Kerma Tdi Review

vplukas101

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 14, 2015
Location
darien IL
TDI
2015 sportwagen
So iv had a kerma tdi tune for about a month now, put on 4,500 miles and figured it was time to tell people about it. Install was super easy, Install the software on your computer, Plug it in the obd2 port, copy the factory file, email your stock file, wait for a email back, plug it in your car and your set. The car drives great power has gone up, Drivability is improved and the car pulls like a freight train. I am getting 42mpg's with city driving and on the highway i am getting 64mpg cruising at 70mph. I wasn't sure about buying a tune until after the dust from diesel gate settled but I said screw it and have not regretted it. 10/10 would recommend.





 

Sunnyb

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 12, 2008
Location
MI
TDI
2015 GSW
I plan in getting one after the settlement. What transmission do you have and have you had any problems with the tune?
 

vplukas101

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 14, 2015
Location
darien IL
TDI
2015 sportwagen
I plan in getting one after the settlement. What transmission do you have and have you had any problems with the tune?
I have a manual, no problems only thing that scared me the first night I got it I was driving like a idiot on the highway thinking I had a GTI now and the car would loose power at high rpms high load, emailed the tuner and he said this was a safety they built in to keep my EGT'S from getting to hot.

I bought a polar FIS and I'm waiting for them to release the software for the MQB platform cars so I can monitor my EGT's

With normal driving and not driving like a asshat I have no issues.
 

adjat84th

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Location
Virginia Beach, VA
TDI
'01 Jetta TDI/'15 Golf TDI
I believe that fuel economy at highway may be the instant reading on the dash? Do a full tank at 70mph and report back fuel economy ;) I have a turbo-back exhaust w/tune and the best tank average I have accomplished is 55mpg. I do 90% highway at or below 70mph, so I'm curious. Still amazing what these cars can manage with just a tune though!

I'm also waiting till the new MK7 update comes out for the Polar units. Can't wait to have all that info right there in the MFD instead of running multiple gauges, wiring, sensors, etc!
 

vplukas101

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 14, 2015
Location
darien IL
TDI
2015 sportwagen
I believe that fuel economy at highway may be the instant reading on the dash? Do a full tank at 70mph and report back fuel economy ;) I have a turbo-back exhaust w/tune and the best tank average I have accomplished is 55mpg. I do 90% highway at or below 70mph, so I'm curious. Still amazing what these cars can manage with just a tune though!

I will get back to you on that, before my car would barley hit 39 city and 50 on the fuel economy since start display. What kind of fuel are you using? I'm stuck with B20 out here in chicago
 

adjat84th

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Location
Virginia Beach, VA
TDI
'01 Jetta TDI/'15 Golf TDI
I almost always fill at either Love's (B18) or when I'm in Carolina QuikTrip (at least B5). I actually wish bio was easier to find down here in VA with its added lubricity qualities which benefit the fuel system.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
 

Mr.TDI

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 7, 2015
Location
NC
TDI
15 GSW
what are you going to do about any fixes down the line? i would assume kerma would need to make some adjustments

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk
 

vplukas101

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 14, 2015
Location
darien IL
TDI
2015 sportwagen
what are you going to do about any fixes down the line? i would assume kerma would need to make some adjustments

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk
Going to flash it to stock before going in... Get the "fix" and then copy the file and send it back to karma for a new adjustment... They do free re tunes if you go bigger turbo or the EPA fix
 

Shife

Veteran Member
Joined
May 8, 2015
Location
Michigan
TDI
2015 GSW SE DSG White/Beige
Edit - Kerma is sending me an updated file to address my concerns.
 
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vplukas101

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 14, 2015
Location
darien IL
TDI
2015 sportwagen
I pulled the Kerma tune and put the Malone back in. My reasons for this are the suspiciously inflated MPG figures that the car reports (no where close to reality), The extremely high EGT temps, and the extended time to warm up.

I made Charlie aware of the EGT limit codes I was getting (the tune was routinely hitting 1650f and over on the highway), the inflated MPG readings, and the long warm up several months ago. The tune was definitely producing more power than the Malone tune I have, but I don't believe it is safe long term.
I will try to get some more data once I have my polar FIS installed.
 

adjat84th

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 13, 2008
Location
Virginia Beach, VA
TDI
'01 Jetta TDI/'15 Golf TDI
There is an adjustment you can make using VCDS to have the MFD calculated economy figures better match your actual calculations. I have mine set at an 8% difference (108% in the adaptation box), and it's always within +/- 1mpg.
 

