined
Sep 13, 2012
Location
Allentown PA
TDI
2010 Jetta Sedan
What product wins the fight?

Loctite or Never Seez when both applied in equal amounts on the same bolt, and in the same general location.
 

whitedog

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2004
Location
Bend, Oregon
TDI
2004 Jetta that I fill by myself
Since the never seez will form a barrier between the bolt and the hole, the never seez wins.
 

Franko6

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
May 7, 2005
Location
Sw Missouri
TDI
Jetta, 99, Silver`
I'd be happy if ppl could figure out torque settings... How often are mechanics going into a 'non-virgin' car, wishing the previous hands had kept out...

There are very few bolts of every and any kind prone to coming loose if properly installed. I can't imagine engineers designing a bolt meant to fail by coming loose, so what's with all the loctite? Almost all of bolts, screws and nuts were designed to be installed WITHOUT ANYTHING, including loctite, antisieze, oil... Most of the thread treatments are misused.

The Flywheel bolts and the ALH big roller bolt are two exceptions that I can think of for these cars, but we use the factory bolts with pre-applied thread locker.
 

runonbeer

Maintenance EnthusiastVendor
Joined
Apr 15, 2002
Location
Austin, TX/Chapel Hill, NC
TDI
'00 Golf 02M, '10 Golf 02E, '02 UTE 02M
The Flywheel bolts and the ALH big roller bolt are two exceptions that I can think of for these cars, but we use the factory bolts with pre-applied thread locker.
I am of the opinion that the stuff on FW bolts is less a thread lock than it is a sealant to keep oil from coming out the holes.

And the updated large roller bolt is just a bare bolt.
 
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