Lift for TDI Sportwagen (for oversize tires)

[Zygote Bros]

OK...so I more or less lurked on here after I got my 2014 TDI Sportwagen. After going through this thread many times, I lifted my wagen with the OEM Tiguan 2wd front springs and rear Jetta towing springs with Koni Sports all around. Put on some Conti 205x60x16 tires. Also installed a GTI 21mm rear sway bar. So far, so good.

Until...a few weeks ago. I put myself in a bad position (my fault) and had to make a panic stop. Well, the car didn't stop as well as I thought and I ended up rear ending the car in front of me. I'm waiting to find out if my car is totalled.

I could be wrong, but I think part of the problem (other than my driving) is the rear was too high, the rear tires were scraping for traction (rear Jetta Koni struts). The car went a little further than expected.

So now I am back for more advice. From what I read, the Tiguan 4wd (non HD) rear springs would lower the back about a half inch, with about the same spring strength as the Jetta towing springs. And the Tiguan rear struts would allow some extra wheel travel. Am I correct in my assumptions?

Also it's not clear to me if I should buy Tiguan 2wd rear struts or Tiguan 4wd rear struts. For some reason I thought the Tiguan 4wd struts don't fit, can someone answer that question?

Thanks! I love my TDI wagen and hate I'm in this predicament...

 

[Geordi]

I'm not sure that changing the springs in the back would change the situation, when you are stopping, 70% of the stopping force is handled by the front wheels and only 30% by the back. Unless the wheels actually left the ground (unlikely) the handling or stopping performance shouldn't be changed by just lifting the car.

 

[JediJoker]

I could be wrong, but I think part of the problem (other than my driving) is the rear was too high, the rear tires were scraping for traction (rear Jetta Koni struts). The car went a little further than expected.

I think it's more likely that the change in rolling diameter has negatively impacted ABS functionality. That, and perhaps these tires don't have as much braking traction as you're accustomed to.

 

[Zygote Bros]

I think it's more likely that the change in rolling diameter has negatively impacted ABS functionality. That, and perhaps these tires don't have as much braking traction as you're accustomed to.

Can you explain this? Not sure how ABS would be affected by tires that are only a half inch taller. It's possible the tires I have don't have good traction, but they aren't cheapo tires.

I'm not sure that changing the springs in the back would change the situation, when you are stopping, 70% of the stopping force is handled by the front wheels and only 30% by the back. Unless the wheels actually left the ground (unlikely) the handling or stopping performance shouldn't be changed by just lifting the car.

Well, alignment settings are affected a bit as the rear end goes up. And though I don't think the rear lifted, it's possible traction was affected especially if the Koni's were at full extension.

My goal is to move the balance of weight towards the rear, improve alignment slightly and allow more travel with the Tiguan struts. All minute improvements I now, but I believe it would help, especially the struts.

 

[Zygote Bros]

Update...my Jetta was totaled. After some confusion with the DMV and VW, I got my money and bought a clone (2014 Jetta Sportwagen, Moonrock Silver with DSG). Wife is happy.
Before I raise the car again (yes I am!) I did more research into the rear springs. Definitely going with the Tiguan 2wd fronts. As for the rear, I wasn't really sure I wanted the JSW towing springs again. Tried to look for spring specs and wasn't too successful until I came upon this site:

https://www.onlinecarparts.co.uk/spares-search.html?keyword=1K0511115CT

Starting putting in parts numbers and used the specs for Suplex Springs. I came up with this:

VW Part Number/Length (mm)/Thickness (mm)/Outer Diameter (mm)/Weight (kg)
3C0511115AD 350 12.75 118 2.40
3C0511115AF 358 12.75 118 2.45
3C0511115AG 362 13.00 118 2.55
1K0511115CG 351 13.25 120 2.65
1K0511115CT 383 13.00 117 2.80

Thought the results were interesting. It makes me wonder if I should consider the "AG" or "CG" springs. Suplex claims a 1.5" lift with the "AD" springs and over 2" (probably 2.25 or so) with the "CT" towing springs. So the "AG" springs should represent a happy medium. Any feedback on this would be appreciated.

And this time around I will be going with 225x50x17 tires...

 

[wally_world_jb]

@Zygote Bros what did you do?

I recently bought a post-dieselgate CPO JSW and am about to lift it. Definately going with the Tiguan 2WD springs up front and am on the fence between the towing springs or the Tiguan 4WD springs on the rear. Gonna keep stock struts as they have only 70k miles on them. Bumping up .5 inches on tires to 215 55 16 as well.

