JSW timing belt - again

[ThomasCo]

So I was just super happy that I did the TB all by myself and the car started and drove like a champ for about 150 miles when I noticed or thought I noticed a little bit of a whining noise when the car is idling (actually it is audible just above idling RPM). So I took everything apart again (much quicker the 2nd time around and was greeted by the small roller looking like this. I am pretty positive that it didn't look like that before I installed it and also checked and confirmed that the old roller didn't look like this. What could be the issue here and what do you guys suggest for next steps? Thanks again-- I feel a little defeated

http://imgur.com/sp6qFiN

 

[turbobrick240]

Looks like it was rubbing against the inside of the plastic cover. I'd try to clean the streaks off the idler with some emery cloth. Probably don't need to take it back apart to do that.

 

[Nuje]

Every time I do a timing belt, the small upper roller always looks like that for the first little while. Just wearing in of the roller / belt as things warm up. I wouldn't worry about it.

 

[turbobrick240]

Yeah, maybe that's just some of the ink from the printing on the belt or something. I never had to crack mine back open to check on anything right after a change.

 

[Mrrogers1]

Yeah, maybe that's just some of the ink from the printing on the belt or something. I never had to crack mine back open to check on anything right after a change.

I've never looks again right after either BUT @ThomasCo the sound you hear could be the accessory belt tensioner. Not sure how many miles are on your car but my car just got it's second TB and I'm going to need to replace the tensioner. It usually only is heard lower in the rpm range, basically at idle and you can visually see it's doing more dancing than usual.

 

[ThomasCo]

Thanks to all of you. I didn’t take off the belt but I re-tensioned it while I was in there and also TTY‘d everything with a smaller torque wrench (the 1/2 in drive one that I used previously was a little difficult to set to 15 or 7, respectively). 2 engine turns later the tensioner is right where it should be, in the middle of the indicator window, and crank and cam lock go in super smoothly. I’m glad I did this because I wasn’t sure if I hit all the right TTY settings before, especially the one for the tensioner lock nut.

@Mrrogers1 Thanks for the pointer, I will order a new serp belt tensioner and replace it on my next oil change in about 4K miles.

 

[Wilkins]

I had a whining noise after the TB install which was the TB cover not quite right. After that was fixed there was still a slight whine, but not as bad as there had been before the TB job. It’s gone now. I think the first whine, which caused me to do the belt a bit before the mileage was due, was the tensioner starting to go. It ran just a bit rough.

 

[roadlust]

Looking for help with installing the new timing belt. The tensioner is as loose as it can go but the belt is shy of going over the large top idler pulley.

Any ideas what could be the problem?

 

[ThomasCo]

Looking for help with installing the new timing belt. The tensioner is as loose as it can go but the belt is shy of going over the large top idler pulley.

Any ideas what could be the problem?

Did you remove the small idler between crank and tensioner? That one needs to go too, then pull the belt from the water pump first.

 

[roadlust]

Yes the small idler pulley is off. I started at the crank pulley as per my turbo diesel video. I will try starting on the water pump.
Thanks.

 

[Mrrogers1]

Yes the small idler pulley is off. I started at the crank pulley as per my turbo diesel video. I will try starting on the water pump.
Thanks.

You can also install without the large idle pulley and then slide it and the small in with tensioner at full loose once the belt is on the toothed pulleys. It's always a pretty snug fit, I usually leave the cam pulley good and loose so it can kind of "tilt" to help slide the belt in right.

 

[roadlust]

Too late leaving the large idler pulley off it is already on and torqued.

I guess I am too old for this ****!!!...it ain't going on just too tight. Maybe if I had a minimum of 3 hands the third attached to a 5ft arm.lol

 

[roadlust]

Okay I finally got it on but the crank and fuel pump cogs are not in the center. Is that going to be a problem?

 

[ThomasCo]

Okay I finally got it on but the crank and fuel pump cogs are not in the center. Is that going to be a problem?

Wait. Back up a second. You were supposed to lock the crank (bottom sprocket) with the sprocket lock. Did you do that?

You were supposed to lock the cam with a pin. Did you do that?

If you did both and the fuel pump notch is a tad off, no big deal. If the cam or crank moved, something might be very wrong. Post some pics and We’ll go from there

 

[roadlust]

I did place the pins in their proper places. What I was refering to is the elongated holes that allow those cogs to turn. The bolts are suppose to be in the middle of the hole. I read that the reason for this is they move when setting the tension.

 

[ThomasCo]

I did place the pins in their proper places. What I was refering to is the elongated holes that allow those cogs to turn. The bolts are suppose to be in the middle of the hole. I read that the reason for this is they move when setting the tension.

Gotcha. I can tell you from experience that my cam sprocket bolts were not centered either. It just limits you as far as adjustments go later when you tension and/or need to align cam and crank.

 

[Mrrogers1]

I did place the pins in their proper places. What I was refering to is the elongated holes that allow those cogs to turn. The bolts are suppose to be in the middle of the hole. I read that the reason for this is they move when setting the tension.

