Judge Did Not Approve Settlement During Today's Hearing

[CraziFuzzy]

Come on.

the settlement included enough details on the fix (for all the cars) to show there is one.

VW is probably trying to get a cheaper version approved.

just looked at edmunds.com, and trade-in on a 2009 tdi is close to $5k. (under $3k as you get close to 200,000 miles)

at $3k, it could be a judgement call by VW to not apply a fix and resell buy-back cars. it all depends on exactly what gets approved.

VW cannot resell the cars unless they are fixed.

 

[turboBear]

VW cannot resell the cars unless they are fixed.

... or ship them outside the country, if I recall what's in the various settlement documents correctly.

 

[grawk]

... or ship them outside the country, if I recall what's in the various settlement documents correctly.

Settlement clearly says they can't ship them out of the country unless they're fixed.

 

[meerschm]

Let me revise and extend my remarks.

for cars which have a trade in value of under $3k, it could be a judgment call by VW to not apply a fix and resell buy-back cars.

The cost of the fix and associated warranty of the car for 4 years/48000 miles may exceed the wholesale return.

in this case, it may make more economic sense to recycle/scrap the car for the few hundred dollars it will generate as scrap.

it all depends on exactly what gets approved, and how much it costs to apply the fix.

 

[grawk]

I think there will be a significant percentage of the cars where the emissions components listed in the settlement are destroyed and the car gets sold for parts/scrap. I don't think there's anyone arguing anything different.

 

[autdi]

They meant after-market options. Like someone was complaining about the cost of their lo-jack. They aren't talking about if you got navigation system from the factory. You get paid for that.

It was after an objection about headlights, no payment for HIDs, which were a $1k+ option.

 

[opelgt21]

http://www.cand.uscourts.gov/filelibrary/2864/Oct-18-Transcript.pdf

I skimmed it, there are some legitimate complains, especially relating to the mileage penalty and trade-in v. Retail. I would personally like to see the value go to retail, before we start adding other options like HID's that don't appear in the NADA guide.

I wish the settlement was more $, but also want it to be over. Hopefully the Judge comes to a decision by 25th and buy-backs can start in Nov.

 

[Cincy_TDI]

Did some digging because turning the car back in I lose the sale tax I paid when in bought my Jetta plus I pay again when I buy a new car. Turns out in Ohio I can apply for a sales tax refund..

http://www.tax.ohio.gov/portals/0/forms/sales_and_use/Generic/ST_STAR.pdf

 

[GoFaster]

Let me revise and extend my remarks.

for cars which have a trade in value of under $3k, it could be a judgment call by VW to not apply a fix and resell buy-back cars.

The cost of the fix and associated warranty of the car for 4 years/48000 miles may exceed the wholesale return.

in this case, it may make more economic sense to recycle/scrap the car for the few hundred dollars it will generate as scrap.

it all depends on exactly what gets approved, and how much it costs to apply the fix.

The threshold will be a lot higher than $3k. For a fix-then-resell to be viable it has to be sellable for more than the cost of the fix plus the expected cost of that warranty plus everyone's profit margins. My guess, anything before 2011, anything over 100,000 mi, anything emissions-deleted, anything with non-trivial body or interior damage goes to the junker. No more than a third of them will get fixed and sold.

 

[Jimmy Coconuts]

Methinks today will be the day for final approval. Judge Breyer's calendar is booked after 3pm PST. Fingers crossed.

 

[speedrye]

Methinks today will be the day for final approval. Judge Breyer's calendar is booked after 3pm PST. Fingers crossed.

Methinks the same thing. Better hurry up too, I'm waiting on this before I send a check to the dealership on a replacement vehicle.

 

[Tabbycat]

Mehopes for today too

 

[atomicfront]

Probably will work on his response over the weekend.

 

[MrWrench]

I was thinking it would today as well. I'm hoping it will be today haha. But I won't be surprised if it's not till Tuesday. I don't know about anyone else, but I was extremely disappointed Tuesday when he didn't rule on the settlement

 

[Debra Morgan]

The threshold will be a lot higher than $3k. For a fix-then-resell to be viable it has to be sellable for more than the cost of the fix plus the expected cost of that warranty plus everyone's profit margins. My guess, anything before 2011, anything over 100,000 mi, anything emissions-deleted, anything with non-trivial body or interior damage goes to the junker. No more than a third of them will get fixed and sold.

If that. I am beginning to wonder fi they will even fix my 2015 when I sell it back. Logically, yes they will fix it, but I get a strange feeling they are going to be somewhat picky about what they re sell.

 

[Debra Morgan]

Did some digging because turning the car back in I lose the sale tax I paid when in bought my Jetta plus I pay again when I buy a new car. Turns out in Ohio I can apply for a sales tax refund..

http://www.tax.ohio.gov/portals/0/forms/sales_and_use/Generic/ST_STAR.pdf

Not sure exactly how we would qualify, it is a buy back and not a refund.

 

[DanCsTDI]

I was thinking it would today as well. I'm hoping it will be today haha. But I won't be surprised if it's not till Tuesday. I don't know about anyone else, but I was extremely disappointed Tuesday when he didn't rule on the settlement

Same. I mean they called it final approval hearing. I am not an attorney, but to me, I was expecting a final approval. Why they waited until that hearing to hear the complaints, instead of having something a few weeks prior, is beyond me. They just keep dragging this out.

 

[DanB36]

Why they waited until that hearing to hear the complaints, instead of having something a few weeks prior, is beyond me.