Sent from my LM-Q610(FGN) using Tapatalk

 

[Zygote Bros]

@Zygote Bros what did you do?

I recently bought a post-dieselgate CPO JSW and am about to lift it. Definately going with the Tiguan 2WD springs up front and am on the fence between the towing springs or the Tiguan 4WD springs on the rear. Gonna keep stock struts as they have only 70k miles on them. Bumping up .5 inches on tires to 215 55 16 as well.

Sent from my LM-Q610(FGN) using Tapatalk

I'll update here. Will probably be a couple of weeks.

Bought the Tiguan rear springs (3C0511115AG). The Koni Special Active struts should be here soon. ID Parts was backordered for the front springs, I'm probably going to order OEMs from somewhere else.

I thought the towing springs were too high for my taste, though I understand why people bought them. Was great when the car was loaded, but I don't load the car too often.
The "AG" Tiguan springs appear to be a little stronger and taller than the "AD" springs, so I'm hoping for a good compromise compared to the Jetta Towing Springs.

I'm not a big fan of using used stock struts (or even new stock ones) when going with stiffer springs. I'd rather just spend the money and do it once. Plus the fact you really need greater damping when raising spring rates by 30%. For now I'm still using Jetta rear struts. I had some top out issues with the Koni Sports. Again, lowering the rear a bit and using Special Actives should help. If not, Tiguan rear struts are next.

I may hunt for a GLI/Passat rear bar too (21mm). Had that on the old wagen too and through understeer was reduced, I was disappointed I couldn't get a little front end tuck when lifting the throttle. But it may have been be a combination of a high a rear end and skinny tires...we'll see what happens this time around...

 

[wally_world_jb]

Maybe try europaparts?

This looks to be rear springs you mentioned, and they appear to have the fronts in stock, too:
https://www.europaparts.com/coil-spring-3c0511115ak.html

https://www.europaparts.com/coil-spring-1k0411105ej.html



Sent from my LM-Q610(FGN) using Tapatalk

 

[Zygote Bros]

Maybe try europaparts?

This looks to be rear springs you mentioned, and they appear to have the fronts in stock, too:
https://www.europaparts.com/coil-spring-3c0511115ak.html

https://www.europaparts.com/coil-spring-1k0411105ej.html


Sent from my LM-Q610(FGN) using Tapatalk

I don't know...I put in the part number into the website from my link and got this:

VW Part Number/Length (mm)/Thickness (mm)/Outer Diameter (mm)/Weight (kg)
3C0511115AK 357 13.50 118 2.80

So these springs are stronger than the Jetta Towing Springs (thicker wire). The overall weight of the spring is the same (2.8 kg) since it's shorter. I don't know how they would compare to what I bought, other than they would be stiffer.

I got the "AG" springs because they were slightly stronger and longer than the "AD" springs. The wire thickness is the same as the Jetta towing springs.

All the different part numbers they list in your website represent different springs which fit the Tiguan. But there are variations based on options (engine, options, 2wd vs. 4wd, etc...) so they're not the same spring.

It's a crap shoot but all I know is I didn't want the "AD" springs (a little too short and too soft, based on what I've researched) and I didn't want the towing springs again. I wanted the strength of the towing spring but a little shorter.

 

[SomeJ]

Iv been running the lifted setup for about 90k miles now... The 4wd Tig sprigs look good for a while, but if you tow anything or haul lots of wight in the back, they wear out fast. Only got about 40k miles on mine before they sagged so bad they toasted my rear tires. The towing springs though... Very happy with them. Don't sag nearly as much with lots of weight or when towing, and so far have lasted longer than the Tig springs and still feel and look like they did on day 1.


For sure go the towing springs. You will be happy.


*Edit. Thinking back more... I didn't have the AWD Tig springs in back, but the Tig lifter springs. Looked good but did not last. Also I've been using the same set of used 2wd Tig springs in the front for this 90k miles and they are holding up like champs. The stock shocks and struts though... Totally different story.




J

 

[LiftedTDI]

Hey guys, took the advice in this thread and got the GF's wagen lifted mainly to deal with bottoming out and the bad roads around here.

Went with parts from IDparts.com
Tiguan Front Springs
VW Rear Towing Springs
Koni STR.T Struts/Shocks

BFG 205/65r16 on the stock wheels.

Very happy with the tires. These should measure out to a 26.4" OD. No rubbing anywhere lock to lock or over bumps.

Ill try posting some pictures

 

[Geordi]

Might want to resize those down to an 800x600, but they look great. Beefy.

