Let's talk coolant temps

[NickBeek]

I've noticed my 2013 NMS runs a little warmer than my 2011 Jetta did. Average everyday driving I see 205-209 degrees F. On a recent trip from SC to Daytona FL and back running 80 mph on cruise I saw 211-215 average temps. Economy and drivability seemed fine, but the temperature seemed a little high to me. Coolant level has remained the same and never have experienced any warming lights. You're experiences and opinions are welcome.

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[ChadS99SVT]

Read through this thread.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=371941

Appears to be normal and the temps you're seeing are still lower than many others including myself experience on a regular basis.

I agree they seem high and I don't really like it but at this point I haven't' been able to get VW or anyone to do anything about it. "It's Normal"

 

[VtdiW]

Mine are about the same as yours. Seems to be normal.

 

[tdiatlast]

09 JSW 198...solid...regens...205-209
12 Passat 203-205...regens...210-215
ChadS99SVT: What do you expect them to do about it? Re-engineer your car? It is what it is...yes, it's "normal"...

 

[ChadS99SVT]

09 JSW 198...solid...regens...205-209
12 Passat 203-205...regens...210-215
ChadS99SVT: What do you expect them to do about it? Re-engineer your car? It is what it is...yes, it's "normal"...

I expected them to find something wrong. This ship has sailed for me...I have done my due diligence so that if something fails maybe I will have some recourse with VW, but I'm no longer worried about it.

I do still think that a modern day car getting to 233* in sub freezing temperatures is a bit ridiculous, but by definition it's not overheating (240*).

It is what it is....I've moved on

 

[jrm]

I take it the computer holds the dash gauge at its prior location during the rejen process not to freak people out?

 

[compu_85]

Kind of. The needle stays at 190* from about 165*F to 225*F.

-J

 

[VeeDubTDI]

The Passat's temp will climb if you're climing a mountain, as well. I've seen ours get as high as 224F, but it didn't go any higher (perhaps because I ran out of mountain). I don't consider it anything to worry about, and that phenomenon has been reported here by several others, so it's consistent.

212F cruising down the road is perfectly normal for this engine.

 

[NickBeek]

Thanks all. I figured it was normal it was just different from what I was used to with the Jetta (similar setup) .

Btw, that picture was taken on flat ground I-95 in south GA...


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[Fixmy59bug]

I have seen this on occasion as well.

I drive to Vegas monthly and it never fails on the hills, wether it be summer, winter, day or night. When I hit the big hills, the temp goes up a notch.

On my 09 Jetta, I would never see such a temp fluctuation, yet since I had the E-MFA I could see the temps going up to about 230*

On the Passat, I do not have the E-MFA, but I have seen temps rise.

I am not going to cry wolf until there actually is a problem.

 

[jrm]

A Re-gen plus steep hill would totally do that. Coolant Temps don't bother me a bit, EGT's above 1500F is where damage can happen-

 

[VeeDubTDI]

Robert, that is probably just shy of 230F based on the position of your gauge. "Like clockwork" is a very accurate description - I see the same behavior every time when climbing long hills.

I have to think this is by design, perhaps to increase combustion efficiency during periods of high load. It would be interesting to see just how high it will go, and whether it will level out at some point or just keep climbing. Does anyone who tows a trailer have any data?

 

[Fixmy59bug]

I think you may be right about the design aspect of it...

Maybe Vw designed a lower maximum threshold so the customer knows it is starting to get a little warm when going up hills and that they need to back off the throttle a little bit.

That is pure speculation however.

I have tested the car and coolant system many times in this manner. |As I said |I have made the drive to Vegas in the middle of the day in summer 115* and higher temps outside and that first notch past straight up is the hottest has gotten.

So I am not worried or crying that there is a problem. This is the first Vw I have ever had where the temperature gauge has risen without an actual failure closely behind. LOL.

I'm just going to read the gauge as "Everything is great" when the needle is straight up, and "Man, You are really making me earn my keep today. But I can handle it" when the needle rises to the first notch.

 

[VeeDubTDI]

The gauge buffer is still 165 - 225F as far as I can tell, so no change in the last decade or so.

compu_85 looked up the thermostat in ETKA and it is completely unique to the CKRA engine and is listed with a large temperature range rather than a single specific temperature. I don't remember what that range is, the high end being somewhere around 250F.

As long as the coolant can keep up with the high temps without boiling, there is really nothing to worry about. This definitely reinforces the need to use the correct engine coolant in these vehicles.

 

[Fixmy59bug]

Just looked up the T-Stat for my CKRA.

It is listed as 87*c - 135*c (188*f - 275*f).

 

[VeeDubTDI]

Yeah that sounds about right... different from every other TDI thermostat we've seen so far.

 

[Sigforty]

To help the car meet emissions a lot of the newer cars all run higher temp thermostats.

