Land Rover Discovery II TDI swap.

Red_Liner740

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 27, 2013
Location
Toronto
TDI
none
They do make it, the ECU's do exist but i remember reading that even though you swap in a manual ECU the Automatic transmission ECU still expects inputs from an automatic powered engine ECU. Very complicated. Not alot of guys have gone down that path so its all unexplored territory.

There was one guy who swapped a V8 engine with a 300tdi and he had to do a lot of electrical and programming work to maintain TC and hill descent with a LR diesel, let alone a VW powerplant.

Besides, the truck has the three amigos anyways and the TC and hill descent dont work. Hill descent really only helps with automatic transmission cars as the engine breaking available with a manual transmission cars is much better.

Disco 2 were the path towards the "even soccer moms can get in and drive offroad" mentality that LR started developing. Not entirely necessary IMO with a competent driver.
 

Dsmart

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 3, 2008
Location
Sudbury
TDI
2004 Jetta TDI Wagon
Maybe you know something I don't but a td5 swap including transmission is north of 5g's IF you can find one. Time wise def longer, but time I have. mismatch of parts. Again. This combination of parts have been put together dozens of times before with hundreds of miles with no issues. How reliable is the td5 going to be when I can't get any replacement parts for it locally?

I've ridden in a swapped liberty with a mildly tuned alh and it moved just fine. 200tdi, 300tdi and td5 all put out around 120hp. How is it that they can haul a disco around but an alh putting out 150whp can't?

Also please don't EVER compare a jacked jetta to a discovery in turns of off road capability. How can I take any of your comments seriously after such a suggestion!?

The pushback I'm seeing here is really making me take the topic down. It's like I offended someone cuz I dared put a small diesel into a truck.

I really wasn't trying to offend you or your project. Just because I have a different opinion about what might be a worthwhile project doesn't mean im questioning you, your ability, your judgement or trying to insult you personally. Imagine having this discussion over a beer in the driveway. I always like to hear everybody's opinion whether its positive or negative because sometimes I get so involved in what im doing I cant see the other side.

Ive swapped a 300tdi into a disco 1 and at the same time upped the power to around the 140hp mark. It drove around reasonably well but really struggled when trying to pull anything or loading it down. The aerodynamics and the fulltime 4wd drivetrain really put a load on the engine...I think that's where the less displacement of the 1.9tdi would start to show but again its just my opinion.

I just finished putting a BEW with a tune into a jeep tj and it is by no means a powerhouse (my gearing doesn't help but its not far off). The jeep tj weighs close to 1000lbs less than a discovery 2 and has half the drivetrain drag to deal with. The aerodynamics between the 2 trucks are pretty close as they are both modeled after refridgerator!

The TD5 swap might seem pricey up front but I know where they are available for around the 5K mark like you had mentioned. Then taking that engine to around 180hp would only be afew hundred more. I think once all is said and done you will have 5K just in your engine/tuning parts and adapters...that's not including everything else that will be needed like a big intercooler and all the plumbing/wiring...etc. I don't need to spell it out as im sure you've been down this road and know how it all adds up.

I do really like the discovery's and was just trying to add some humour by comparing the jetta wagon to them. I also own a jetta wagon tdi and am constantly surprised at how well it handles everything...even mild bush driving. My point was to say that doing the conversion will change the discovery in terms of power/offroad ability/towing capacity to the point where its just not the same vehicle anymore.

Your choice of project didn't offended me at all and im sorry that my post made you feel that way, or that I was insulting you. I think what you are doing is really ambitious and interesting. I find that posting anything but "awesome dude" on these forms gets taken the wrong way simply because there is no body language or tone involved in the discussion. I wouldn't have said anything if I didn't have some experience in what you are trying to do. Goodluck on your project and ill be watching its progress!
 

Red_Liner740

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 27, 2013
Location
Toronto
TDI
none
Fair enough, i guess i was a bit edgy from what i conceived to be an attack. No harm done.

