Let's talk about refridgerants: R-12a or R-134a?

[rotarykid]

OK on your question why or how could the system be under charged ??

The HC to CFC or HFC translated amounts are for a system at "0" pressure & "0" vacume . So the operating pressures are calibrated from "0" + on both the high & low side .

Now Say your starting the charge point was @ 10 in Hg ( 30 in Hg being a perfect vacume @ sea level ) then all the figures are going to be off by around 30 % low . Now if you are only off by that amount then adding a small amount of HCs to the system will bring the operating pressures close to spec .

The reason for your 45 lbs on the low side is that pressure is a direct corrolation to temp & volume . Your systems low volume and higher pressure than is normal are technically due to the fact that the vacume being present at fill threw all the pressures & volumes out of the operating ranges that the HCs are designed to work in the HFC designed ac system .

That is to say if the system had been specifically designed for HCs as they can operate at much lower pressures than the HFCs designed system . That is @ your current fill and pressures a HC designed system would be within specification to bleed down allowing for the evaporator cooling with much less energy used .

But in your current set up which is specifically designed to HFCs specifications which reqires much higher operating pressures because the vacume that existed at filling your volumes & pressures are out of spec . That is why a HFC sytem uses much more energy , because of the much higher pressures required in a HFC system to operate properally .

For the above described design differences in HCs operating pressures and HFCs pressures are the reason your cars ac system seemed not to cool today in the heat .

The easiest way to explain this is due to the minmum bleed pressures for the HFCs spec evaporators valves being too high for the current volumes of HCs flowing through the system .

My guess is that If you add a small amount of HCs to the low side then your ac systems evaporator temps & low side pressures will drop to closer to spec . Causing the evaporator coil air temps to drop considerablly . The end result will be you using much less energy to cool the car .

Warning if you filled from a prefect vacume @ your altitude then adding will not work ( improve cooling ) as you are too far out of spec .

In the first early attemps to convert GM canaster type R12 systems to R134a something similar occured because the evaporators bleed down pressures on the R12 designed system were too low for R134a to function . On many of the "canaster Type" GM AC systems the low pressure bleed valve inside the "dryer Reciever valve assembly" had to be adjusted for to higher bleed down pressure for the system to function on R134a .

This in a sense what is happening to your system if you filled it while under vacume , the bleed down pressure in the evaporator is too far out of spec for it to operate properally and cool the car .

 

[rotarykid]

In HFC systems when using either HFC or HC freon if you overfill the system you get too high of pressure high side causing too high of pressures to exist on the low side preventing the ac system from cooling on the low side .

This was a real problem on the first conversions of R12 designed systems to R134a . There were many issues that came out of nightmare of trying to get R12 systems to operate on R134a . It was a real nightmare that could have been avoided if the lies about HCs had been quashed sooner .

Needless to say I learned more about all types of refrigeration in the last 15 years while converting ac & refrigertor systems to work on other types of HC freons than I ever wanted to know .

A lot of lies were told to gullable public . I'm sorry to say I believed many of those lies until I searched for the real truth .

 

[Fortuna Wolf]

So, I either need some compressed air that I can add to the system, or I need to put it under vacuum, release that vacuum, and refill?

 

[rotarykid]

So, I either need some compressed air that I can add to the system, or I need to put it under vacuum, release that vacuum, and refill?

Hook a gauge to the high side and run the ac . Then post your readings and I give advise on what you see . I wouldn't use compressed air as the contaminations could cause trouble .

I suggest what to do on the readings you give on the high side under operation .

 

[rotarykid]

Here is the 416 automotive conversion instructions, it is 100% legal in the USA: http://www.refimax.com/support/guide_fr12.htm

Many 134 cooling problems are from over or under charging... the pressure of the low side will determine how cold the coldest point is. I usually aim for 40* F to avoid possible evaporator icing and to leave a little room for losses over time.

Got a pressure and temp chart?
http://www.refimax.com/products/tempchart.htm

http://www.redtek.com/techinfo_refprop.html#

http://www.oztechnologyinc.com/hc12avaptemp.html

To get 40* F you need the low side to read:

R12 = 37 psi

R134 = 35 psi

R416 = 28 psi

R12a = ?

How will you know how much to HC to put in?

R416a is a low temperature glide. Although the blend does not mix with mineral oils the addition of hydrocarbon thins the oil for satisfactory oil return.

Because it doesn't mix with mineral oils could never , should never be used as a direct replacement for R12 in a ac or refirgerator system .

 

[ta79pr]

This is fascinating. Fortuna Wolf & rotarykid; thank you very much for having this conversation on the forum and allowing the rest of us to learn from your experiences.
http://forums.tdiclub.com/member.php?u=14405

 

[rotarykid]

Do n ot remove the filler cap from the low pressure side while the ac system isn't on

I just learn something the hard way on my Passat .

Do not remove the low side filler cap unless the system is in operation !!!!!!!!

If the system is pressurised and not running the pressure is too high on the low side causing the valve to exspell the o-ring . I saw this happen while I was helping someone fill their system today .

If you make the mistake and expell the o-ring partially you can try this ;

If you do this and loose the o-ring completely you must remove the valve and manually reset the o-ring .

Crank the car , then engauge the ac system , then hook up your filling hose connector to the low side valve . Then introduce some freon into the system . This should reset the o-ring . It did on my car .

 

[Fortuna Wolf]

Its not an O-Ring actually. Its a rubber hemisphere. Mine flew out and without it there was a slow leak. I had to completely vent my system and remove the valve so that I could reset the seal. Of course, as soon as I screw it back on and charge the system with 1 can and remove it to charge with the second can does the seal fly out again. PLUS, manipulating the valve to get the seal back in made the leak worse. And I only had 1 can of refrigerant left so venting and recharging was out of the question. Well, I hope I smeared enough silicone RTV on the dust cap. If I ever have to do any more work on the system I'll need to vent it and replace the lower valve.

ANGST.

Anyhow, with the HC-12a properly charged it does get colder. At night with the AC on low recirc I need to turn the thermostat nearly half way up instead of a quarter way up to find the comfortable temp.

In 95F weather and AC on high you should see a highside pressure of ~240 PSI and lowside of ~50 PSI.