Shife

Veteran Member
Joined
May 8, 2015
Location
Michigan
TDI
2015 GSW SE DSG White/Beige
There is an adjustment you can make using VCDS to have the MFD calculated economy figures better match your actual calculations. I have mine set at an 8% difference (108% in the adaptation box), and it's always within +/- 1mpg.
Edit - Kerma is sending me an updated file to address my concerns.

I take no pleasure in reporting my experience with this, but after several private requests for information regarding tunes on the mk7 tdi, I feel this is important to discuss. The Kerma tune definitely produces more power, however this comes at a price, namely bouncing off the EGT limiter and setting P2478 codes, the first of which occurred Feb 2nd 2016. The Kerma tune also posts slightly higher 1-2 mpg on average.. again at a price, this time with extremely long warm up times and suspiciously altered MFD readings that are substantially in error compared to the readings I see with stock or the Malone tune.I'm open to the idea that this may be an isolated case. All of the above has been reported to the tuner as of June 6. At that point I would get the P2478 code once or twice per month. I started monitoring the OBD2 stream in August after a day where the code reset minutes after I cleared it on a drive to Detroit. I pulled the tune after seeing how high the EGTs spiked under acceleration. I'm just not comfortable with those temps, as well as what appears to be a direct attempt to manipulate and post higher than actual mpg figures at this time.
 
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vplukas101

Well-known member
Joined
Sep 14, 2015
Location
darien IL
TDI
2015 sportwagen
I know this. My larger concern is why is the Kerma tune showing grossly inflated numbers? I have had no response to my questions about this from Kerma.
I take no pleasure in reporting my experience with this, but after several private requests for information regarding tunes on the mk7 tdi, I feel this is important to discuss. The Kerma tune definitely produces more power, however this comes at a price, namely bouncing off the EGT limiter and setting P2478 codes, the first of which occurred Feb 2nd 2016. The Kerma tune also posts slightly higher 1-2 mpg on average.. again at a price, this time with extremely long warm up times and suspiciously altered MFD readings that are substantially in error compared to the readings I see with stock or the Malone tune.I'm open to the idea that this may be an isolated case. All of the above has been reported to the tuner as of June 6. At that point I would get the P2478 code once or twice per month. I started monitoring the OBD2 stream in August after a day where the code reset minutes after I cleared it on a drive to Detroit. I pulled the tune after seeing how high the EGTs spiked under acceleration. I'm just not comfortable with those temps, as well as what appears to be a direct attempt to manipulate and post higher than actual mpg figures at this time.
How did you measure warm up time and how did you drive when you would set the p2478 code?
 

South Coast Guy

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2010
Location
Mattapoisett, MA
TDI
2009 Jetta TDI wagon
I know this. My larger concern is why is the Kerma tune showing grossly inflated numbers? I have had no response to my questions about this from Kerma.
I take no pleasure in reporting my experience with this, but after several private requests for information regarding tunes on the mk7 tdi, I feel this is important to discuss. The Kerma tune definitely produces more power, however this comes at a price, namely bouncing off the EGT limiter and setting P2478 codes, the first of which occurred Feb 2nd 2016. The Kerma tune also posts slightly higher 1-2 mpg on average.. again at a price, this time with extremely long warm up times and suspiciously altered MFD readings that are substantially in error compared to the readings I see with stock or the Malone tune.I'm open to the idea that this may be an isolated case. All of the above has been reported to the tuner as of June 6. At that point I would get the P2478 code once or twice per month. I started monitoring the OBD2 stream in August after a day where the code reset minutes after I cleared it on a drive to Detroit. I pulled the tune after seeing how high the EGTs spiked under acceleration. I'm just not comfortable with those temps, as well as what appears to be a direct attempt to manipulate and post higher than actual mpg figures at this time.
Only one way to measure fuel economy; divide miles driven by fuel used.
 

Shife

Veteran Member
Joined
May 8, 2015
Location
Michigan
TDI
2015 GSW SE DSG White/Beige
How did you measure warm up time and how did you drive when you would set the p2478 code?
I drive the same 35 mile commute 5-6 days per week at the same time every morning. In freezing temps, I need to drive 6-7 miles before the temp gauge starts to move vs 3 miles or so stock. The EGT code would set on freeway entrance ramps or when accelerating on the highway.
 