Like i said, i'd love, i mean LOVE to just swap in a 300 tdi over the weekend with a 5spd manual and bobs your uncle...

I've called a few LR importers around here, one wanted 8K, other never got back to me. The logistics of importing one myself, with such a high $$$ upfront on what i see is a gamble is a hard pill to swallow.

The swap wont cost me as much as you might think. So far i'm 500 for all the Toyota parts, 400 for the truck, 800 for the adapter and getting paid about 200 for the ALH engine. so $1500 as i sit. probably another 600 for custom driveshafts, 250 for ebay IC and probably easily another $1K in misc stuff. Maintenance items such as the clutch, master and slave cyl, oil, coolant i wont count seeing as i would have to replace those sooner or later. Injectors and a tune another $1K. The beauty is that the cost is spread over a larger time frame and it doesnt hurt as much, lol.



I really wasn't trying to offend you or your project. Just because I have a different opinion about what might be a worthwhile project doesn't mean im questioning you, your ability, your judgement or trying to insult you personally. Imagine having this discussion over a beer in the driveway. I always like to hear everybody's opinion whether its positive or negative because sometimes I get so involved in what im doing I cant see the other side.

Ive swapped a 300tdi into a disco 1 and at the same time upped the power to around the 140hp mark. It drove around reasonably well but really struggled when trying to pull anything or loading it down. The aerodynamics and the fulltime 4wd drivetrain really put a load on the engine...I think that's where the less displacement of the 1.9tdi would start to show but again its just my opinion.

I just finished putting a BEW with a tune into a jeep tj and it is by no means a powerhouse (my gearing doesn't help but its not far off). The jeep tj weighs close to 1000lbs less than a discovery 2 and has half the drivetrain drag to deal with. The aerodynamics between the 2 trucks are pretty close as they are both modeled after refridgerator!

The TD5 swap might seem pricey up front but I know where they are available for around the 5K mark like you had mentioned. Then taking that engine to around 180hp would only be afew hundred more. I think once all is said and done you will have 5K just in your engine/tuning parts and adapters...that's not including everything else that will be needed like a big intercooler and all the plumbing/wiring...etc. I don't need to spell it out as im sure you've been down this road and know how it all adds up.

I do really like the discovery's and was just trying to add some humour by comparing the jetta wagon to them. I also own a jetta wagon tdi and am constantly surprised at how well it handles everything...even mild bush driving. My point was to say that doing the conversion will change the discovery in terms of power/offroad ability/towing capacity to the point where its just not the same vehicle anymore.

Your choice of project didn't offended me at all and im sorry that my post made you feel that way, or that I was insulting you. I think what you are doing is really ambitious and interesting. I find that posting anything but "awesome dude" on these forms gets taken the wrong way simply because there is no body language or tone involved in the discussion. I wouldn't have said anything if I didn't have some experience in what you are trying to do. Goodluck on your project and ill be watching its progress!
 

Dsmart

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 3, 2008
Location
Sudbury
TDI
2004 Jetta TDI Wagon
I can put you in touch with a guy who lives 1 hour from you who could get you complete 300tdi with transmission/transferbox..as well as everything else you would need for around 4K...I had talked to him last year about getting me a TD5 and if you wanted he could source an entire conversion for around 5K. He is one of the most honest guys ive ever dealt with otherwise I wouldn't bother offering.

I don't want you to abandon your project but I do really want to see someone do the TD5 and tune it up...It would really give people a new outlook on the Discovery on this side of the world.
 

disco biscuit

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 25, 2012
Location
Texas
TDI
2010 Jetta TDI DSG
Listen. Despite what everyone is telling you here...I am a little cautious about the dII elec. But the road you've chosen is done, and I gotta say...I own a 04 d2 and I think its a perfect fit. As I said I also own a TDI Jetta right now and guarantee you, if it'll get everyone to shut up, I will buy your conversion if you decide its not enough. I'm not talking about the engine but all the other pieces you figure out...if they're worth it. Only if you get it running, and decide you can't get enough out of it. Keep in mind I'm only talking about the tranny adapter, tranny, and the little pieces. For what you paid for them, I'll buy almost all your scrap, I only put reserves on it...about things that don't work for me after a test drive.