 

[TDIRyan]

That is correct, you should have the AC on full when you introduce more freon (r-134a/r-12) into the system!

 

[rotarykid]

That is correct, you should have the AC on full when you introduce more freon (r-134a/r-12) into the system!

That is correct but I wouldn't have exspected the valve to spit out the rubber seal the way it did while I was just inspecting it . That was quite surprise indede that the equalized pressure was enough to spit out the valves sealing 0-ring . The old srader connecting valves used in the R12 systems never had this issue .

So to avoid this issue only connect the gauges to the fitting on the high side before the system is engauged and pressures are built up .

And to avoid the failure of the valve 0-ring on the low side connector only remove the cap from the low pressure side only once the ac system is in operation . Only then will the low side pressure be lowered to a safe enough level preventing a failure , expulation of the low side connector 0-ring .

 

[LoneStarCRX]

This in a sense what is happening to your system if you filled it while under vacume , the bleed down pressure in the evaporator is too far out of spec for it to operate properally and cool the car .

I am about to change to Duracool in my system. The instructions say to:

CHARGING PROCEDURE

1. Recover any existing refrigerant charge into a suitable container, regulations vary by region and the recovery of existing refrigerant may need to be completed by an authorized technician. Leak test the system, if a leak is detected the system must be repaired prior to charging. DURACOOL 12a® is flammable and should only be leak tested with an electronic hydrocarbon leak tester, soap bubbles or fluorescent tracer fluid. If leaks are detected, ventilate area, keep away from flames and repair the leak. After repair, continue with the charging procedure. Pull a vacuum of at least 25 cm Hg (10 in Hg).

2. Locate low side service port of the AC system...

I am confused. I am not sure whether or not to fill it under vacuum.

 

[Fortuna Wolf]

Lonestar, I'd pull a vacuum to extract the R134, and then release the vacuum.

 

[LoneStarCRX]

I am not going to be able to pull much of a vacuum anyway. I bought a little air venturi vac and subsequently found out they don't work worth a damn.

I have a buddy at a shop about 75 miles away that I may go to for a free vac.

Thanks.

 

[rotarykid]

​

Duracool® A/C Solutions

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]When A/C system sealers first started to appear on the market Duracool® Refrigerants continued with their research and testing.

When problems started to occur with these new products we intensified our research and testing.

Only when we were finished testing these new products did we introduce the product line of Duracool® A/C Solutions. We were confident that we had developed the most economical, easiest to install, and strongest sealant available in the market place today.

Duracool A/C Solutions are designed for use by both the Professional Automotive Technician and the Do It Yourself enthusiasts.

Duracool® A/C Solutions

Helping you to avoid expensive A/C Repairs.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]"Our Formula Never Changes"[/FONT]​

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]Duracool® DuraDry™
[/FONT][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]Moisture in an Air-Conditioning System will cause damage to the system. Moisture will combine with lubricants such as PAG oil, Ester oil and Refrigerants like R-134a to form acids and other corrosive compounds that will harm the system.

Duracool® DuraDry™ contains a moisture removing additive that converts moisture in the system into a synthetic oil. We recommend the use of Duracool® DuraDry™ before the use of
Duracool® SystemSeal™ or Duracool® SealQuick™ to ensure all moisture has been removed from the air-conditioning system.


The 4 ounce container contains a sufficient amount of Duracool® DuraDry™ to remove moisture in a 2 lb. to 5 lb. A/C System. Duracool® DuraDry™ may be used in most Air-Conditioning Systems and is compatible with refrigerants such as Duracool 12a®, Duracool 22a®, Duracool 502a®, CFC-12, R-134a, R-22, and R-502.

[/FONT]

Duracool® SystemSeal™
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]Designed to repair minor leaks in the evaporator, condenser, gaskets, "0" rings, connecting fittings and metal lines. Duracool® SystemSeal™ was designed to eliminate costly repairs in the form of replacement parts and expensive service labor. Duracool® DuraDry™ may be used safely in most air-conditioning systems. (Duracool 12a®, Duracool 22a®, Duracool 502a®, CFC-12, R-134a, R-22, and R-502.)




The 4 ounce container contains a sufficient amount of Duracool® SystemSeal™ to seal leaks in a 2 lb. to 5 lb. A/C System.
If leaks does not empty the system within 24 hours Duracool® SystemSeal™ will usually seal the system with one can. Two or more applications may be necessary if leaks persist.

[/FONT]

Duracool® SealQuick™
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]Every year it was normal practice to replace the lost refrigerant that leaks out over the winter months. This procedure is very costly and prohibited in many parts of the world today. Leaking systems add to the problem of global warming and ozone depletion. Many leaks in the automotive air-conditioning system occur at "0" rings and gasket areas. As they age, these materials begin to dry out and shrink.
Duracool® SealQuick™ is the economical solution to this problem.



The 4 ounce container contains a sufficient amount of Duracool® SealQuick™ to stop minor leaks in a 2 lb. to 5 lb. A/C System. Duracool® SealQuick™ may be used safely be in most air-conditioning systems. (Duracool 12a®, Duracool 22a®, Duracool 502a®, CFC-12, R-134a, R-22, and R-502.)

[/FONT]

Duracool® A/C Oil Chill™ with OEM approved U/V Leak Detection Dye
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]Duracool® A/C Oil Chill is the only Mobile Air-Conditioning Lubricant you need !
Many A/C Lubricants will absorb up to 40% of their weight in moisture, moisture in the system is one of the leading cause of A/C Failures.

Duracool® A/C Oil Chill will reduce compressor noise, reduce compressor operating temperatures and improve heat transfer in the evaporator and condenser resulting in a decreased vent temperature. The result is colder air blowing from the vents and less load on the system.
Duracool® A/C Oil Chill™ will not absorb moisture and has a low miscibility, low miscibility means that more oil stays in the compressor where it's needed.

