Lexus LS400 with TDI?

[greg123]

The Lexus is very aerodynamic (cd 0.25) and not too heavy for it's size.

I hear a lot about toyota trans swaps, obviously they make Lexus, how about a tdi into the Lexus with the 4-speed auto, anyone know if it will go with an Acme converter or is the bellhousing/pattern on the 4.0 V8 a different one?

If you didn't want to do drag racing this would be a sweet ride, it's one of the best built and most reliable cars ever made and the ride, quietness and space is amazing (I have had dealings with one). Long runs cruising due to the aerodynamics at say 80mph would yeild similar economy to a Passat. The bigger frontal area is offset by the lower Cd, making Cx about the same (which = mpg at steady speed, round town the extra weight would knock a bit off but we are only talking about 2-300kg tops in it, or driving a Passat with 2 people in the car)

Greg.

 

[bigblue]

I'm not sure how such a heavy chassis would fair but definitely a swap that would catch my interest.

I can't really comment about personal experience however I believe an ACME adapter would allow the mating of the engine to the automatic transmission bellhousing from that of an old RWD celica, supra or 2wd (22r/22re) pickup. I do not believe the LS400 bellhousing is a direct bolt up to the ACME adapter.

You'd probably have to drill/modify the flex plate for the VW crankshaft (assuming the starter ring works) , or possibly be able to get away with making an automatic VW TDI flex plate to adapt to the toyota torque convertor. That may be the easiest way to couple them.

 

[greg123]

Me too. LS400 is 1800kg weight, the new Passat estate 2.0 diesel is 1550kg. I rekon getting rid of the 32 valve v8 + it's gubbins would liberate about 100kg, meaning the LS400 with a TDI would weigh 150kg more than the passat, but with better aerodynamics. Or look at it another way, a passat with a single fat passenger :-o

Shame the Acme won't do the job though...

 

[ZippyV]

I have seen a Factory diesel LS400 on import from Japan, that may be a better route to go down

 

[bigblue]

...Shame the Acme won't do the job though...

Why not? It would work with one of the aforementioned transmissions which are not too expensive. It's not unusual to do an engine/transmission swap when switching to something so drastic. I want to see it happen

 

[Mk2tdi]

What about the possibility of the 2.5 V6 TDI, mated to a toyota 5spd, or possibly mated to th MK4 supra automatic? you'd make up for the loss of torque with the v6 TDI, and less strain on the engine. Mated to the 5spd/6spd or slush box, would really have a nice highway cruiser or around town vehicle... just my .02. Interesting idea though.

 

[DPM]

More details please,ZippyV!

 

[Mk2tdi]

More details please,ZippyV!

I know there is a Lexus IS220D which is the first diesel in the lexus lineup. 2.2l 175hp at 3600rpm,295ft-lbs at 2000rpm, comes as 5/6spd only, available in europe only. 6.3l/100km combined driving. 44mpg, also used in a toyota. Beyond that I don't believe the LS has a FACTORY diesel option...

 

[DPM]

That's what I though too. But there's always a chance of a JDM version with (say) a 1KDTE out of a Landcruiser in it...

 

[oilhammer]

The B5 has better legroom than the LS400, so I am not sure what you would really be gaining here. I worked for Lexus, been in and out of oodles of them. You need to step up to the newer LS430 to get decent interior room.

The LS400/Celsior is a very good car, though. But one of its best attributes is the wonderful bulletproof Toyota V8. Not sure I would want to take that away.

 

[greg123]

Now you are talking - a 4.2 di diesel out of a Landcruiser - is that the one? Amazing sounding motor, over 200bhp stock.... 400bhp tuned I heard. Hmm.....

Of course this wouldn't fit the 'make it as economic as possible' bill for me, but providing you can live with say 40mpg which I think it would do, what a great car.

Greg.

That's what I though too. But there's always a chance of a JDM version with (say) a 1KDTE out of a Landcruiser in it...

 

[greg123]

You are kidding me? I'd have put money on it's got more legroom. I'm 6'4 and noticed that I sat high up, in the Passat it's low to get in, and had drawers under the front seats with a big footwell. It's a whole FOOT longer than the Passat, and 4" wider, which in it feels like I'm sitting a good old deal further away from the other person compared to the Passat. I don't know the GS, speaking only of the later LS400.

I agree about the engine, it's great. But it's not suitable unless you are rich here, or just go to the local shop once a week. We average the typical british 10-12k a year, our 2 main vehicles between them did over 20,000 miles last year - at $10 a uk gallon that's a lot of fuel if you run a guzzler. My 300 mile trip round Yorkshire for the weekend would have cost me $120 in gas, uk prices. As it is, it cost me $30 for my wvo + diesel splash (it's a single tank system, on this motor I don't run it 100% wvo or if I had a twin tank system it would be cheaper yet). But I'd have rather driven that journey in the Lexus LS400 body than in the old Peugeot body ;-) Plus, I love the sound of a V8 but as much I love the sound of a spooling turbo and a diesel ticking over, both are great for me.

Greg.

The B5 has better legroom than the LS400, so I am not sure what you would really be gaining here. I worked for Lexus, been in and out of oodles of them. You need to step up to the newer LS430 to get decent interior room.

The LS400/Celsior is a very good car, though. But one of its best attributes is the wonderful bulletproof Toyota V8. Not sure I would want to take that away.

