Lift/Inline Pump Options

darkscout

Grammar Scout
Joined
May 28, 2006
Location
Michigan
TDI
2003 Golf
All the other threads I've found are old and really just talk about one or two options at a time. In 5 years when this thread is old hopefully someone compiles a set of new options.
If some people could help me fill in the unknowns.

PD In-Tank Lift Pump.
Make: VW
Availability: IDParts BoraParts
Price: $200-230.
Pressure: ??
Flow: ??
Dry Lift: N/A
Type: Centrifugal
Flow on Failure: Yes(?)

Facet High Performance Gold-Flo
Make: Motor Components, LLC
Availability: NAPA, online vendors
Price: $85
Pressure: 1 - 8 psi
Flow: 20 - 45 GPH
Dry Lift: 12 - 24 inches
Type: Centrifugal
Flow on Failure: ??
Link: http://www.facet-purolator.com/gold-flo.php

Facet Cube
Make: Motor Components, LLC
Availability: NAPA, online vendors
Price: $70-90
Pressure: 1 - 15 psi
Flow: 6 - 50 GPH
Dry Lift: 12 - 84 inches
Type: Centrifugal
Flow on Failure: ??
Link: http://www.facet-purolator.com/cube-fuel-pumps.php

Facet Posi-Flo
Make: Motor Components, LLC
Availability: NAPA, online vendors
Price: $50-90
Pressure: 1.5 - 10 psi
Flow: 23 - 40 GPH
Dry Lift: 12 - 50 inches
Type: Centrifugal
Flow on Failure: ??
Link: http://www.facet-purolator.com/posi-flo-pumps.php

Kennedy Diesel Duramax lift pump
Availability: Kennedy Diesel
Price: $195
Pressure: 4 psi
Flow: ?
Dry Lift: 12 - 84 inches
Type: Centrifugal
Flow on Failure: "Virtually unrestricted"
Link: http://www.kennedydiesel.com/detail.cfm?ID=399

Mr. Gasket Micro Fuel Pump
Availability: Mr. Gasket, online vendors.
Price: ~$60
Pressure: 4-7 psi
Flow: 35 GPH
Dry Lift: None (Install lower than the pump)
Flow on Failure: ??
Link: http://mr-gasket.com/air-and-fuel-systems/fuel-pumps/micro-electric-fuel-pump-diesel.html

Carter P4070
Price: $80
Pressure: 4-7 psi
Flow: 72 gph
Dry Lift: None
Type: Rotary Vane
Flow on Failure: ??
Link:

Walbro FRA/FRB/FRC/FRD
Price: ~$130-160
Pressure: 2.5-16
Flow: 10-50 gph
Dry Lift: 24-120 "
Flow on Failure: ??
Link: http://autoperformanceengineering.com/html/fr_pumps.html
 
Last edited:

burpod

teh stallionz!!1
Joined
Nov 27, 2004
Location
cape cod, ma
TDI
82 rabbit vnt ahu, 98 jetta vnt ahu, 05 parts car, 88 scirocco.. :/
nice list! i've been wanting a thread like this for sometime. i would like to see what other pumps are out there that would work for the tdi. in the meantime, i've just used the mr. gasket one for my mk1 and mk3 since it's readily available at autozone.. but i'm a little skeptical about the quality. i have had one fail (i think because i didn't mount it on rubber cushions, so the vibrations from itself perhaps caused the pump to eat itself???)... and it did cause restriction enough to cause bubbles and kill the engine. so that's not so great either to have happen on a road trip or some other inconvenient time...
 

darkscout

Grammar Scout
Joined
May 28, 2006
Location
Michigan
TDI
2003 Golf
I can't seem to find a difference between the Posi-Flo and Cube other than most Cube's have check valves and a higher static lift. I'm probably going to go with one of these so that I can mount it in my engine bay. With the right fittings I should be able to have it feed directly into my new 1 micron nicktane filter.
 

burpod

teh stallionz!!1
Joined
Nov 27, 2004
Location
cape cod, ma
TDI
82 rabbit vnt ahu, 98 jetta vnt ahu, 05 parts car, 88 scirocco.. :/
i hadn't heard of the facet pumps, but i'd be very interested in how they work out. the psi/gph seems pretty close to what we want, i *think*....
 

darkscout

Grammar Scout
Joined
May 28, 2006
Location
Michigan
TDI
2003 Golf
Either have I. I put in a request to their engineering team for some more info. Especially interested if they think an engine mounted pump would work.

Right now I'm looking at the:

Posi-Flo 60200. 3-4.5 PSI. 35 GPH. Check Valve. 50" dry lift.