Duracool® A/C Oil Chill™ has superior high temperature performance and a high degree of oxidation resistance. Duracool® A/C Oil Chill™ is the only oil you need for all mobile Air-Conditioning systems. For "Top-Up" or "Fill-Ups" Duracool® A/C Oil Chill™ is the only logical choice. Duracool® A/C Oil Chill™ is available in 4 oz. charging cans, 8 oz. and 1 liter bottles and is the perfect companion for existing systems or compressor replacements. The OEM approved U/V leak detection dye will aid in pinpointing even the smallest system leak. Recent testing has shown that a combination of Duracool 502a refrigerant and Duracool® A/C Oil Chill™ has resulted in over a 45 degree F reduction of compressor body operating temperatures in commercial reefer applications. Duracool® A/C Oil Chill™ may be used safely in most air-conditioning systems. (Duracool 12a®, Duracool 22a®, Duracool 502a®, CFC-12, R-134a, R-22, and R-502.) Using Duracool® A/C Oil Chill™ can not void a Manufactures warranty.

[/FONT]

Duracool® Mobile A/C Tune Up and Sealant Kit
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]Research has shown that many vehicles, some which are less than two years old have lost sufficient refrigerant due to pinhole leaks to render the air-conditioning system inoperative.
In many cases the loss of only a few ounces of refrigerant will result in the inability of the
Air-Conditioning system to cool the vehicle satisfactorily. These leaks are often caused by the refrigerants or lubricants becoming corrosive after they have absorbed or combined with moisture that has entered the system.


These phantom leaks are the most difficult to find and expensive to repair. The Duracool® Mobile A/C Tune Up and Sealant Kit is the answer to this problem. The kit is designed for both the " Do it Yourself Enthusiasts" and the " Professional Repair Technician". The easy to follow step by step installation instructions will guide you through the installation procedure, in many cases this task has been completed in less than an hours time. The contents of the kit will remove any moisture in the system, stop leaks in the system and replace any refrigerant oil that may have been lost as a result of leaks. Each kit contains adapter fittings for older vehicles or equipment, a charging hose and a low side pressure gauge that allows the installer to accurately measure system performance. The combination of Duracool® DuraDry™, Duracool® SystemSeal™ and Duracool® A/C Oil Chill™ that are included in the kit ensure minute single or multiple leaks will be eliminated and that system cooling will be restored. Any residual Duracool® SystemSeal™ that is not used when sealing initial leaks will continue to travel in the system and seal future leaks that may occur. [/FONT]

 

[rotarykid]

I am about to change to Duracool in my system. The instructions say to:


I am confused. I am not sure whether or not to fill it under vacuum.

Pull the vacume to verrify that the system sill hold it thereby verrifying the fact that you have no leaks . Once that is done release it completely then refill the system with any of the HC replacements .

 

[rotarykid]

Duracool website suggests that a vacume be left in the system of 10 in.Hg of vacuum before refilling . That is preaty close to 0 with out letting in any moisture . But if the system is completely relieved of R134a a simple refill of the system will work .



DO NOT OVERCHARGE! Exceeding 60 psi on low side may damage compressor. In some cases, clearing the site glass overcharges the unit. Any overcharging may cause loss of cooling efficiency.

When charging systems with DURACOOL 12a® the pressures will be the same for the low side as factory( 28 - 45 PSI) [SIZE=-1]and about[/SIZE] 5-10 % [SIZE=-1]lower on the high side than [/SIZE][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]CFC-12[/FONT][SIZE=-1] and may be as much as [/SIZE]20 -30 % [SIZE=-1]lower on the high side for R-134a systems.[/SIZE]

 

[rotarykid]

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS (FAQ'S)
[/FONT][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]EDUCATIONAL INFORMATION
[/FONT][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]
[/FONT][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]DURACOOL® Refrigerants Inc. is one of the leading hydrocarbon refrigerant manufacturers in the world today, we produce one of the most sought after hydrocarbon refrigerants available in todays market.

Our Slogan "OUR FORMULA NEVER CHANGES" is important, it means that all of the refrigerants blended by Duracool® Refrigerants Inc. are in fact blended from the highest quality and purest base stocks available in the market today. We do not sacrifice quality and purity by using low grade or inexpensive alternatives.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]Duracool Refrigerants Inc. guarantees in writing that our refrigerants will not harm any part of your mobile air-conditioning system
[/FONT][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]
Duracool® refrigerants provide consistently superior cooling capabilities and boasts all the qualities of a product that is not only safe and highly efficient but it is also
NON OZONE-DEPLETING and NON GLOBAL-WARMING.

[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]Listed below you will find a collection of frequently asked questions with regards to
our refrigerants,If you don't find the answer your looking for please feel free to send us an email.
[/FONT]OUR FORMULA NEVER CHANGES

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular][SIZE=-1]Regardless of when or where you may have purchased Duracool® Refrigerant, it always contains
the proven formula, skillfully blended to ensure the highest performance in your Air-Conditioning System.
With Duracool® "Our Formula Never Changes" means just that.
[/SIZE][/FONT]
NON CORROSIVE - WON'T HARM AIR CONDITIONING COMPONENTS:

• <LI type=disc>[SIZE=-1]Guaranteed in writing! [/SIZE]<LI type=disc>[SIZE=-1]Millions of vehicles have been converted to hydrocarbon refrigerants to date word wide. [/SIZE]
• [SIZE=-1]System head pressures greatly reduced from R-134a systems - [/SIZE]similar to [FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]CFC-12[/FONT] systems

MUCH COOLER & MORE EFFICIENT! VERY SIMPLE INSTALL!

• <LI type=disc>[SIZE=-1]Cools [/SIZE]extremely better than R-134a[SIZE=-1] - Cools marginally better than [/SIZE][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]CFC-12[/FONT]
• Up to 35% more efficient than R-134a - Moderately more efficient than [FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]CFC-12[/FONT]

VERY SIMPLE INSTALL!

• <LI type=disc>Simple economical conversions of high/low screw on fittings. <LI type=disc>Compatible with mineral & synthetic oils including Pag & Ester - No Oil Change Is Required! <LI type=disc>No special equipment is required for installation. Use your [FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]CFC-12[/FONT] or R-134a equipment and tools
• Requires only 40% of charge by weight of R-134a and 35% of [FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]CFC-12[/FONT]

BETTER PERFORMANCE AND SAFETY!