Google PT Schrams name and get in touch with him. I don't know if I could honor that offer without him.

I feel that good about this swap as far as power is concerned and I would hope, for the sake of progress, you would just ignore the guy trying to sell you a 300tdi. Hell if he wants to do it so bad, maybe he'll shut his trap and do it.

@dsmart...You gotta LR huh? Do it. Post it in a LR forum so I can read about that one. Don't forget Volkswagen invented the term TDI and your on the wrong website to be de-railing about the other.

I would love to hear about your 300 swap...over there. Tell us how you swapped a landy engine in a TDI Jetta, over there. Or here...on your own thread...but... Quit stepping on this dude. Quit comparing a land rover to your POS Heep... shoot, this Lr through the woods is more comparable to a samurai than that giant thing sooo far from the jeeps of willis. The 300 was a disaster in the disco compared to the td5...you should know that if you talk the LR game. Its close in power comparison to this VW TDI, in stock form...Im interested here and its impossible to get anything out of this guys trouble, with you doing this over your heep that didnt turn out right..post pics of it or a link to even prove we shouldn't try to say your just a troll. Show us what you do didn't turn out right maybe help...otherwise I'm starting to get offended.(no offense Reddok, urs is right apparently).
 
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Dsmart

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 3, 2008
Location
Sudbury
TDI
2004 Jetta TDI Wagon
I hope you were drunk when you wrote that. It would be scary to think a sober person would be comfortable spewing out so much misinformed hate.

It seems as though I'm poking the hornets nest here so I'm going to just back away.
 

jimbote

Certified Volkswagen Nut
Joined
Jul 10, 2006
Location
spiral arm, milky way (aka central NC)
TDI
Tacoma 4x4 converted to TDI
you're gonna be more than happy with a tuned ALH running in your rover....my tacoma with the hybrid BHW/ALH is more than adequate (read power to spare)...and it still has alot of headroom for power mods!!....imagine going to the parts counter and asking for a glow plug, valve cover gasket, water pump or other common wear part for a rover diesel.... you'd get blank stares and crickets chirping for sure!!....I love how plentiful parts are for my truck and wouldn't trade it today for a "real" JDM swapped toyota diesel and cash on their end !! ;)
 

Red_Liner740

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 27, 2013
Location
Toronto
TDI
none
Easy everyone....wow, this topic is touching some sensitive issues!! lol

Thanks for the 300tdi offer, i may go down that path on another project but for now this one is sticking with the ALH powerplant.

I already have two offers of random people i've talked to about the swap who would want it done to a Discovery for them...its crazy how much people would love an economical 4x4.

BACK ON TOPIC!

No pictures but the Toyota master cyl can be used. The Discoveries pedal hangers are universal in that all the bits to hang a manual pedal are there, just have to drill a hole through the plate for the master cyl. I purchased Discovery 2 clutch and brake pedal from UK to swap it over without even thinking about the RHD/LHD issue. So even though the pedals fit they are straight as opposed to a curve to the right that LHD pedals have...20 min with a torch and they are bent. The master cyl bolts right up, the attachment pin holes on the rod and arm are the same size, and there is a ton of room in the engine bay for it. The master cyl sits just under the brake lines and it clears nicely, lots of room for the line to the slave cyl to exit towards the fender and do a U turn.