Shife

Veteran Member
Joined
May 8, 2015
Location
Michigan
TDI
2015 GSW SE DSG White/Beige
Only one way to measure fuel economy; divide miles driven by fuel used.
I've logged every single tank over 40k miles since I purchased this vehicle new with Fuelly. If I suddenly had a 10 mpg increase, I think I'd see it.
 

kermaGSW

Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2016
Location
avon
TDI
2015 Golf Sportwagen
Shife we have the 2015 tdi in house as one of our Kerma cars for testing and development. We have had it since April 2015. We drive it regularly to Denver from Avon CO going over 3 mountain passes one pass at 11,000ft (Eisenhower Tunnel). I have not seen any issues with EGT that you stated on my drives and it is perfectly safe the way i drive it. If anyone is in the colorado area i can take them for a test drive to show and explain how the Kerma tune performs and excels over mtn passes and long distance driving. The PolarFIS will soon be on it for the most accurate info. I will post a video once we have polarFIS on the Golf Sportwagen and will show it performing over the mtn passes.
 

kermaGSW

Member
Joined
Jan 20, 2016
Location
avon
TDI
2015 Golf Sportwagen
sneak peek 2015/2016 Golf or Golf Sportwagen PolarFIS.
 
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Shife

Veteran Member
Joined
May 8, 2015
Location
Michigan
TDI
2015 GSW SE DSG White/Beige
I should note that Kerma is in communication and my experience is likely unique, as I believe my files are beta and not the same as the files sold commercially. While I will not withhold information from other enthusiasts, I do not want my previous posts to dissuade someone from considering Kerma's product and those posts should be kept in the context of a beta tune. I will be trying another revision which hopefully will work the bugs in my current beta file out. Charlie has committed to moving this forward and I will do my part to keep him updated.
 

JohnBlutarsky

Member
Joined
Sep 21, 2015
Location
Northern Colorado
TDI
2015 Golf TDI S
I've had the Kerma tune for nearly three months now on my 2015 Golf TDI S, and it has been fantastic. Very smooth delivery of power and no codes (checked with VCDS) - great product and service.
 

JohnBlutarsky

Member
Joined
Sep 21, 2015
Location
Northern Colorado
TDI
2015 Golf TDI S
Actual numbers are slightly better, maybe by a 2-3 mpgs. My latest tank was 44mpg of mixed driving, but I do tend to enjoy the acceleration more than I should (but it's so fun!), so I'm sure I could do better. The display is waaay over-optimistic after the tune, so it's best not to get too excited until you can actually calculate by hand.
 

South Coast Guy

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2010
Location
Mattapoisett, MA
TDI
2009 Jetta TDI wagon
Actual numbers are slightly better, maybe by a 2-3 mpgs. My latest tank was 44mpg of mixed driving, but I do tend to enjoy the acceleration more than I should (but it's so fun!), so I'm sure I could do better. The display is waaay over-optimistic after the tune, so it's best not to get too excited until you can actually calculate by hand.
I agree; the only accurate way to measure fuel economy is to divide miles by gallons used. I also am curious how you can simultaneously get more horsepower AND better fuel economy.
 

JohnBlutarsky

Member
Joined
Sep 21, 2015
Location
Northern Colorado
TDI
2015 Golf TDI S
I also am curious how you can simultaneously get more horsepower AND better fuel economy.
It's always seemed magical to me as well! I'd even be happy to take a hit in economy for the power that the Kerma tune delivers, but it manages a small mpg bump along with the pretty substantial power improvement.

My plan was to get the tune well in advance of deciding on whether I should keep the car or do the buyback. Needless to say, I'm keeping it!!
 

Sunnyb

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 12, 2008
Location
MI
TDI
2015 GSW
I should note that Kerma is in communication and my experience is likely unique, as I believe my files are beta and not the same as the files sold commercially. While I will not withhold information from other enthusiasts, I do not want my previous posts to dissuade someone from considering Kerma's product and those posts should be kept in the context of a beta tune. I will be trying another revision which hopefully will work the bugs in my current beta file out. Charlie has committed to moving this forward and I will do my part to keep him updated.

What does that mean? Do you have a different file then what everyone else buys off the web site? And what about the exhaust gas temperature concerns?
 

KERMA

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Sep 23, 2001
Location
here
TDI
99 beetle and 04 jetta
thanks for the feedback fellas.

To be clear, every one of SHife's Concerns has been addressed in subsequent production versions. It's too bad he jumped ship so soon.