I haven't done the suspension on mine yet, but just got new Bridgestone Turanza 205/60/16 from Costco on it. Just under $500 - ouch. Thankfully they didn't quibble much about putting that size on, next time I *might* try to jump up one more, but these ride pretty decently for the moment. I'll see how many miles I get from them however.

 

[D-Cup]

Just mounted 225/50-18 on my 2010 Cup Edition.
Went with Bridgestone RE980 Sport from Discount Tire.
Had a rubbing issue on the rear passenger side - the fuel filler neck eats up some room in the wheel well, so I ordered some 10mm spacers & longer bolts from ECS tuning.
I was afraid they would make the stance look retarded, but it’s not even noticeable, and tires clear the wheel well liner just fine.
Very happy with outcome and tires have a 50k mile tread-wear warranty.

EDIT: I did have to go in to VCDS and change the speedo impulse to option 01 - VW Tiguan. GPS has me tracking about 1mph faster than what speedo reads from 40-60mph, and about 2mph faster north of 65mph.
My speedometer & GPS were spot on with each other with the stock size of 225/40-18.

 

[wally_world_jb]

Did it!

Did it!

FWD Tiguan springs up front, Sportwagen towing springs rear. About $300 from europaparts online. Installed by local independent shop for 3 hrs labor + alignment.

215/55-16 Hankook VentusV2 tires on stock wheels providing about .5" extra tire sidewall. Less than $300 for 4 on eBay. Installed for about $100 by another local independent shop. Grippy-ish, but very smooth ride.

Stock struts, 2012 post-dieselgate CPO with less than 80,000 miles.

Overall 1.5" lift up front, 2" rear.

2000 miles later the ride is GREAT when loaded up for a road trip and the tail is a wee bit bouncy when unloaded. I can live with it.

Speedo is off a tic or two with larger tires, but within expectations: https://tiresize.com/comparison/

Would do it again in a heartbeat!

Before:

After:

 

[Zygote Bros]

OK, I promised a report...my suspension was installed today!

To refresh everybody's memory, this is what I bought:

Front Springs: part number 5N0411105T
Rear Springs: part number 3C0511115AG
Struts: Koni Special Actives


The springs are OEM and bought online at Jim Ellis VW, Atlanta. The struts were bought online at ID Parts.

My first impression, this is an EXCELLENT setup. The rear is probably 1/2+" inch lower than Jetta Towing Springs. I forgot to measure before the install, but my impression is about 1.5 inches higher in front and 1.5-1.75 inches higher in the rear. It seems to handle better than my old car (Jetta Towing Springs in rear with Koni Yellows). It definitely rides well. It wasn't bad in my old car, but it is smoother now and still has adequate damping. Personal preference is I'd prefer the struts to have little more rebound, but otherwise it's great. Suspension should have enough strength to handle a loaded car (wire thickness is the same as Jetta Towing springs according to Suplex specs).

My intention is to raise the car to not only get more ground clearance, but for ease of entry into the car (the wife demanded it be raised...who am I to argue that!!). I will not be doing much towing or "offroading". I think if I wanted even stiffer rear springs, I would go with the slightly stiffer 1K0511115CG or the even stiffer 3C0511115AK which would not raise the rear the extra 1/2+". It would be interesting to see if someone goes that route (if they haven't already...there have been so many combinations discussed). I thought the Jetta Towing springs were a bit high for me.

And now, the pictures (with a full tank of diesel)! I'll be putting on the larger tires soon...and I suspect a search for a GLI/GTI/Passat 22mm rear bar...

Front wheel arch height:

Rear wheel arch height:

 

[wally_world_jb]

Looks great @ZygoteBros ! -- and visually similar to my results as well. I look forward to hearing updates down the road to see how it's working out, and I'll do the same!

 

[Zygote Bros]

Thanks! It's hard to tell from the pictures, but the car was raised evenly front and rear. Perhaps a 1/4" more in the rear. Does not have as much rake front to rear compared with the Jetta Towing springs.

 

[D-Cup]

Wondering if anyone has run BF Goodrich AT-KO2 in size 215/65-16 on their lifted Sportwagen or Jetta?
I just finished a camping road trip across TX, NM, & AZ in my “new” 2012 JSW and employed my Panzer Plate a little more than I wanted. So I’m wondering if these would actually fit?
I mounted 225/50-18 on my 2010 Jetta which required spacers for the rear tire as to clear the wheel-well liner - wondering if spacers would be required to fit the BFG-ATs.