Why did i go with a 4runner master vs Land Rover?
For one, price. Although i do have a used master cyl for the Landy to replace it is in the order of $150+ and its gotta come from UK. 4runner master and slave cyl can be had for less than $30 each and are plentiful locally. A far bigger issue i wanted to avoid was the ratio. I'm not sure what the fluid displacement difference is between the two master cylinders. If the landy displaces much less or much more fluid for the same stroke lenght it would throw off the pedal engagement and travel way too much. I think its a given that i'll be using the 4runner slave cyl.
 

joker5k1

New member
Joined
Jun 26, 2013
Location
pennsylvania
TDI
none yet
I'm going to be watching this closely, I always wanted to put a modern diesel into an RRC, but had pretty much given up on anything but a 4bt, or the smaller b3.3t. I'm really hoping this works out and wish you the best of luck.

On a side note, maybe someone has more experience than I do, but I cant help but feeling that you could swap the bell housing off of an Audi 4hp24 and make the swap a little quicker. All that aside, as I said earlier i have high hopes for this and commend you for your efforts so far.

-Joe
 

disco biscuit

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 25, 2012
Location
Texas
TDI
2010 Jetta TDI DSG
I was wondering if there was a zf tranny somewhere in the Volkswagen family that was close. Just figuring out if the patterns are the same. I thought it would be easier but then you gotta keep that controller. I can see a lot of benefit doing this swap in a manual though.
 

Red_Liner740

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 27, 2013
Location
Toronto
TDI
none
I'm going to be watching this closely, I always wanted to put a modern diesel into an RRC, but had pretty much given up on anything but a 4bt, or the smaller b3.3t. I'm really hoping this works out and wish you the best of luck.

On a side note, maybe someone has more experience than I do, but I cant help but feeling that you could swap the bell housing off of an Audi 4hp24 and make the swap a little quicker. All that aside, as I said earlier i have high hopes for this and commend you for your efforts so far.

-Joe
Hmm possibly, if i wanted to keep it auto, why i dont. Keeping the automatic even if possible was never an option on me. I've gone to great lenghts to always drive a manual car, i even created the very first north american E34 540i wagon with 5 spd manual.

Anywho, heres some pics.

This is what RHD brake and clutch pedals look like. Straight! That is a brake pedal pictured, the clutch pedal has the top cylinder reversed. i opted to keep the auto pedal and just cut down the foot pad as opposed to bending and welding again.



Here is the clutch pedal bent into shape, the foot pad was removed and rewelded to a more suitable position.

dont mind the welds, i have a crappy flux core welder and last time i melted metal was probably 6 months ago with first time being 7 months ago! lol





Master cylinder hole cut and positioned. Only one bolt used for testing, second one will come later





This is what it looks like sitting next to the break booster.

 

dareo

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 1, 2005
Location
Orem, Utah
TDI
1999.5 Silver GL
Cool swap! I think it will move just fine. The stock engine is a gas guzzling pig! i'm sure your conversion will be significantly lighter. There was a discovery in the family years ago, very very bad MPG and reliability out of that V8. You can't do any worse. It was a great offroader though!

I'd suggest a full complement of gauges since you will be pushing the engine pretty hard. I want to see the actual weight when its done.
 

Red_Liner740

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 27, 2013
Location
Toronto
TDI
none
Okay, another update

Replaced the rear main seal, installed for the final time the Acme V6 adapter, cleaned, bolted and torqued the flywheel and installed the 1600lbs pressure plate with the 6 puck ceramic clutch. That is as far as i can see the highest power holding combination i could find. Hopefully it will be enough.



Passenger side motor mount. For the love of god dont judge how it looks. There was a few times where i wanted to just toss the HF flux-core welder in the garbage. The amount of spatter was just insane. I have to take them off, clean them up and paint. Should look much better.
It is bolted to 4 places on the block, the upper bolt behind the turbo has a 10mm spacer behind it to make it lever with the other upper bolt.

Lots of clearance for the re-clocked turbo and also should have enough clearance for larger turbochargers down the line.

