truman said:
I have an '03 JW w/ reds, which are a great improvement over the stock setup. However, my wife's 04 Mazda 6 wagon has a much superior suspension in stock mode. The Mazda has a near perfect balance between control and comfort. I cannot imagine what could be done to my Jetta to make it handle as nicely as the Mazda.
Great! Another Bingo!
And please allow me to continue the bold from you quote and make it more complete:
"I cannot imagine what could be done to my Jetta to make it handle as nicely as the Mazda" ...... and maintain the comfort at the same time!
This is exactly the very bottom line all these threads on vortex and here that have been leading to, at the very end - every car is a very complex system (as far as suspension goes) and the
character of the car is decided way before the car is even born as a project! It is not that VW's suck, but Mazda's are great by default just because the M's engineers are better than the VW's engineers. It is just that the two companies have two very different philosophies and are aiming at two very different markets (type of people) and their respective cars reflect
that in their stock form. Everybody knows the "Zoom-zoom" thing that had been going around for years now and almost everyone thought it was just another marketing
bla bla, but it is not - they decided to make fun cars (to drive) and today every single model of their line, included the space wagon Mazda 5 (the mini-mini van) offers something that an
equally priced Volkswagen does not - and that is:
Great Handling Feel with also Great Comfort level!
Something we will NEVER achieve with our cars, no matter what spring or dampers or bars we put. We can tweak and personalize here and there, but the result will never be like what for example Mazda is doing with their line of cars.
And here is the time to say that most probably, when the average thread appears and the poster asks for "How can I improve handling while not sacrificing much comfort" - all and all the poster is looking for is exactly a Mazda experience in his VW. I would invite everyone to go test drive a moder Mazda 3, 6 and even 5 (Not the MX-5, which is the Miata, but the Mazda 5 which is the mini-mini van) and see what I am talking about....
And let's get to the M5 (Mazda 5) now, so for those who have no experience I would like to explain little bit why all this attention suddenly. If we compare that car to let's say a
Jetta A4, the M5 is total loser on paper! It weights more than 3400 lb (that's about 400 lb more than a
Jetta A4), it is tall, it is big, it has very soft suspension and on top of that it rides on 17" wheels with rather low profile tires (50 series)! All this togethere would make that car pure pig with poor handling and not so good ride quality ...... you would think! ....... In reality, as Danix knows very well, it is exactly the other way around and only ownership of both cars would make you beleive so! The M5 feels like is the ligther car, it feels by far the better "handler", it is so much fun to drive, it has very quick responces, absolutely great change directions characteristics and at the very same time the comfort levels are like nothing that VW offers in the 20K range cars! The only thing that I would add to that car is a Turbo, so it gets some torque and more power up there and it is going to be the must-have-fun-car with great other features. It simply puts a counterpart VW into shame when it comes to the above mentioned balance between "handling" and comfort and fun to drive factor!..... LEt's do not even talk about the Mazda 3 or 6, which are actually cars. There is not even comparison! But the nice part about comparing the "loser" mini mini van to the
Jetta is because everyone is convinced that heavy and tall vehicles can not "handle" by default, yet Mazda did the trick and that car is reality and everyone can go try what I am talking about....
Now, the question is HOW did the make it? And that is the point from the begining of this post - it was meant to be this way on paper before even the project began. And so, they made the car with proper geometry, proper bushings, proper everyhitng so even a heavy tall pig can still ride great and be fun to drive for a sporty minded person. And this is why there is very little we can do to our cars to have the cake and eat it too - because it was not meant to be this way and so we can not just bolt on something on a "on-purpose-screwed-project" and fix it for good. It does not work that way.
To really improve our cars in the Mazda way (handle great and comfort/complaince/grip great), we have to start working on a lot more than just the springs and dampers. One of the ways (and this to answer the other post about the Audi TT hardware) is to go precisely the ""TT Way", while keeping the OE springs and midl dampers (just like the TT has it) ...... but then this opens another long line of issues, so well beaten to death in another thread about why is it actually dangerous to go the "TT Way" on our A4 platform. The short answer is - you improve the front, but the rear stays the same and that is not the best move, etc.... It had been discussed in great details by Ceilidh in the "What is Handling?" thread, so let's do not go over it one more time here. That thread is long but is not bad idea for the newer members to go through it and see what was all that about....
Cheers everybody ..... and go testdrive a stock Mazda 5