• <LI type=disc>[SIZE=-1]Duracool12a® contains Duracool A/C Oil Chill™ which is a synthetic lubricant that enhances
  performances and safety [/SIZE]<LI type=disc>[SIZE=-1]Auto ignition of ~1635°F[/SIZE] is ACTUALLY a higher auto ignition than R134a which is 1328°F
• [SIZE=-1]Absolutely non-toxic - 100% natural organic product [/SIZE]

Using DURACOOL 12a® to replace R-134a is extremely easy. DURACOOL 12a® is compatible with both mineral and synthetic oils found in both systems. You are able to use the oil that was originally installed in the system, mineral in old CFC-12[SIZE=-1] systems and synthetic oil in R-134a systems. We recommend that you use Duracool® A/C Oil Chill with OEM approved U/V Leak Detection Dye. Additional information on Duracool® A/C Oil Chill can be found by clicking on the A/C Solutions link from the navigation bar at the top of this page.[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]To replace [/SIZE][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]CFC-12[/FONT][SIZE=-1] with DURACOOL 12a® requires the removal of all existing refrigerant. Charge the DURACOOL 12a® using 35% of the original ([/SIZE][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]CFC-12[/FONT][SIZE=-1]) charge weight listed on the system tag. eg; system tag calls for 40oz of [/SIZE][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]CFC-12[/FONT][SIZE=-1], use 14oz DURACOOL 12a®. Since DURACOOL 12a® is compatible with the mineral oils there is no need to change or flush your system. DURACOOL 12a® will work with the existing components. Pull a vacuum to at least -10 in hg. If a vacuum pump is not available be sure to use Duracool® DuraDry™ to remove system moisture.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]To replace R-134a with DURACOOL 12a® you must remove all the existing R-134a. Charge the DURACOOL 12a® using 40% of the original (R-134a) charge weight listed on the system tag. eg; system tag calls for 40oz of R-134a, use 16oz DURACOOL 12a®. Since DURACOOL 12a® is compatible with the synthetic oils there is no need to change or flush your system. DURACOOL 12a® will work with the existing components. Pull a vacuum to at least -10 in hg. If a vacuum pump is not available be sure to use Duracool® DuraDry™ to remove system moisture.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]In Canada there are no requirements regarding the conversion of [/SIZE][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]CFC-12[/FONT][SIZE=-1] or R-134a to DURACOOL 12a®. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]In the United States the EPA requires that systems using [/SIZE][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]CFC-12[/FONT][SIZE=-1] refrigerants must be retrofitted to
R-134a prior to the use of DURACOOL 12a® . [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]CHARGING PROCEDURE
[/SIZE]

1. [SIZE=-1]Recover any existing refrigerant charge into a suitable container, regulations vary by region and the recovery of existing refrigerant may need to be completed by an authorized technician. Leak test the system, if a leak is detected the system must be repaired prior to charging. DURACOOL 12a® is flammable and should only be leak tested with an electronic hydrocarbon leak tester, soap bubbles or fluorescent tracer fluid. If leaks are detected, ventilate the area, keep away from flames and repair the leak. After repair, continue with the charging procedure. Pull a vacuum of at least 25 cm Hg (10 in Hg). If a vacuum pump is not available be sure to use Duracool® DuraDry™ to remove system moisture.
   
   [/SIZE]
2. [SIZE=-1]Locate the low side service port of the AC system. Generally it will have a blue or a black cap (Do not connect to high-pressure side. This may cause components to fail and cause bodily injury.)
   
   [/SIZE]
3. [SIZE=-1]Remove low side dust cap. Connect hose to system by pushing on to the male service port fitting; ensure that the coupler fits snugly into place. The installation of a conversion service port fittings may be required to permit connection.
   
   [/SIZE]
4. [SIZE=-1]Using only a device designed for the purpose, connect charging hose to the DURACOOL 12a® container. Ensure that you are only charging liquid DURACOOL 12a® (invert the 6 oz. can) into the low side of system.
   
   [/SIZE]
5. [SIZE=-1]After a minimum charge is achieved, start the compressor and set system to medium fan. When the compressor cycles on and off about every 45 to 60 seconds stop the flow of refrigerant. Check the vent for cooling. If cooling is inadequate or compressor is cycling excessively add small amounts of DURACOOL 12a® by opening and closing valve handle. Low side pressures should read between 28 and 45 psi.
   
   [/SIZE]
6. [SIZE=-1]Do not overfill. Exercise patience and let the system operate for several minutes before adding refrigerant.
   
   [/SIZE]
7. [SIZE=-1]Apply refrigerant identification tag on dry area near installation port.
   
   [/SIZE]
8. [SIZE=-1]DO NOT OVERCHARGE! Exceeding 60 psi on low side may damage compressor. In some cases, clearing the site glass overcharges the unit. Any overcharging may cause loss of cooling efficiency. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]When charging systems with DURACOOL 12a® the pressures will be the same for the low side as factory[/SIZE]( 28 - 45 PSI) [SIZE=-1]and about[/SIZE] 5-10 % [SIZE=-1]lower on the high side than [/SIZE][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]CFC-12[/FONT][SIZE=-1] and may be as much as [/SIZE]20 -30 % [SIZE=-1]lower on the high side for R-134a systems.[/SIZE]

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]USAGE & INSTALLATION [/FONT]
[SIZE=-1]Is DURACOOL12a® a "drop in replacement"?
[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]It is important to understand that there are two types of automobile air conditioning units, those charged with [/SIZE][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]CFC-12[/FONT][SIZE=-1] and those charged with R-134a (R-134a is in all automobiles manufactured after 1994, some during 1993). DURACOOL12a® is a drop in replacement for R-134 automobiles, but requires a high and a low side fitting to convert [/SIZE][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]CFC-12[/FONT][SIZE=-1] systems.
This is a very inexpensive conversion. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Does the system need to be completely empty?
[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Although mixing DURACOOL12a® with [/SIZE][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]CFC-12[/FONT][SIZE=-1] or R-134a in your A/C system would not damage or harm your system, it is illegal to charge your AC system without first evacuating the refrigerant that is currently in the A/C unit. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Are the pressure and volume charts absolutely correct?
[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]No, just like any other refrigerant, the pressure and volume charts should be used as a GUIDE. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]We have found that you can have three of the same cars, same age, and they will all take different amounts of refrigerant, not significant differences, but different in volume[/SIZE]. [SIZE=-1]The key is to use the chart as a guide rather than the rule.[/SIZE] [SIZE=-1]Often systems have component changes such as longer or shorter hoses - these types of changes may affect the volume which will affect the stated or recommended charge. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]I'm charging a car and it's not going into the system, what's wrong?
[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]It could be one of a number of issues: [/SIZE]

1. [SIZE=-1]The compressor may be seized or damaged, in this case the refrigerant will not be pulled through the system. Check the fuse to make sure that there is power actually getting to the compressor.
   