 

[vw_norm]

This was going up a 8% grade on cruise. This is the only time I ever see it climb above 190*

 

[Fixmy59bug]

Thanks Norm.

You just confirmed we need to Drive More and Worry Less.

The Scan Gauge showing 225* and the needle creeping up is proof enough for me that it is not getting excessively hot.

I believe in the 09 Jetta I had the upper limit of "non-movement" was slightly higher than 225 and that is probably why the temp never moved on it.

 

[vw_norm]

Thanks Norm.

You just confirmed we need to Drive More and Worry Less.

The Scan Gauge showing 225* and the needle creeping up is proof enough for me that it is not getting excessively hot.

I believe in the 09 Jetta I had the upper limit of "non-movement" was slightly higher than 225 and that is probably why the temp never moved on it.

Oh, I'm not at all worried. Just sharing about how big the deadband is on the OEM temp gage. There is an interesting thread in the technical section about hacking the console's hex code to modify the curve that the temp gage operates under to show 'actual' temps.

 

[VeeDubTDI]

Oh, I'm not at all worried. Just sharing about how big the deadband is on the OEM temp gage. There is an interesting thread in the technical section about hacking the console's hex code to modify the curve that the temp gage operates under to show 'actual' temps.

That would be a fun project. The gauge will be all over the place.

 

[jrm]

A bit off topic but This thread brings back memory's of my Dodge Cummins a decade ago where the temp gauge swung like a windshield wiper- the fix was a software upgrade to hold the gauge in place. I never got that "upgrade" on my truck.
Another trick discovered on the same forums was that they also de-tuned the trucks as they age with those software upgrades thus to make them last well into the 100K power train warranty and when people complained about lack of power they upsold them on a new rig.

 

[N4TECguy]

I have seen this on occasion as well.

I drive to Vegas monthly and it never fails on the hills, wether it be summer, winter, day or night. When I hit the big hills, the temp goes up a notch.

On my 09 Jetta, I would never see such a temp fluctuation, yet since I had the E-MFA I could see the temps going up to about 230*

On the Passat, I do not have the E-MFA, but I have seen temps rise.

I am not going to cry wolf until there actually is a problem.

That is all sorts of odd I pulled Cajon in July in 6th during regen and my gauge never moved. Been over Tehachapi, Grapevine, Pacheco, etc etc (it's my long trip car) and never seen that gauge move a bit despite the fluctuations I see using Torque. 2/2013 build date on mine.

 

[VeeDubTDI]

Your gauge didn't move, but what were your actual coolant temps? The gauge doesn't start to move up until it hits 225F, so you could have been at 224F and not even known it unless you have a ScanGauge or similar.

 

[N4TECguy]

Your gauge didn't move, but what were your actual coolant temps? The gauge doesn't start to move up until it hits 225F, so you could have been at 224F and not even known it unless you have a ScanGauge or similar.

Yes I know all of this, but it's still weird. I was monitoring coolant temps and they never got above 209. But the question remains, why do Robert and I pull the same grades and he consistently gets above 225 and I consistently remain below 209? And I pulled that grade in the middle of summer

 

[VeeDubTDI]

Do you pull it in 6th gear or in 5th gear?

209 vs 225 is definitely an interesting difference between vehicles.

Another thought: was Rob pulling that grade during a regen? I can't tell because I don't know which EGT probe he's monitoring on his ScanGauge.

 

[N4TECguy]

Do you pull it in 6th gear or in 5th gear?

209 vs 225 is definitely an interesting difference between vehicles.

Another thought: was Rob pulling that grade during a regen? I can't tell because I don't know which EGT probe he's monitoring on his ScanGauge.

6th gear. He drives that grade once a month he says, so I doubt he would be in regen every time. My coolant temps also don't seem significantly different on grades when regen-ing. On flat ground they will spike, grades seem about the same whether in regen or not.

Interesting side note, I had a 2012 Chevy Cruze rental with the 1.4 Turbo, and it would actually decrease coolant temps on grades - presumably to increase power instead of optimizing fuel efficiency.

 

[NickBeek]

More observations. My Passat takes a long time to reach full operating temperature. This morning ambient temps were in the mid 30's F. My morning trip today consisted of 1/8 mile in my neighborhood, followed by 2 miles on a 45 mph road, followed by 18 miles of interstate at 65 mph before it reached full temperature of 202 degrees F on the scangage. By comparison my Jetta only took about 8 miles on the interstate under similar conditions to reach full operating temps. Even my '06 Cummins powered Dodge truck gets up to temp by 8-10 miles on the interstate hwy. The truck has about 3 times the engine displacement and I would wager engine mass and coolant capacity as well.

 

[VeeDubTDI]

You drove 1/8th mile? That's like... the end of the street for me. Hardly worth starting the car for...

 

[NickBeek]

I edited my post. Tapatalk cut off most of my original post this morning for some reason...


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