Jordan's 1996 B4V - BC, Canada

[starrd]

Going to tackle the IP pressure relief valve this weekend. I'm certainly hoping this is why the car falls on its face at ~3500rpm with a cloud of black smoke.

You might want to monitor your boost pressure - the RC3 chips runs to 18 psi boost and if you have a leak as the pressure rises it will cause smoke and power loss.

 

[JordanTr]

I was able to get the valve off the IP with no issues after zipping an old 3/8" socket and opening it up slightly. As you can see below, the roll pin was ~0.1" proud so back in it went and then I proceeded to snip and file a keystone. No drama there but unfortunately no real change in performance. It still does the fall flat and then smoke.





I had been searching for an alternative to the scan gauge now that I've gotten rid of the old BK ECU. I had trouble stomaching the price so I sprung for a $40 A203 unit and I'm pretty happy with it! It seems to perform all the functions well. I haven't had a chance to fully calibrate the fuelling but It ready pretty close to my average so I'm happy about that so far!



I took some logs before and after the valve repairs/mods to see what I could find. Not sure the best way to post so I made graphs of accelerations with different groups.

Per Don's recommendations, it looks like I need to chase some boost leak gremlins down since boost doesn't really achieve specified. At WOT, shouldn't "MAP SPECIFIED" be equal to ~18psi in mbar absolute with the RC3?
Is there anything else these logs are telling people?

 

[burpod]

You also want to take 004 log and monitor that what timing is doing

 

[burpod]

Also, there's way more to understanding boost logs than what you're thinking. Timing, fuel... voost. Ibtake air temps, coolant temps
It gets complicated. Everyone is quick to blame the easy "known" culprits when that is often not the case

 

[Steve Addy]

Also, there's way more to understanding boost logs than what you're thinking. Timing, fuel... voost. Ibtake air temps, coolant temps
It gets complicated. Everyone is quick to blame the easy "known" culprits when that is often not the case

Personally I pay the most attention to the voost....

Steve

 

[JordanTr]

As requested, here's a log of group 4 I took on the way home from work.

I read the entirety of the TDI timing Revisited thread https://forums.tdiclub.com/index.php?threads/tdi-timing-revisited.240450/ and tried to digest the majority of it.

From my logs I can deduce that:
1) during accelerations, actual timing meets spec
2) at idle, actual is more advanced than specified and duty cycle ~= 3% meaning pump is slightly physically advanced
3) Max advance is ~12*. Is this correct for the RC3 tune?

Please let me know if you seen anything more.

I haven't yet checked adaptation in group 4 on timing.




I found this old post from JGG on an old thread: https://forums.tdiclub.com/index.php?threads/1z-problem-enormous-amounts-of-black-smoke.263775/

Gives me some hope that maybe my injector swap will do me some good. The car starts kind of rough for the first few seconds too. Since the RC3 and IQ adjustments it does catch quick when starting though!

IMO I think what is happening through either just way too much fuel at a certain time or a combination of injectors popping at different times and the ECM's inability to adjust the timing to compensate for poorly balanced injectors, in other words too much fuel on certain injectors coupled with out of whack advance.

Either way, I used to get this if my car was cold and I gave it too much throttle. I'd really have to beat on it for this to happen, this was with RC3 and PP520's ( 1Z ).

What appears to happen is you are washing the rings and at least when this happened to me, I would literally have little or no compression, I would keep cranking it and eventually it would start to kick a little and finally I would get going, of course there would be a gigantic smoke cloud around me and I would hide out of embarrassment. Once this starts to happen and you let off the throttle, it was usually that misfire chugging feeling ( loss of 1 or 2 cylinders ) although as I wrote above, if really pushed I got into that all cylinder no compression scenario too. I never had much luck trying to drive through it, once it happens, shut it down and crank till you can get it running smoothly.

I can't get this to happen at all anymore, even if I try. I've had my injectors balanced professionally ( pilot and main phase ) since then.

Eh, hope that helps. Perhaps the reason why the ALH's don't get this might have something to do with the way the smooth running algorithm is applied within the ALH ( faster control loop ) and perhaps some kind of smoke map limits or something. It would take some logging under pretty harsh conditions to really figure it out, I personally don't want to beat on my 1Z that hard just to prove a point...

 

[JordanTr]

Bump. Any thoughts on the timing log?

After flogging on it doing logs, I got an intermittent 65535 “internal control module memory error”. Per recommendations from here, I opened the ECU and replaced the internal boost hose. I just used a piece of Tygon tubing since I had it kicking around.

Most recent fill was 5.6L/100km which isn’t great. Wondering if the lack of EGR has something to do with that. The tank prior was 5L/100.

 

[starrd]

Jordan, where abouts is your timing set at? You can use the VCDS timing chart to check it. The graph looks like this but this one is not for the 1Z engine.

 

[JordanTr]

Don, the timing is “within spec but advanced” and much less advanced than your picture shows. I’m just above the blue line. I do want to double check that the fuel temperature sensor is reading a reasonable number.