Dont mind the JB weld mess on the block, i was fixing a broken part. :rolleyes:



Drivers side. Left extra long as i'm not 100% where the mount will actually be, i can always cut off the excess later.



The trimming of the ACME adapter plate to clear the coolant return line

 

gravzzy

New member
Joined
Apr 23, 2012
Location
Charny, Quebec, Canada
TDI
none yet
Progress??

Need more...

I look forward to see how the T-case will fit between the framerails and with the C-members. I used to read that on a Defender if you mix gearbox generations the tabs on the frame aren't the same so lots of them were torched and rewelded when the gearbox is replaced (it seems to happen a lot with the LT77...)
 

Red_Liner740

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 27, 2013
Location
Toronto
TDI
none
Frig....damn Land Rovers....they multiply!!!



In regards to the swap, the lower engine mounts were made and welded to the frame, the engine is in, sitting on the mounts, havent worked on it in last couple of days due to the other Disco i have to take apart.

It has some nice goodies on it and i got it for a steal!

The transmission looks friggin tiny in the tranny tunnel, LOL tons of room to go up, down, left or right. As of now, the way its sitting the stock mount bracket on the frame and the stock mounts on the tranmission are lined up, so i will just have to connect the two with some steel plate and box it. should be easy.
 
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pbrink

New member
Joined
Oct 4, 2013
Location
Indy
TDI
06 jetta
bump??

Any new developments on your project? I have a 2000 DII and have been thinking about this type of a swap for some time. It looks fantastic! I'm reall interested to see how it turns out.
 

madwelshman

New member
Joined
May 29, 2013
Location
Pembrokeshire, West Wales
TDI
VW Touran 1.9
The Land Rover Tdi is a great engine, either 200 or (94 on) 300. The 300's do blow head gaskets, but usually around 100,000 miles and possibly again 80-100,000 later(unless there is a problem or they've really been cooked).
Both engines can be DIY tweaked, approx. 25bhp extra with just a quick pump mod(no parts needed) and shortening the wastegate linkage.
So, a standard Tdi is 111bhp, or approx. 136bhp with just the pump/wastegate adjustments.
Then if you want, go for a more efficient intercooler, single box exhaust etc etc.

Both engines can mount onto a R380 Landy gearbox (if you want manual) and both would therefore mount to a Landy auto box if that was the way you wanted to go. The TD5 and V8 bellhousings are different to the Tdi.

Will
 

itjstagame

New member
Joined
Oct 31, 2006
Location
Latham, NY
TDI
None
This needs a bump. I see you haven't posted anywhere on the board in a while but I would like to know how you made out and what happened to your project.

I have been planning a swap to a different vehicle but just got a discovery and while it's a lot of fun I would love a more economical and reliable power train. It's really not worth more than winter/local beater right now with stock engine at 13 mpg....
 

Ephry

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 1, 2006
Location
Gaithersburg, MD
TDI
2003 GLS Golf TDI
You'll love it man! A pepped up tdi is a surprising monster. Do yourself a major favor and upgrade the turbo. nozzles, pump, and tune now. You can go broke trying to be cheap.

Get a MAF, EGR, and IMMO delete tune for standalone operation with a 4 bar map. Can eliminate all the factory chassis modules with no faults this way. TD Tuning is my recommendation.
11 mm pump (if you didn't use an engine out of an auto car, didn't notice if you ever said)
race 520 nozzles
arp head studs
4 bar map sensor
intercooler (which you should be doing no matter what turbo you run anyway)
1756vk turbo with passat manifold. Cheaper than a 17/22 and far better performance.

That little recipe will get you a smokeless 200-210whp/320-340wtq in a jetta with egt's never breaking 1350F. That would make the disco scoot for sure.
Old post I know. I am seriously considering going this route instead of the 2.5 NA motor. Going Standalone on the TDI will also mean less issues and can keep the stock gauges sort of working. No need for a wild tune as I will be more than happy with the stock output and RPM range with the LTY77 transmission.
 
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