 

[Zygote Bros]

Looks great @ZygoteBros ! -- and visually similar to my results as well. I look forward to hearing updates down the road to see how it's working out, and I'll do the same!

Just got back from a 1500+ mile trip. Here's the verdict:

1. Car sits perfectly for me. Raised pretty evenly all around, perhaps slightly more in the rear, but not like the Jetta towing springs.

2. Still think the rear needs stiffer rear struts. The back end wallows a bit. May consider either Koni Special Active for a Tiguan or Bilstein HD for a Jetta. Koni Special Active for the front seems to be pretty good.

3. Tires are perfect! 225x50x17 Continentals on OEM 17x7 Vision V wheels. Seems to be a pretty small effect on gas mileage over the stock setup, I averaged a "corrected" 35-38 mpg on the trip so I was pleasantly surprised.

4. Car needs an upgraded rear sway bar. Too much understeer.

That's my story, here's a pic!

 

[AllieJetta]

Firstly, please please resize your photo, it's way too big and causes the formatting all out for the page.

Second, whats your measured height from road to bottom lips of fenders F / R? I just installed the Tiguan front springs and Euro Tow Springs rear with 225/50R17 tires on my car as well, with the Koni shocks front and rear and it seems to sit differently from yours.

 

[Zygote Bros]

Firstly, please please resize your photo, it's way too big and causes the formatting all out for the page.

Second, whats your measured height from road to bottom lips of fenders F / R? I just installed the Tiguan front springs and Euro Tow Springs rear with 225/50R17 tires on my car as well, with the Koni shocks front and rear and it seems to sit differently from yours.

Where on the bottom lips of the fenders do you want me to measure? At the rocker panel? I did measure previously at the top of the fender arch (see my post on 7/9/19, before I installed the larger tires/wheels).

I have Tiguan rear springs, part number 3C0511115AG (see post on 5/28/19). This spring sits at least a 1/2 inch or so lower than the towing springs.

 

[AllieJetta]

Zygote - So your final measurements to the top of the fender lip was approx 27.75 FR / 28 RR? Interesting.

Wally World - Looking at your final measurements you're sitting at approximately the same? Seems unusual since you're both using different springs.

Obviously tires play a large part in this measurement, but I just installed the Tiguan fronts and Towing rear with the Koni Actives, and I am sitting at around 29" overall, with 205/55/17 Tires. I found the ride better now than with stock struts and springs. I'll be installing 205/65/16 snow tires for the winter as well.

 

[Zygote Bros]

Zygote - So your final measurements to the top of the fender lip was approx 27.75 FR / 28 RR? Interesting.

Wally World - Looking at your final measurements you're sitting at approximately the same? Seems unusual since you're both using different springs.

Obviously tires play a large part in this measurement, but I just installed the Tiguan fronts and Towing rear with the Koni Actives, and I am sitting at around 29" overall, with 205/55/17 Tires. I found the ride better now than with stock struts and springs. I'll be installing 205/65/16 snow tires for the winter as well.

Just went to the garage to measure again. The previous measurements were with the stock tires. With the 225x50x17 tires, the measurements are now 28" and 28 1/4" with a nearly full tank of fuel.

The towing springs I had on the previous wagen were a 1/2" higher in the rear. The rake was noticeably different. I had Koni Yellows on that car (shouldn't make a difference, though).

Based on the Suplex specs I had listed for the various Tiguan springs, the "AG" springs did exactly what I expected compared to the towing springs. You really need to have cars side by side to compare.

 

[disastrogirl]

Hi, lifted people!



I'm wondering if your lift has affected your fuel mileage.

 

[wally_world_jb]

Hi, lifted people!



I'm wondering if your lift has affected your fuel mileage.

Haven't seen any change...I'm consistently averaging 35-36 around town and 40-42 highway, depending on how loaded up I am. DSG. Riding on LLR touring tires, not super-sticky performance tires.

3 months, two road trips, and several thousand miles since lifting and I'd do it again in a heartbeat.

Sent from my LM-Q610(FGN) using Tapatalk

 

[Drclaw]

Just ordered koni ASD struts. Planning on pairing with the idparts spring kit. Any good tutorial on doing the work?

 

[Zygote Bros]

Hi, lifted people!



I'm wondering if your lift has affected your fuel mileage.

I don't think the lift itself affects fuel mileage much, it will depend more on what wheel/tire combination you put on after the lift. I'm guessing I lost 1 mpg with my wheel/tire combination (36-37 highway currently).