Been busy lately. Haven’t spent much time monkeying with things. I did manage to pick up a spare 1Z to build up though so I'm pretty excited about that!

 

[JordanTr]

I have been back and forth with a fellow in my home town that wrecked his 1Z B4V years ago but still had some spare parts. Finally I ended up back at home with time to visit him and see what he had available. I took everything for $200!

1z block honed and decked w/ proper spec OEM gaskets, rings, bearings, seals etc.
Some parts are even nicely painted!
Missing turbo, cam, injection pump
Modded TDI MFA cluster
Complete (ish??) Engine + chassis harness
Downpipe, air box, MAF etc.

My parents will bring it up later this summer when they come visit so I can work away on it over winter. It'll be nice to be able to mock up the GTC turbo and all those good bits without downtime on the car.

I've been researching the ALH piston upgrade but uncertain if it'd be possible to do given the fire ring zone that didn't quite get cleaned up with the hone. Would that present any problems?

I've never built an engine but I've wanted to for years. This will get the rebuilt AHU head that I got at the wreckers a while back.

 

[JordanTr]

This past weekend I finally got around to installing my injectors with 0.205 nozzles. All I can say is that I wish I did it sooner!!

The old injectors must have been in there a long time. It took about 40 strikes and wiggling to even get #2 inj to budge at all let alone be removed. I was a bit stressed but got it done! The blue smoky starts and half burnt diesel stench is gone. Most interestingly, I regained my top end! Before, if the revs would go above ~3500, regardless of loading, the car would die and fall on its face in a cloud of smoke. After fixing IQ, timing, keystone etc., this was the final piece of that puzzle!!

Boost is still low but I discovered that the turbo inlet line seal is toast and one of the mounts was loose so I think it's been gobbling dirty tramp air for a long time.
It has a new 3" intake now that's all sealed up!









Couple logs showing that she can pull to 4000rpm finally! Boost still low. Now that the exhaust is tuned up (next post), I can do a proper boost leak check. Haven't done it yet though.

Still have the IQ at 4.2 and timing slightly advanced.

 

[JordanTr]

Last weekend, I went in to replace the the old exhaust with the 2.5" SS one I've been picking away at. Once I cut the mid pipe, the suitcase muffler cracked the one remaining piece. Cleary it has been leaking copious amounts of exhaust for a while which helps explain the diesel smell in the cabin. I LOVE vband clamps. It makes things so easy to install. I ended up building off the spare downpipe I got with the engine since it was in much better condition. It's only 2" but this part is only temporary. It will get a new downpipe with the turbo upgrade this winter...
I like the OEM+ exhaust tip, but I wish it was tucked a little higher. The exhaust is about 1/2" clearance to the hitch cross bar so there isn't much I can do about it.

 

[Chungus]

Last weekend, I went in to replace the the old exhaust with the 2.5" SS one I've been picking away at. Once I cut the mid pipe, the suitcase muffler cracked the one remaining piece. Cleary it has been leaking copious amounts of exhaust for a while which helps explain the diesel smell in the cabin. I LOVE vband clamps. It makes things so easy to install. I ended up building off the spare downpipe I got with the engine since it was in much better condition. It's only 2" but this part is only temporary. It will get a new downpipe with the turbo upgrade this winter...
I like the OEM+ exhaust tip, but I wish it was tucked a little higher. The exhaust is about 1/2" clearance to the hitch cross bar so there isn't much I can do about it.

Man that exhaust is a thing of beauty. I'd make the drive from Vancouver if you ever wanted to replicate it haha

 

[starrd]

Nice to hear you got the rev problem/smoke sorted. If you want the mileage changed on your MFA cluster to match the mileage on your car let me know. Looking good! I just hammer modded my pump to 4.4/4.6 IQ - seems to have improved the mileage by 2-3 MPG

 

[JordanTr]

Man that exhaust is a thing of beauty. I'd make the drive from Vancouver if you ever wanted to replicate it haha

Aww thanks! It sure would look better on your clean car than mine! I've done car work for others and it really ruins the fun for me, unfortunately.

 

[JordanTr]

Nice to hear you got the rev problem/smoke sorted. If you want the mileage changed on your MFA cluster to match the mileage on your car let me know. Looking good! I just hammer modded my pump to 4.4/4.6 IQ - seems to have improved the mileage by 2-3 MPG

Thanks Don! I doubt I'll take you up on that though. By the time I get the MFA bits to make it work, the car will probably have ~430k kms which should match the cluster (if the sticky note is accurate)!
I need to track down the MFA signal stalk which the seller of the engine has but hasn't gotten back to me yet. Hopefully soon!

 

[JordanTr]

Well, after many months of lurking/searching/pondering I've found a future successor for the B4V. I found a clean C5 Allroad with the 2.7TT/6MT that needs a clutch in the province so there's no out of province inspection etc. I originally wanted to have a B6V successor but the Allroad is a much nicer vehicle and is hot dip galvanized so it should be less rust prone than the B6Vs. I was also stoked to find a monochrome Allroad instead of the typical tupperware versions where the plastics are different colors.