 

[oilhammer]

The first gen LS400 requires me to have the seat all the way back, all the way down, and even then I am still sitting with my knees bent awkwardly and my right foot twisted weird to get on the gas pedal. In the B5, if I move the seat all the way back I do not even think I can touch the pedals, but I can drive straight-legged and be quite stretched out.

Granted we are using LHD cars, something the Japanese don't always do well. The new IS was out for a whole 2 weeks and we had a recall for the gas pedal because it was hitting the carpet against the tunnel.

 

[ZippyV]

I know there is a Lexus IS220D which is the first diesel in the lexus lineup. 2.2l 175hp at 3600rpm,295ft-lbs at 2000rpm, comes as 5/6spd only, available in europe only. 6.3l/100km combined driving. 44mpg, also used in a toyota. Beyond that I don't believe the LS has a FACTORY diesel option...

I saw this LS400 filling up at the red agricultural diesel pump at my local garage. This particular car was a japanese grey market import, it had mirrors on the bodywork at the corners of the wings and different tail lights.

If the driver hadnt been a scarey looking Rastafarian I would gone over and got the specification on the engine! If I had approached him I think he would have marked me down as a policeman or a customs official, discretion was the better part of valour!.

 

[greg123]

I'm just wondering how much special rasta smokes he had and if it was in fact actually petrol.....

Seriously, wise move with your discretion and if it was a diesel, nice motor. I'm still thinking about that 4.2 24v direct injection 204bhp basic motor.....

Greg.

I saw this LS400 filling up at the red agricultural diesel pump at my local garage. This particular car was a japanese grey market import, it had mirrors on the bodywork at the corners of the wings and different tail lights.

If the driver hadnt been a scarey looking Rastafarian I would gone over and got the specification on the engine! If I had approached him I think he would have marked me down as a policeman or a customs official, discretion was the better part of valour!.

 

[greg123]

Hmm, maybe that's part of the deal. Here it's RHD and it was a 3rd gen, last of the LS400 (next one LS430). Had the 5-speed auto and 290bhp.

In any case, given that one can fit in it which I did in this one (But I have not tried a mk1) at 6'4 & 220lbs, there is no comparison in the ride and drive to a passat. I like driving the passat (though not as much as the golf platform as due to the front suspension arrangement and transaxle I find it a bit more 'wandery' and not quite as 'sharp') the body control, quietness, comfort and pin sharp effortless cornering on the LS400 are better than any 'ordinary' car I have been in. Maybe not better than an $100k Merc or something, I don't know, not been in one, but I have driven more cars than most and it was better than them all thus far. It was difficult to find something to fault it on and I blame that on Toyota setting out to fully over-engineer the car to really make a statement in the luxury market, which they did.

Greg.

The first gen LS400 requires me to have the seat all the way back, all the way down, and even then I am still sitting with my knees bent awkwardly and my right foot twisted weird to get on the gas pedal. In the B5, if I move the seat all the way back I do not even think I can touch the pedals, but I can drive straight-legged and be quite stretched out.

Granted we are using LHD cars, something the Japanese don't always do well. The new IS was out for a whole 2 weeks and we had a recall for the gas pedal because it was hitting the carpet against the tunnel.

 

[oilhammer]

If the B5 feels 'wandery' the raised toe alignment is probably off. You'd be amazed how many people have no idea how sophisticated the front suspension on that car is and how this special procedure and tool is required to properly align them.

 

[greg123]

Including all new ones? I'm being critical here, I'm not saying it's bad but I'd describe an air suspension with active roll control & active anti-dive, variable damping as sophisticated, not a basic setup like on the Passat. I remember taking a new audi A4 out and noting how it didn't track as straight as my RWD Volvo (requiring more small steering corrections over a long straight road) and when dumping power round a corner on a lot of lock it had more steering snatch/torque steer than I would have expected, pretty much same as all the Passats I have driven. Looking at the road tests, the Passat was not known for sharp handling and those wanting a sharper drive went for the Golf.

Maybe it can be 'worked' though, like the Golf/Octavia can which can turn very sharp with heavily upgraded anti-sway, upper and lower strut braces (like TT) and poly bushes. At that point they can whip most any other FWD's ass, though I think they are never going to be able to beat something like an M5 on the twisties due to it's inherrently better chassis.

Greg.

If the B5 feels 'wandery' the raised toe alignment is probably off. You'd be amazed how many people have no idea how sophisticated the front suspension on that car is and how this special procedure and tool is required to properly align them.

 

[oilhammer]

LOL. The B5 has a very far from basic front suspension.

 

[greg123]

How do you mean, do you mean complicated or sophisticated? Because the last one that I drove rolled under cornering, maintained a static ride height & damping level regardless of speed or road surface and dived under braking...

Seriously, not looked too much into it but the ones I have had in looked to be coil spring, standard shock, multi link setup - am I wrong? What is it about them that you like, are they good to set up for improvements?

Greg.

LOL. The B5 has a very far from basic front suspension.

 

[oilhammer]

Seriously, not looked too much into it but the ones I have had in looked to be coil spring, standard shock, multi link setup - am I wrong?

Greg.

Yep, you'd be wrong. And I never said they were good or bad, just stated they were not 'simple'. I think my explanation of its design may not clarify anything for you. I will say this much. No other FWD platform that I am aware of uses this design, and its cost and complexity was the main reason Volkswagen made the new Passat on the simpler and cheaper Golf-based platform (once again) while the more expensive Audis continue to use it.

It is far more complex than the LS400's front suspension. That does not mean it is better. A $100k Porsche 911 gets by with Mac struts like a $8k Kia Rio.