I just heard back from them:

Thank you for your email and interest in Facet fuel pumps. I believe our fuel pumps will work in your application. This is a typical installation for our priming pumps but I would like to talk with you to understand a bit more. The Cube and POSI-FLO fuel pumps are just about the same and you are correct by stating that the major difference is the case. The pump will allow fuel flow through it if turned off or if it fails providing you don’t install a pump with an internal positive shutoff valve which I don’t believe you are. The models with internal check valves are fine. Is there a good time for me to give you a quick call?
This is really looking like a great option for us especially since it's available at any NAPA (it may be special order though).

Here is the NAPA decoder ring: http://facet-purolator.com/pdf/balkamp.pdf
 
Last edited:

darkscout

Grammar Scout
Joined
May 28, 2006
Location
Michigan
TDI
2003 Golf
Last edited:

darkscout

Grammar Scout
Joined
May 28, 2006
Location
Michigan
TDI
2003 Golf
For the guys out on left field, Fuelab now has a diesel specific lift pump set at 8-10psi pressure and 100gph. Brushless and 2 year unconditional warranty with any fuel except WVO/SVO. http://fuelab.com/products/diesel/v...ocity_100_in_line_high_performance_lift_pump/
Maybe if I was putting a TDI in an airplane. But for my car I could put 10 of the one I got in for that amount. Or if I needed double the flow I could put in 2 back to back.

Plus part of why I chose what I did was the ability to do static lift. I wanted to be able to do all maintenance from under the hood.
 

darkscout

Grammar Scout
Joined
May 28, 2006
Location
Michigan
TDI
2003 Golf
Add this one to the list:

Carter P4601HP
Could you shoot some video if it? As you can hear in my videos the Posi-flo is really loud when priming and then it's almost dead silent. The car in the background and my fingers snapping were much louder.
 

diffas

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2008
Location
Finland
TDI
B5q A4 Avant 2.5TDi+, B7q A4 Avant 3.0TDi
What about Raptor / Air dog systems? Used in high output trucks.
 

burpod

teh stallionz!!1
Joined
Nov 27, 2004
Location
cape cod, ma
TDI
82 rabbit vnt ahu, 98 jetta vnt ahu, 05 parts car, 88 scirocco.. :/
thanks for all the links to various pumps!
 

Whitbread

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Jan 21, 2007
Location
Johannesburg, MI
TDI
Several
Yowza, nearly 500 bones! Definitely an awesome sounding pump though.
Maybe if you buy them from the most expensive place possible after 3 middle men have each added their markup. I'm a dealer from fualab and the cost on one of them shipped to your door is $130 over what ID Parts sells a Bew in tank lift pump for. If your car needs something beyond a Bew in tank unit, that's a drop in your project bucket.

Fast, cheap, reliable. Pick 2.
 
Last edited:

loudspl

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2005
Location
Osakis, Minnesota
TDI
02 ASV w/ 02J
What about Raptor / Air dog systems? Used in high output trucks.
Those are uber overkill.

On low speed, my Fuelab does 10psi @ 100GPH and high speed 15psi @160GPH

Even that is overkill. But it's not loud, has good warranty/service, not too expensive and reliable :)
 

vanbcguy

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2013
Location
Vancouver, BC
TDI
'93 Passat - AHU mTDI with GTB1756VK
Maybe if you buy them from the most expensive place possible after 3 middle men have each added their markup. I'm a dealer from fualab and the cost on one of them shipped to your door is $130 over what ID Parts sells a Bew in tank lift pump for. If your car needs something beyond a Bew in tank unit, that's a drop in your project bucket.

Fast, cheap, reliable. Pick 2.
Just looked at the price on the first Google match is all. And yep, if your build is big enough to need a pump like that it is probably a great choice.
 

diffas

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2008
Location
Finland
TDI
B5q A4 Avant 2.5TDi+, B7q A4 Avant 3.0TDi
Those are uber overkill.
On low speed, my Fuelab does 10psi @ 100GPH and high speed 15psi @160GPH
Even that is overkill. But it's not loud, has good warranty/service, not too expensive and reliable :)
There are different versions of airdog/raptor out there. I think 100gph is enough flow in most cases. My VP flows about 95l/h on idle, it probably flows some more on revs...dunno how much more. :D Fuelab pump would be nice one try to.
 