Just so we are clear on a few things. To put things in perspective, here's what I was sent in e-mail:

Freeze frame report generated by Torque for Android
=========================================================

Vehicle VIN: 3VWCA7AU2FM(redacted)
Vehicle Manufacturer: Volkswagen
Vehicle Calibration ID: 04L

Freeze frame information:
------------------
Engine Load = 85.098 %
Engine Coolant Temperature = 194 °F
Engine RPM = 3,347.5 rpm
Speed (OBD) = 95.691 mph
Mass Air Flow Rate = 138.66 g/s
Throttle Position(Manifold) = 83.922 %
Run time since engine start = 1,889 s
Barometric pressure (from vehicle) = 14.214 psi
Voltage (Control Module) = 14.62 V
Relative Throttle Position = 100 %
Ambient air temp = 30.2 °F
Accelerator PedalPosition D = 62.745 %
Accelerator PedalPosition E = 63.137 %

End of report

Those conditions (100% throttle at 95 mph in 5th gear) will definitely generate high EGT. That's what the egt limiter is for. (the diesel truck guys do understand this) It would be wrong to disable the factory safety features and turn off the codes. The car should be fun, yet tell you when to back off, and if you don't... it will do it for you. We prefer an abundance of caution and an occasional limiter making itself known, instead of covering it up by fooling the egt sensors (or switching them around) and turning off the associated DTC. For example one competitor offers "EGT delete" and switches the sensors physical locations to "fool" the sensor and still achieves smaller gains than the kerma "everythign stock" tune in the CJAA for example, and runs 32 psi to try and control EGT. (on an "upgrade" turbo the factory runs at 24 psi) We will not do that. In fact, the EGT limiter in this tune remains 100% stock to retain OEM levels of safety.

And, DId I mention... The current versions of the Stage 1 and stage 1+ tunes have absolutely ZERO EGT issues at all... and are much more powerful than before!

And yes, much to my regret, Shife did get some stuff before it's released to everyone else. One of my personal failings is I am a VERY poor judge of character. Our development car is a manual transmission so i figured it might be helpful to have one or two willing beta testers with a DSG model to back up what we find with the in-house car. He sent me that e-mail about the egt and the MPG display on the MFA. IMO the EGT in this case is under somewhat atypical conditions that most folks won't encounter too often. (Maybe 30+ hours on our dyno and the egt limiter does not kick in with he test car, even during regen.) Also IMO no one really believes the MFA in any case, everyone knows those things are never 100% correct anyway. (I actually think it's kind of funny) I kind of left it at that with the last e-mail, I should have probably followed up sooner.

But this MFA issue, too, has been addressed in the current production tunes.

The current offering is the result of many hours of development time that includes 8 months of personal seat time by me and many dyno sessions that add up to something like 35 hours strapped down. And it shows because our Mk7 tune shows roughly 2x the percentage gains that are published by our nearest competitor. It avoids the throttle tip-in delay that the factory (and other tunes) have and is generally much more responsive and fun to drive than anything else available.

The flip side is that there have been some complaints about the tune being TOO powerful. That is something that's been "put out there" by our competitors, who say something to the effect of "If it were possible to make that much power then we would be doing it too". So if course, there must be something "wrong" if kerma is getting 2x the gains of a fully deleted car- even when the kerma tuned car has stock exhaust and stock emissions. The fact of the matter is, it takes a lot more effort and sophisitcation to achieve the results we do.

thanks for your interest and keep the feedback coming! It has been overwhelmingly positive feedback but we do welcome suggestions on what you might like to see done differently.
 
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Sunnyb

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 12, 2008
Location
MI
TDI
2015 GSW
Thanks for the response, that post helps to clear up the issue.
 
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Nutty 5.0

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2014
Location
SE PA
TDI
15 GSW SEL TDI 6MT
Thank you all for sharing. Some questions regarding tunes:
1. Will a purchaser buying a tune now get free retunes if they get "the fix"?
2. The cost of the tune: assume it doesn't include Flashzilla, so add that to costs unless you rent one? I know I'd want one as it's convenient to reflash if there's an issue or need to return to stock. I know on the Ford stuff a custom tune with SCT programmer is $4-500 and capable of 3 tune options. How does Flashzilla work?
3. I'm one that sacrifices power for a safe tune. Does your safeties pull power or throw codes?
Im very interested in a tune but there's not much info out there.
Thanks to all who've shared input both Shife and Kerma.
 

Shife

Veteran Member
Joined
May 8, 2015
Location
Michigan
TDI
2015 GSW SE DSG White/Beige
What does that mean? Do you have a different file then what everyone else buys off the web site? And what about the exhaust gas temperature concerns?
I have never been told that my file was anything other than a beta file intended for release. I have not been sent a new file to test out, and I will not reinstall the previous file as I do not feel bouncing off the egt limiter to be acceptable. I don't know what temp the limiter kicks in at, but I've seen high 1600's without setting a CEL. My current opinion is that the stock turbo is not capable of supporting this much power.
 
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