 

[Drclaw]

Could use a little help. I installed the koni reds and vw towing springs on the rear this past weekend. I have the hardware for the front but haven't done them yet. Install went fine, no real issues. I've been driving the car the last two days, 30 miles each day, and today I noticed a very faint speed depdnednt knock on the rear tire. Sounds like it's coming from the driver side rear. Very faint but there. I haven't gotten an alignment yet because I'm going to so the fronts this coming weekend.

Thoughts on what this could be? I pulled off the tire wheel well liners to clean and reinstalled on both sides. I did a quick visual check and didn't see anything obvious but haven't gotten under the car yet.


I should also mention that I had trouble with the strut top but when installing. The koni instructions were difficult to follow as they showed multiple configurations. My struts came with two top nuts per strut. They were both nylock nuts. I was able to get the first one started and put an Allen key in the middle of the strut then co your torquing with a ratcheting wrench. I snugged that down (didn't torque to spec) since I couldn't get a torque wrench on it, and then put the other bolt ontop and tightened that down. I'm guessing this is my issue. Does everyone use that vw strut socket tool when installing atruts? Anyone have experience with using the double nut setup?
Thanks in advance!

 

[Zygote Bros]

Could use a little help. I installed the koni reds and vw towing springs on the rear this past weekend. I have the hardware for the front but haven't done them yet. Install went fine, no real issues. I've been driving the car the last two days, 30 miles each day, and today I noticed a very faint speed depdnednt knock on the rear tire. Sounds like it's coming from the driver side rear. Very faint but there. I haven't gotten an alignment yet because I'm going to so the fronts this coming weekend.

Thoughts on what this could be? I pulled off the tire wheel well liners to clean and reinstalled on both sides. I did a quick visual check and didn't see anything obvious but haven't gotten under the car yet.


I should also mention that I had trouble with the strut top but when installing. The koni instructions were difficult to follow as they showed multiple configurations. My struts came with two top nuts per strut. They were both nylock nuts. I was able to get the first one started and put an Allen key in the middle of the strut then co your torquing with a ratcheting wrench. I snugged that down (didn't torque to spec) since I couldn't get a torque wrench on it, and then put the other bolt ontop and tightened that down. I'm guessing this is my issue. Does everyone use that vw strut socket tool when installing atruts? Anyone have experience with using the double nut setup?
Thanks in advance!

I'd guess I'd be rechecking the installation of the strut mounts. Often they are the source of noise.

On another note, I replaced the Jetta Koni Special Active rear struts with Tiguan Koni SA struts. I also replaced the stock rear sway bar with a GTI rear sway bar.

The rear end is now very tight and well controlled. Reduced understeer. Not harsh. Before, the rear wallowed, not uncontrollably, but it was soft. The Jetta Konis were underdamped for the springs. Not now. Some may actually make the case it's too firm but not for me. I'll see how it reacts with a heavy load. The other plus is the rear no longer "clunks" when aggressively driven over large speed bumps. I think the Jetta rear shocks hit their extension limit.

Overall, I am very happy with the changes. IMHO Tiguan struts for the rear only is much better for a Sportwagen than Jetta struts. I can see using the Tiguan rear struts in OEM or Bilstein Comfort (B4) stiffness if one is sensitive to ride. Definitely no stiffer than the Koni Special actives. The GTI sway bar (available used for well under $100) is a no brainer, along with new bushings ($22 for the pair).

 

[Drclaw]

I'd guess I'd be rechecking the installation of the strut mounts. Often they are the source of noise.

On another note, I replaced the Jetta Koni Special Active rear struts with Tiguan Koni SA struts. I also replaced the stock rear sway bar with a GTI rear sway bar.

The rear end is now very tight and well controlled. Reduced understeer. Not harsh. Before, the rear wallowed, not uncontrollably, but it was soft. The Jetta Konis were underdamped for the springs. Not now. Some may actually make the case it's too firm but not for me. I'll see how it reacts with a heavy load. The other plus is the rear no longer "clunks" when aggressively driven over large speed bumps. I think the Jetta rear shocks hit their extension limit.

Overall, I am very happy with the changes. IMHO Tiguan struts for the rear only is much better for a Sportwagen than Jetta struts. I can see using the Tiguan rear struts in OEM or Bilstein Comfort (B4) stiffness if one is sensitive to ride. Definitely no stiffer than the Koni Special actives. The GTI sway bar (available used for well under $100) is a no brainer, along with new bushings ($22 for the pair).

Your using Tiguan rear springs correct? How do you think the Tiguan konis would pair with the jsw towing springs? The tow springs are even taller than the Tiguan springs, correct?

Where did you source your sway bar?