They don't have to be "centered" but they shouldn't be all the way to one side or the other. If they are, you are going to need to pull belt off and do again. The "cam" sprocket is more important than the pump but neither should be fully at their stops. If you need to take belt off to adjust, mark the belt/sprocket so you can confirm you have moved (usually 1 tooth should get you where you need to be).

Take that large roller and small rollers off, save yourself some headache and pain, it should be pretty easy to remove the rollers and re-torque.

 

[roadlust]

Thanks for that information Mrrogers1. They are not all the way to the stop. I set the tensioner and turned the crank 2 full revolutions and according to Myturbodiesel I should be able to put the crank and cam pins back in and if one can't adjustments need to be made to the cam. No adjustment will allow the cam pin to go in. With a mirror it looks like t it should go in but it doesn't.

It cycled through two rotations without interference.

 

[ThomasCo]

Thanks for that information Mrrogers1. They are not all the way to the stop. I set the tensioner and turned the crank 2 full revolutions and according to Myturbodiesel I should be able to put the crank and cam pins back in and if one can't adjustments need to be made to the cam. No adjustment will allow the cam pin to go in. With a mirror it looks like t it should go in but it doesn't.

It cycled through two rotations without interference.

Turn it over twice again, this time lock the cam first. With the pin in, see if the crank lock is a slip fit. If not, figure out if you need to turn crank clockwise or counterclockwise in order for the lock to fit. Then look at cam sprocket, would it allow that movement or are the bolts too close to the ends of the slots?

 

[ThomasCo]

Also, what does your tensioner show after the two turns? I was able to make the above adjustment but after two turns the locks were not slip fits. I figured out only much later that my tensioner was a little loose.

 

[roadlust]

I for got check the tension, it is too loose. I will reset it and crank it 2 more revolutions and reset pins...thanks.

 

[roadlust]

Not having any success getting the crank pin in I turned the crank back 2 revolutions to where I started. Everything is as it was when I first got the belt on and was able to get all 3 pins in. Still can't get the cam pin to go in. With a mirror it appears as though it would go in but it just won't. I have spent an hour moving the crank back and forth with no success.

It seems as though the timing has changed.

Edit to add that the cam and crank retaining bolts are nearly centered now.

 

[ThomasCo]

Not having any success getting the crank pin in I turned the crank back 2 revolutions to where I started. Everything is as it was when I first got the belt on and was able to get all 3 pins in. Still can't get the cam pin to go in. With a mirror it appears as though it would go in but it just won't. I have spent an hour moving the crank back and forth with no success.

It seems as though the timing has changed.

Edit to add that the cam and crank retaining bolts are nearly centered now.

Assuming that you still didn’t get crank and cam lock in after 2 turns, lock the cam first. Then loosen cam bolts and turn crank either clockwise oder counterclockwise until crank lock fits. Then tighten cam bolts, turn engine over twice and check then. Make sure tension is spot on before doing this. Good luck dude

 

[roadlust]

Assuming that you still didn’t get crank and cam lock in after 2 turns, lock the cam first. Then loosen cam bolts and turn crank either clockwise oder counterclockwise until crank lock fits. Then tighten cam bolts, turn engine over twice and check then. Make sure tension is spot on before doing this. Good luck dude

Thanks for your help. The cam pin won't go in no matter what the crank position is.

I have tried everything I can think of and now when I turn it 2 revolutions The resistance is the same but I can hear a clicking noise in the top of the engine. It is definitely out of time.

Does anyone know how to go about getting it back into time? TIA

 

[roadlust]

I can't find any write ups of how to reset the cam timing. I would be just guessing on who to go about it and things are screwed up enough as it is.

 

[Nuje]

Can't remember which engine (BEW, CJAA, or BRM - all basically have the same process) it was I recently did where I had a helluva time trying to get the crank lock pin slid in. With the cam locked, I put a 19mm wrench on the crank bolt and was lightly pushing the wrench back and forth on the bolt head, and it just would. not. go. Then I stopped to take a breath and invent a couple new curse phrases, leaving the wrench just hanging on the bolt....and the suddenly the lock pin just slid right in.

That's when I decided, "close enough".

Started right up. No issues. Torsion value at +2.0.

 

[ThomasCo]

Can't remember which engine (BEW, CJAA, or BRM - all basically have the same process) it was I recently did where I had a helluva time trying to get the crank lock pin slid in. With the cam locked, I put a 19mm wrench on the crank bolt and was lightly pushing the wrench back and forth on the bolt head, and it just would. not. go. Then I stopped to take a breath and invent a couple new curse phrases, leaving the wrench just hanging on the bolt....and the suddenly the lock pin just slid right in.

That's when I decided, "close enough".

Started right up. No issues. Torsion value at +2.0.

Where in VCDS do you read the torsion value?

@roadlust Don’t despair! If the crank lock goes in and the cam lock doesn’t but your mirror shows that it really should, you’re close and probably just need to make a small adjustment.

 

[Nuje]

Engine module, Measuring Block 004, I think (?).

 

[ThomasCo]

Engine module, Measuring Block 004, I think (?).

Oh so it was a PD engine then. For CR engines I believe the value is called Idling Stabilization and mine reads -0.9KW

 

[Nuje]

Right. Sorry for my mis-remembering.