Lensdude_com

Veteran Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2004
Location
Edmonton, AB
TDI
99.5 MK4 Jetta (ALH) "Betty" (sold), 2005 MK4 Jetta (BEW) "Stinky-Pete"
I don't understand the need for 100+ GPH when at 62 mph my car only uses 1.3 GPH.
Dark Scout's list is more than complete for the needs most road legal TDI cars ;)
 

diffas

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2008
Location
Finland
TDI
B5q A4 Avant 2.5TDi+, B7q A4 Avant 3.0TDi
Pretty low readings you have. How you measured it? I measured from return line @ idle. Thats about 25gph... dunno how much it increases on high revs.
 

robnitro

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 19, 2004
Location
NYC area, NY
TDI
2001 Jetta TDI GLS silver
I don't understand the need for 100+ GPH when at 62 mph my car only uses 1.3 GPH.
Dark Scout's list is more than complete for the needs most road legal TDI cars ;)
We aren't talking about fuel consumed which is quite low.
The VP rotary pump flows fuel through it and returns most of it.
To keep the high pressure side happy, there has to be enough pressure and flow through the vane pump (which returns most of the fuel).
That is why people have higher numbers than you are mentioning.

In my case, I have a cheapo carter solenoid pump near the tank. It doesn't flow too much GPM, so to keep the flow through the vane pump, I did a restricted return. Some of the fuel that comes out of the pump loops to a fuel cooler and back into the filter and inlet. The small return lines from the injectors and pump goes to the tank return line with a viton check valve. This ensures that I don't lose pressure at the inlet of the pump with my low GPM carter pump.
 

darkscout

Grammar Scout
Joined
May 28, 2006
Location
Michigan
TDI
2003 Golf
It's ALIVE....



Just ran to the store. It's still hardwired meaning I either leave it running when I go into the store or I disconnect it. It flows through fine when the power is disconnected. (Actually drove home from the store with it off). I went to the store and got some hardware to fab up a place for it to live. I measured and it only consumes 1.5A so I'm going to try and get away with a MOSFET instead of a relay.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNW68o5uXRQ&feature=youtu.be
 

fouckhest

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 26, 2007
Location
g'vegs, sc
TDI
.:GTD, .:R32, DangerRanger
wire up a toggle switch, thats what i do with my car....that way if you ever break open a fuel line you can use it to prime the system...otherwise if im just tooling around town, i leave it off, then if im going to hammer on it, just flip the switch to ensure that i done starve for fuel
 

darkscout

Grammar Scout
Joined
May 28, 2006
Location
Michigan
TDI
2003 Golf
1.5 A @ 12 V. That's no small MOSFET. Plan on using the dad's sheet metal for a heatsink?
That's an itty bitty MOSFET, your standard size. Much smaller than a relay. I was probably going to drill a hole in the radiator mounting how you'd normally mount a relay and just put the FET on that.
 

darkscout

Grammar Scout
Joined
May 28, 2006
Location
Michigan
TDI
2003 Golf
Some install pictures.

So I didn't like the height of it if I put it on the side sheet metal. So I hacked away at the plastic and got it to fit under. The spacing of the motor holes was dead on for the spacing of just some random bracket at the hardware store. I got 2 6mm speed nuts and 2x 6mmx20mm bolts and clamped right on. It holds firm and feels pretty steady. I'm hoping the bolt and bar take most of the vibration and I don't snap off the pump plastic. I'll trim the metal bar down and sand it when I get time, but for now it's kind of great. Also, sheet metal + drill bit = sharp burrs.



Now for some semi-permanent wiring and I'll have myself a nice little lift pump. Obviously no back to back dynos and I'm sure the 11mm made a bigger difference than the lift pump, but it's nice to know it always has fuel. Chirped it in 3rd gear on dry pavement today.
 

burpod

teh stallionz!!1
Joined
Nov 27, 2004
Location
cape cod, ma
TDI
82 rabbit vnt ahu, 98 jetta vnt ahu, 05 parts car, 88 scirocco.. :/
will the pump vibrate itself too much mounted like that? i dunno, but might be a good idea to mount it in a housing in some foam. maybe i'm paranoid, but i feel that's what killed my mr. gasket lift pump (of course the quality of that is questionable). the mk1/mk2s had "lift pumps" mounted in such a way, fwiw.
 

GTiTDi

TDIClub Enthusiast, Macht Schnell! Vendor , w/Busi
Joined
Oct 18, 2010
Location
3 Spruce st Wareham, gateway to Cape Cod Massachus
TDI
'91 GTI CJAA swap,'02 Jetta wagon ALH swap, '03 GTI 1.8T rally car, '03 Sprinter 3500
will the pump vibrate itself too much mounted like that? i dunno, but might be a good idea to mount it in a housing in some foam. maybe i'm paranoid, but i feel that's what killed my mr. gasket lift pump (of course the quality of that is questionable). the mk1/mk2s had "lift pumps" mounted in such a way, fwiw.
The one on my GTI (cheapo mr. gasket) is mounted on a bracket that is fixed rigidly to strut tower on passenger side..no issues so far paranoid pod!

On another note, I came up w a clever way to use the stock lift pump on a B4VGLX swap...details soon
 
Last edited:
Top