Because setting hearings is a pain in the ass. You have to find an open spot on the court's calendar, all the lawyers have to be there, etc. The better question would be why they had objectors come speak at all, but if they hadn't, people would have complained about that too. The only way there's value in the objector's speaking is if the judge can (and does) question them, but I only remember that happening with one of them. Otherwise, the objections can (and should) be better made in writing, and no doubt they were.

So instead, you do what Judge Breyer did: you hold a hearing at which everyone can have their say (it's the final hearing on approval of the settlement, not necessarily the hearing at which final approval will be granted--if "final approval hearing" meant the latter, it would be pointless, as scheduling such a thing would be the same as approving the settlement). You let the objectors speak, even though only one or two, at most, added anything that couldn't have gone into their written objections. You then consider everything, including the written materials already filed and the oral statements at the hearing, and issue a ruling shortly.

There's a lot of butthurt over a perceived delay of a week.

 

[DanCsTDI]

There's a lot of butthurt over a perceived delay of a week.

I wouldn't say that, more just frustration. I'm an accountant, and pride myself in the fact that I get stuff done quickly and accurately. I have deadlines and adhere to them. Just sucks to be at the hands of lawyers and courts that have nothing but time.

 

[Jimmy Coconuts]

Same. I mean they called it final approval hearing. I am not an attorney, but to me, I was expecting a final approval. Why they waited until that hearing to hear the complaints, instead of having something a few weeks prior, is beyond me. They just keep dragging this out.

The part that irritates me is nothing new was presented in court on Tuesday that hadn't been submitted previously in writing. There was no new discovery, no new testimony - just the dog and pony show from the complaint brigade.

Even Judge Breyer said to one of them you can't start nitpicking individual components, because the settlement must be judged as a whole.

It should have been a slam dunk. Get on with it already!

 

[Cincy_TDI]

Not sure exactly how we would qualify, it is a buy back and not a refund.

Because VW is buying the car back, you lose the trade in which helps drop the sales tax. If you live in Ohio you apply for the tax refund.

 

[DanB36]

The part that irritates me is nothing new was presented in court on Tuesday that hadn't been submitted previously in writing.

None of us know that, because none of us have seen all the written objections that were submitted--though I agree this is very likely the case. But in general, judges try not only to do the right thing, but to be seen to be doing the right thing. In this case, "the right thing" includes considering all the objections.

There was never a promise that the judge would rule at Tuesday's hearing. Many of us (myself included) expected that he would, but neither he, anyone from the court, nor any of the attorneys stated that would be the case. He has, however, promised that he will rule by the 25th.

 

[coolbreeze]

None of us know that, because none of us have seen all the written objections that were submitted--though I agree this is very likely the case. But in general, judges try not only to do the right thing, but to be seen to be doing the right thing. In this case, "the right thing" includes considering all the objections.
There was never a promise that the judge would rule at Tuesday's hearing. Many of us (myself included) expected that he would, but neither he, anyone from the court, nor any of the attorneys stated that would be the case. He has, however, promised that he will rule by the 25th.

I CAN"T WAAIT TILL THEN! I Quit

 

[Ted Hurst]

It's not a trade in. The dealer is not trading the car. VW is buying the vehicle back. Would I be able to apply for a sales tax refund ,for the purchase price difference, if I sold my car and then walked into a Dealership to buy a new car?

Because VW is buying the car back, you lose the trade in which helps drop the sales tax. If you live in Ohio you apply for the tax refund.

 

[Tabbycat]

Usually the buyer pays the sales tax, hence it's a consumption tax. Derp

 

[dubStrom]

It's not a trade in. The dealer is not trading the car. VW is buying the vehicle back. Would I be able to apply for a sales tax refund ,for the purchase price difference, if I sold my car and then walked into a Dealership to buy a new car?

It depends on your State's Department of Revenue policy. In Missouri, there is a form called Notice of Sale or Transfer (http://dor.mo.gov/forms/5049.pdf). I called local Motor Vehicle and was told that if I paid tax on the TDI, and then I sell it (including buyback), I have already paid sales tax (more than 7% here), and if I buy another car, I ONLY pay sales tax on the difference between buyback and sale price of the new car. You do not have to call it a "trade-in". Again, you only pay sales tax on the difference...

The sale (or buyback) of the TDI, and the purchase of a different car: DOES NOT have to be done at the same dealer, includes private transactions, AND you have 6 months to do it.

It is NOT clear whether that means the clean trade-in, or the total with restitution. Frankly, I don't think MO DOR wants to split hairs. They will very likely just allow the deduction for the full buyback amount.

Oh, and that form is available for MO residents that have an old title that does not have this form as a perforated tear-off on the issued title (same form, same name- comes with newer titles).

Other States have similar policy, but the key in some cases appears to be that you can demonstrate that you paid sales tax on the TDI (it is on your first registration form).

 

[aenea]

Because VW is buying the car back, you lose the trade in which helps drop the sales tax. If you live in Ohio you apply for the tax refund.

But there's nothing to refund. You are a selling your car to VW and then buying another car from a dealer. Those are different entities. It's not the same transaction and it's not a trade in.

The existance of a form to refund sales tax does not imply that all transactions are eligble for a sales tax refund.

 

[Storz]

Fingers crossed we hear something today!

 

[STRANGETDI]

Will VW sell me an extended warranty. My Warranty runs out in the end of January. If I could get extended it might make me feel better about keeping it the full two year period.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=5153035&postcount=218

 

[Unklmoe]

I would like to hear something soon.... Dont want to think of a timing belt replacement.. I have 105K on a 2010 TDI Cup car....