   [/SIZE]
2. [SIZE=-1]It could be that there is a problem with the installation hose system. To check this, install the can tapper to the hose and do not attached the hose to the automobile low fitting. Insert the DC 0095 low side fitting into the quick disconnect and test for restrictions by releasing a small amount of refrigerant through the hose (pointing the hose away from you or others). If the refrigerant sprays through the hose and low side quick disconnect, this means that the can tapper and the hose components are working effectively.
   
   [/SIZE]
3. [SIZE=-1]Next, install the quick release to hose end and then put a low side fitting (0095) into the quick release fitting, open your can tap and the refrigerant should flow through the fitting. If this happens then the kit is not blocked in any way. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]If the compressor is working well and the kit seems to be working well but the refrigerant is not flowing into the system, you can contact us at (888) 463-42665. [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Why can't I fit the low side fitting on to my low side?
[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]The low fittings are internationally generic on every R-134a system. This would mean everything from 1993/94 onwards. The high side fittings have changed slightly during specific model years but generally the Duracool® DC401 or DC403 kits should accommodate most models and years. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]If you find that the fitting appears to be too large to fit the hose attachment, this means that you are trying to fit the hose onto the "high fitting". [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]The low fitting is usually on the line from the accumulator or on the accumulator itself. The accumulator generally sits (on most cars) to the left of the engine rear (when facing the automobile as the installer). A line will run from the compressor to the accumulator, through the accumulator and run down towards the firewall. The low side fitting will be somewhere between the compressor and the firewall (generally); however, there are some cars that have their low side fitting under the car before the hose runs back into the compressor (such as some '92 Pontiac Grand Prix's which is right underneath the car). If the low side cannot be located, our technical assistance line may be able to locate it in the Mitchell Automotive Air Conditioning and Heating manual(s) - if the low fitting has been indicated on the engine diagrams. If not available, the only alternative is to contact a dealership and request further information. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]How come the air is too cold or too warm?

[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Too warm: [/SIZE]

• [SIZE=-1]Compressor may not be working or the system may have a leak and has lost the entire refrigerant charge. [/SIZE]
• [SIZE=-1]The automobile may have been overcharged with too much refrigerant. Check to pressures to know whether or not the system has been overcharged. A DURACOOL® pencil gauge or the DURACOOL® low side pressure gauge can be used to check the low side fitting psi. Low side pressure should ideally be in the 28-45 psi range. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]Too cold: [/SIZE]

• [SIZE=-1]The system may need another ounce or two of DURACOOL® refrigerant. A system running too cold can indicate that it has been undercharged. Check the pressures to determine whether or not the system has been undercharged. A DURACOOL® pencil gauge or the Duracool® Low Side Pressure gauge can be used to check the low side fitting psi. If the system is undercharged the pressure will generally read less than 28 psi. Low side pressure should ideally be in the 28-45 psi range. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]When you reclaim DURACOOL® do you have to use separate containers from the other refrigerants if you are not reusing and if you are reusing.
[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Whether you are reusing the refrigerant or arranging for disposal, you should always use separate reclaiming bottles for different refrigerants, for the following reasons; reused refrigerants cannot be blended by law and secondly, disposal of the individual refrigerants require different disposal procedures. [/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Can you use the same tank for different refrigerants? Is there residual refrigerants left in the cylinders?
[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Yes you can use the same cylinders and there will be some residual refrigerant left in the cylinder, but not enough to affect performance. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]When you recycle does the oil separate?
[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]The oil will not separate when the refrigerant is being recycled. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]What setting should the evacuator be on when evacuating a system?
[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Vacuum settings should be set between 7-15 inches on the low side ideally. If a major evacuation has happened and a major component has been changed such as a compressor or evaporator then a hard vacuum should be pulled to 29 inches. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Does high head pressure get dangerous as it goes up? What is the maximum head pressure.
[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]High head pressures can damage the compressor and other components, this is one of the attributes of DURACOOL® Refrigerants in that they allow A/C systems to operate effectively at lowered head pressures. Because damage can occur if head pressures are very high, it is important to be cognizant of this and measure the pressures accordingly. On the high side, head pressures should not exceed 260 - 300 psi depending on the make and model of vehicle. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Will this product harm my evacuator?
[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Absolutely not, it is not corrosive and therefore cannot harm your evacuator. DURACOOL® is one of the friendliest products produced today. It will actually enhance performance and provide natural lubrication. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]TOXICITY & CORROSIVENESS [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Will DURACOOL® harm my Air Conditioning and/or it's components?
[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]DURACOOL® will not harm your AC system or it's components. In fact, it will actually add life to air conditioning and refrigeration equipment. This is because it is non-corrosive as compared to R-134a and the R-22 products that may breakdown into highly corrosive components. We even guarantee in writing that the use of our refrigerants will not harm your air-conditioning system.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Is DURACOOL® Toxic?
[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]No. DURACOOL 12a® is non-toxic, and totally organic. This is one of the major differences between the DURACOOL 12a® product and the R-134a product which is highly toxic. [/SIZE]

FLAMMABILITY
[SIZE=-1]Is DURACOOL® flammable?
[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Like all hydrocarbons, DURACOOL® is flammable, and must be handled accordingly. Practically all lubricants, additives and oils used in the engine of a car are flammable. Gasoline is flammable. Hair spray, deodorant and whipped cream aerosol propellants are flammable. All must be transported, handled and utilized (or installed) using safe practices and following instructions where possible. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Have there been studies to determine the potential level of incidence, in terms of ignited automobile compartment leakage?
[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Internationally respected risk assessors Arthur D. Little, in a detailed UK-based study, estimated the risk of an ignited refrigerant leak in the passenger compartment of a motor vehicle as being in the area of 3 in 10 million. Their findings, from a local perspective, mean that if every car in the USA (some 50 to 60 million vehicles) were to use a hydrocarbon refrigerant such an accident might occur once in every 50 years. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]What would the impact of and "incident level, once every 50 years" ignited automobile compartment leakage actually be?
[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]In terms of the "impact", it is important to recognize that automobiles generally have 12-15 ounces of DURACOOL® refrigerant. If there were a full amount leak into an automobile compartment and it ignited, it would theoretically create a "flash" which would last 1-1.5 seconds. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]There are eminent Risk Assessment Reports available which document the safety of hydrocarbon refrigerants in motor vehicle air conditioning systems. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]What is the difference between regular propane and the refrigerant propane that is used to manufacture the DURACOOL® products?
[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]The propane that is regularly used for barbecues, and general consumer or commercial use is a by product or deritive of the hydrocarbon manufacturing process (the production and refining of raw oil products). The propane used for standard applications (such as your home barbecue). In order to utilize the product as "refrigerant grade" the product is further refined to render out methane gases and other impurities. This refrigerant propane is different in many ways, most notably is the disparity in the auto ignition. Essentially this refining makes the product safer and more stable. The Auto ignition for regular grade propane is ~842 F., while the DURACOOL® products auto ignition is ~1635 F. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Why does DURACOOL® have the scent of propane?
[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]The additive "ethyl mercaptin" is actually a stenching agent that is added for safety reasons. Mercaptan, as it is commonly known, is added to natural gas, propane, butane and virtually all gases as an agent that will alert the user to any leakage. The addition of mercapan should be viewed as a safety feature (see below). Mercaptan is also condensable in the AC system and can not limit performance in any way and will not negatively impact components. The mercaptan smell is not detectable under regular working conditions or under normal install conditions. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Note: It is important to recognize that, whether a refrigerant is toxic or flammable, the risk of leakage into the automobile compartment is very, very minimal. The great thing about DURACOOL 12a® is that the product provides for a built-in safety feature that ensures IMMEDIATE notification to the driver and the drivers family when there is a leak. This safety feature is the addition of 'mercaptan' and this feature is not available with
R-134a. Overall, the safety aspects of the DURACOOL® Refrigerants by far outweigh those of the toxic alternatives available today. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]ENVIRONMENTAL [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Is DURACOOL® Environmentally friendly?
[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Yes. The DURACOOL® line of products is NON-OZONE DEPLETING and NON-GLOBAL WARMING. Only hydrocarbon refrigerants can claim to achieve both of these criteria. GREENPEACE have been long singing the praises of the hydrocarbon technology, and encouraging governments and industry to adopt it over the current products. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Is Global Warming really an issue?
[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]The Government first found that use of [/SIZE][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]CFC-12[/FONT][SIZE=-1] greatly contributes to the depletion of our ozone and has accordingly outlawed the use of the [/SIZE][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]CFC-12[/FONT][SIZE=-1] through a phased-out plan that was greatly accelerated. Now the Government has found that R-134a greatly contributes to the high global warming potential (GWP). The GWP issue has been the focus of the Kyoto Protocol Branch of the United Nations Industrial Development Organization and the issues of temperature changes throughout the world are receiving a great deal of focus. In fact, there has been an agreement with the countries in the United Nations to go forth with a gradual phase-out of HFC's such as R-134a (following in the footsteps of [/SIZE][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]CFC-12[/FONT][SIZE=-1]). We anticipate that the phase-out will be accelerated just as the [/SIZE][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]CFC-12[/FONT][SIZE=-1] phase-out was as investigation and forecasting of global warming is completed and published. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Does Environment Canada endorse this product?
[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Environment Canada does not endorse or approve any refrigerant. They do, however, regulate refrigerants that are found to be harmful to the environment (products such as [/SIZE][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]CFC-12[/FONT][SIZE=-1] and R-134a, both of which are regulated by Environment Canada). Because DURACOOL® is not harmful to the environment, this product is not regulated. [/SIZE]

[SIZE=-1]EFFICIENCY & EFFECTIVENESS [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]IS DURACOOL 12a® efficient?
[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Yes. It has been found to operate even more efficiently than [/SIZE][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]CFC-12[/FONT][SIZE=-1], and significantly better than R-134a. We have recorded energy savings up to 35%. There are also efficiency increases over the long term because the DURACOOL 12a® offers longevity to the air conditioning systems and components. This equates to long term savings on repairs and maintenance of refrigeration and air conditioning equipment. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Do you have clear supporting evidence of higher efficiency, etc?
[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]DURACOOL® labs have converted and documented the energy effectiveness and the superior cooling capabilities. These studies are available through our customer service department of Deepfreeze Refrigerants Inc., the contact information can be found in this document. [/SIZE]

MISCELLANEOUS
[SIZE=-1]Does DURACOOL® manufacture any other hydrocarbons under private label?
[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]No, however, there have been businesses in the US, Canada or via the Internet which have claimed that their product is DURACOOL® "private labeled" and this is absolutely untrue. These businesses are attempting to pass off a poor quality product using the DURACOOL® name for its reputation and acknowledged level of integrity. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]I've been informed that if I put DURACOOL® in my AC system, that it will void the compressor warranty.
[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Many compressor manufacturers claim that they will void a warranty if there is any product other than [/SIZE][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]CFC-12[/FONT][SIZE=-1] or R-134a installed in the system. We can only speculate as to why this statement has been made, with all the benefits over the
R-134a product. This statement is biased and demonstrates a strong allegiance between the OEMs and the compressor manufacturers - such is business these days. These statements are made despite the fact that the DURACOOL® product is less corrosive and has been repeatedly tested and proven to not harm any portion of the air conditioning system. Duracool A/C Compressors are fully warranted with use of Duracool® refrigerants. The use of DURACOOL® Refrigerants can not void [/SIZE][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]a manufactures warranty[/FONT]
[SIZE=-1]Although the compressor companies have made this statement it is virtually untrue. Additionally, compressor manufacturers freely admit that their business is fully aware that DURACOOL® can not harm the system. Compressor manufacturers also freely admit that they do not return compressors when DURACOOL® is installed, although their printed warranty states otherwise. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Are the DURACOOL® products guaranteed?
[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Yes. DURACOOL® Refrigerants Inc. guarantees in writing that the DURACOOL® products will perform as an efficient refrigerant, and will not harm any air conditioning or refrigeration components and equipment. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Where is DURACOOL® Manufactured?
[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]The DURACOOL® product is manufactured by DURACOOL® Refrigerants Inc. DURACOOL® is a company incorporated and operating in Alberta, Canada. DURACOOL® has made Quality Control the over-riding goal, and offer comprehensive technical and back up service. The company is built on integrity and professionalism, and their distributors and employees reflect this in their work ethics and honesty. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Is DURACOOL® all-natural?
[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Yes, DURACOOL® is absolutely all natural and organic. All components and additives are also natural and organic and the blends are fully "condensable" which means that they condense within the AC system. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Are hydrocarbons used in other areas of the world?
[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Overall, the experiences in Europe with ozone depletion and global warming have facilitated the need for government and industry to recognize and deal with the ever-growing environmental issues that face the planet. This has essentially galvanized many world leaders and governments to swing in behind the trend to hydrocarbon technology. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Overseas, there have been over 8 million domestic refrigerators and freezers manufactured out of Germany over the last few years alone, using hydrocarbon refrigerant. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Europe has adopted a new Standard (EN-378) that recognizes the use of hydrocarbons. The Danish government has embraced the use and development of hydrocarbons and applications. German technology is leading the world in applications of hydrocarbon technology in domestic refrigeration. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Most countries have embraced the commitment of the Kyoto agreement to phase out HFCs, which includes the R134a product, and all SNAP approved products. Most countries have recognized that the only alternative is hydrocarbons. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Have there been many automobiles converted to Hydrocarbons? What do you base your conversion estimates on?
[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]In Canada and the United States it is estimated that there have already have been millions of conversions to hydrocarbon refrigerants within automobiles. These estimates have been based solely on the sales figures for hydrocarbon refrigerant sales (since 1990) and the average system installation charge. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Does DURACOOL 12a® contain an additive?
[/SIZE][SIZE=-1]Yes. It is a trade marked™ special synthetic additive and is not available to any other company, (Duracool A/C Oil Chill™) is engineered to our exact specifications. This proprietary additive enhances it's uniqueness and was developed after years of testing and study. The addition of Duracool A/C Oil Chill™ enhances performance and safety to both DURACOOL 12a® and the equipment that it operates in. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Are there major differences between the DURACOOL 12a® product and the HFC R-134a product? [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]Yes, incredibly so! This chart clearly illustrates the differences: [/SIZE]

 

[rotarykid]

DURACOOL......................................®HFC R-134a

Non Global Warming (GWP negligible)....Global Warming (GWP
.....................................................of 3200 on
.....................................................Greenpeace
.....................................................calculations and
.....................................................publications)

Both products non-ozone depleting

Non Toxic

• ................................................Animal testing has
• ................................................indicated that with
• ................................................repeated exposure:
  • ........................................Benign testicular
  • ........................................tumors may
  • ........................................develop
  • .........................................Postmortem will
  • .........................................indicate increased
  • .........................................organ weights
• .................................................Human testing has
• .................................................indicated that with
• .................................................repeated and/or
• .................................................high concentration
• .................................................single exposure
• .................................................humans may
• .................................................experience
• ..................................................any of the
• ..................................................following:
  • ..........................................Reduced oxygen
  • ..........................................intake
  • ..........................................Temporary
  • ..........................................alteration of
  • ..........................................heart's electrical
  • ..........................................activity
  • ..........................................Irregular pulse /
  • ..........................................palpitations
  • ..........................................Inadequate
  • ..........................................circulation
  • ..........................................Heart irregularities
  • ..........................................Tremors and
  • ...........................................other central
  • ...........................................nervous system
  • ...........................................symptoms
  • ..........................................Unconsciousness
  • ...........................................or death
• ..................................................Thermal
• ..................................................decomposition
• ..................................................(exposure to open
• ...................................................flame, glowing
• .................................................. metal surface)
• ...................................................forms
• ..................................................."hazardous"
• ....................................................hydrofluoric acid
• ....................................................and

..........................................................possibly carbonyl

..........................................................fluoride (both of
..........................................................which can cause

..........................................................severe central
..........................................................nervous system
..........................................................reactions)

Compatible with both mineral and synthetic oils,
including PAG and ester oils.
...........................................................Not compatible
...........................................................with mineral oils.
...........................................................Need Ester and
...........................................................PAG oils. Ester
...........................................................oils are very
...........................................................hygroscopic.
...........................................................PAG oils are
...........................................................subject to toxic
...........................................................registration in
...........................................................certain
...........................................................states/regions.
Non corrosive.........................................Highly Corrosive

Pressure"high side"of MVACS approx.150 psi...Pressure "high
.............................................................side" on MVACS
.............................................................approx. 300 psi

Energy efficient compared to [FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]CFC-12[/FONT] R12.......Not energy
.............................................................efficient
.............................................................compared to
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,Geneva,Swiss,SunSans-Regular]......................................................................................................CFC-12[/FONT]

Deepfreeze Refrigerants Inc. National Suppliers of Duracool®, Premium Hydrocarbon Refrigerants.

 

[Fortuna Wolf]

Rotary kid, canst thou stop wholesale copy and pasting?
It would be a lot easier to read if thou merged them into one post with the relevant info in it. Use some links.

 

[ta79pr]

Pointers?

I just got my shipment from redtekstore.com.
I have the oil charge, proseal, and 2 cans of R12a.
I have an empty (mostly) system from a leaking high pressure port, ready to install the replacement fitting.
The question is what exactly is the procedure?
1. I will vacuum the system to verify no leaks and remove moisture, to what about 10 inches? And for how long?

2. Then when I release the vacuum do I need to filter the port or do I just let it suck in garage air when I release the vacuum?

3. Then what first, proseal, oilcharge or r12a? I figure the oil charge. Do I jumper the clutch to make the compressor run or will the 5 ounce can of oil trip it?

4. Same procedural question regarding the proseal.

5. How much? It is 90F outside today if that is part of the equation.


Now for capacity:
According to Alldata.com
Refrigerant R-134a, capacity
Model
Quantity R134a
New Beetle
700 g ±50 g (24.7 oz ±1.8 oz )

That is 8.6 – 9.94 ounces of R12a (according to redtek charts)
According to the charts I am supposed to deduct 3oz for the ProSeal and 2oz for the oil charge.
That means 3.6 – 4.94 ounces of R12a. Can that be right, less than 1 can?

My main concern is the amount of R12a, I guess almost one can?

The following is copied from the online installation guide.

7) Continue with charging process as determined by the RED TEK® 12a conversion chart and adequate cooling is attained. Low pressure gauge should read between 30 and 38 psi. DO NOT OVERCHARGE! EXCEEDING 60 PSI ON LOW SIDE CAN DAMAGE COMPRESSOR!

9) RED TEK® 12a Refrigerant is installed through the LOW SIDE SERVICE PORT AND IS CHARGED AS A LIQUID INTO A "0" ATMOSPHERIC CONDITION. DO NOT INSTALL INTO A SYSTEM WHERE A HARD VACUUM EXISTS. DANGER!! DO NOT INSTALL ON HIGH SIDE SERVICE PORT.

 

[ta79pr]

OK, I filled it all up. I used some teflon tape on the new high side service port. I had the little rubber thing fly out a while back.
I vacuumed it to about 15 inches for about an hour then released the vacuum.
It took the proseal and then the compressor kicked on.Then the oil charge. Then one can of r12a, it is about 34 psi on the low side and blows nice and cool.

 

[chrisfiat]

pull a cac, but if you release it you will get air (moisture) in the system. NEVER EVER let air in the system(most of the altrenatve gasses are bad enough with out air) the vac will asist the freon install< and if properlu vacced will remove moisture.

 

[chrisfiat]

if you have a leak at the service port, either high or low under any circumstance you have a problem. Ypu should be able to remove the service caps and get NO leaks , you need replacement schrader valves if you have any leakagr. this is the most comon leak site in an ac system. STOP FOOLING AROUND you can get badly hurt with this HOT high preasure gosses, take it to a qualified service tech, save your self and the air as well. recover freon don'ty bleed it to the atmosphier

 

[ta79pr]

the schrader valve is what was replaced today, I put some teflon tape on it when I threaded it onto the line. sorry for the confusion.
the instructions state that the system should be filled at zero vacuum, if that is the case how do you release the vacuum from when it is leak tested.

 

[Fortuna Wolf]

chrisfiat, HC12a doesn't work as well if you fill it in a vacuum. It seems to work better with some air in the system and moisture. Since its not a flurocarbon moisture doesn't cause it to become corrosive.

 

[david_594]

STOP FOOLING AROUND you can get badly hurt with this HOT high preasure gosses, take it to a qualified service tech,

Sounds like your a tech of sorts. Tell me, exactly when would he ever come into contact with "HOT high pressure gosses" ? Dead serious question. Sorry, but there is never a risk of coming into contact with any Hot gasses.

 

[rotarykid]

if you have a leak at the service port, either high or low under any circumstance you have a problem. Ypu should be able to remove the service caps and get NO leaks , you need replacement schrader valves if you have any leakagr. this is the most comon leak site in an ac system. STOP FOOLING AROUND you can get badly hurt with this HOT high preasure gosses, take it to a qualified service tech, save your self and the air as well. recover freon don'ty bleed it to the atmosphier

How many techs in the US do you know that actually have experience with a HC freon ?? I know of about a dozzen that have used the stuff in farm & auto equipment over the last 10 years . HC freons are much safer than the older freons they are replacing .

HCs opperate at less than half the pressure & 1/3 of the volume of HFCs or CFCs making them much safer to deal with in ac & refrigeration systems . HCs are not poisoness like HFCs and do produce poisoness gasses when burned like CFCs do .

HFCs are dealy poisoness gasses that can kill without warning . And once missed with oil in a refrigeration system they are flamible at about half the flash point temp that are required for missed HCs & free standing HCs .

CFCs produce Phosgene gas when flash burned , as gass that was used in the trenches during WW I to kill solders .

Just follow the basic rules and you will be fine . R12 , R11 , or R134a is much more dangerous than any HC you might use . And In more than a decade of HCs being widely used there isn't one single documented case of a fire related to HC freons , no where in the world .

Stay away form the high pressure side of the ac system . Do not try to charge the high side ever !!!

As the quick connectors are different size in the high & low side this is much less likely if not impossible to happed in a R134a system .

Do not over chage the system .

Follow the listed filling instructions and you should be fine .

 

[rotarykid]

Oh one more thing , these quick connectors that R134a systems use have a bad habbit under equilized pressure on the low side of exspelling their sealing O-ring gasket . I've seen this first hand .

Unlike the schrader valves of old these quick connector valves used in R134a are not as durable . So if you need to remove the low side connector valve cap in a charged system , make sure if the system is charged that it is in operation to reduce the pressure under that low side quick connector valve .

 

[ta79pr]

thanks guys. I am just amazed at the cooling ability of the R12a with a mere 6 ounces.

 

[LoneStarCRX]

106F today! I have got to get this done!

I talked to Duracool. They said that they recommend installing with a slight vacuum (7-10) but that no vacuum was fine. A hard vacuum was a real no-no. Besides not performing well, the hard vacuum will cause the refrigerant to go in so quickly that it will freeze up the compressor valves or something, which then would cause the high side to be low and the low side to be high.

They said the whole flammability issue came from the R134a guys distributing a video they made to the media showing cars bursting into flames. They did not mention that they filled the cabin with a ton of the stuff before igniting it! The HC folks responded by blowing up a car with R134a the same way. LOL Unfortunately, the R134a folks created enough fear that many state legislatures passed the restrictions (no doubt with a generous lobbying effort by DuPont).