I'm trying to pile on the research and collect a few parts before I dive into the project. From the calculations I've done so far, a GVE code 3.89 6MT seems like a cost effective route to get close enough to the diesel ratios for my purposes. All the highways nearby are max 100km/h so the 80mph gearing isn't as beneficial most of the time.

There will be a fresh thread for the C5 but until then I'll keep driving the B4 and accruing savings for Audi parts!

Here she is. I haven't even seen it in person yet... Thanks papa for supporting my car addiction!

 

[d24tdi]

Right on, looks clean! I went a similar trajectory. B5/C5 platform is in a different universe from the old B4 in terms of assembly quality, refinement, etc. Doesn't have the simplicity of course and won't get the same mileage with the added weight/tire/driveline losses, but it's worth it.

What motor are you thinking of dropping in?

 

[JordanTr]

I’ve been in chats with @caffeine about his since he’s close to local with me. I’m leaning towards a phase 1 build with a BHW and maybe a second round with a BHW/ALH hybrid or BHW build with a GTDxxx. Lots of research etc to do for now. I think that getting it going as a stocker is a prudent first step.

Have you worked on your swap at all or been driving your v6 goon?

 

[d24tdi]

Nice. Yeah getting something running in stock-ish form certainly helps for resolving issues. That is my plan as well. I'm going with the 2.5L V6 in my allroad as you might remember. Haven't started on that project yet, trying to drive the V6 Passat a little to get a feel for the drivetrain, but it needs the valvetrain checked out so need to do that first. Winter projects for when the snow starts to fly, any day now. Until then I'm using the few remaining days/weeks to do outdoor projects before they get locked in a snow bank until next May.

Whichever way you go, bet it will be great!

 

[HardToHandle]

This past weekend I finally got around to installing my injectors with 0.205 nozzles. All I can say is that I wish I did it sooner!!

The old injectors must have been in there a long time. It took about 40 strikes and wiggling to even get #2 inj to budge at all let alone be removed. I was a bit stressed but got it done! The blue smoky starts and half burnt diesel stench is gone. Most interestingly, I regained my top end! Before, if the revs would go above ~3500, regardless of loading, the car would die and fall on its face in a cloud of smoke. After fixing IQ, timing, keystone etc., this was the final piece of that puzzle!!

Boost is still low but I discovered that the turbo inlet line seal is toast and one of the mounts was loose so I think it's been gobbling dirty tramp air for a long time.
It has a new 3" intake now that's all sealed up!









Couple logs showing that she can pull to 4000rpm finally! Boost still low. Now that the exhaust is tuned up (next post), I can do a proper boost leak check. Haven't done it yet though.

Still have the IQ at 4.2 and timing slightly advanced.

I really dig that intake hose! Where did you get those silicon elbows/couplers from and what size are they? I have wanted to make a turbo inlet for mine- I swear each time I have to touch the original one something breaks off of it

Maybe this will help motivate me to get mine back on the road. Its been sitting while I build up the money, time, and motivation to gets its bugs sorted out

 

[JordanTr]

I got the silicone couplers off AliExpress. It’s a 51-76mm 90* elbow and a 3” 45* elbow. A few pie cuts in between. The 51mm squishes down well to grab the turbo inlet and it’s under vac anyways.
Hoping to maybe still do a turbo upgrade so at that point I’ll probably do away with the 45 at some point. It’s a little snug in there.
Good luck!

 

[JordanTr]

Recently, I've put my nice round/balanced winter tires back on and it's such a relief to have a smooth ride again. I tried to scrub the remainder of the old winters off the rusty steelies this summer. I finished painting and stickering my 3D printed center caps so they really help improve the winter mode look as well.

3D caps

I put the 02J shifter assembly in the car a while back and took the opportunity to change the transmission oil. I put Pennzoil Synchromesh back in there and have been plenty happy with the shifting as there was no issues before either. I've done MT90 in other vehicles but always found them notchy.
All in all, I'm not sure I'd do the shifter mod again. I don't think my stock shifter was as worn out as some so there wasn't an earth shattering difference.

The car has gotten more shuddery in the 1600-2000rpm range and generally rougher over the past few months. I did install used 0.205 injectors in the summer. In hindsight, I really should have spent a little extra money and gotten new or serviced injectors to know what I have.
I did verify IQ at 4.1 and logged group 013 on my way home from work yesterday (30 minutes).
Here are the results:
58% of the time deviation was 1.4-1.5 mg/str
23% of the time deviation was 1.6-1.7 mg/str
9% of the time deviation was 1.3-1.4 mg/str
1% of the time deviation was < 1.1 mg/str
The worst reported was 1.84 mg/str

A picture I have from when the injectors first were installed, albeit used, has the group 013 readings at +0.47, -0.28, +0.38 so I think things have degraded.

I have yet to do some further troubleshooting on them.
I doubt that I have a fuel filter issue as I avoid the sketchy fuel stations and this filter has only done ~20K miles.

Apart from the odd shudder and the diesel smoke (presumably from poor injectors as evidenced by smoky idle and poor balance) as well as low boost when driving from worn compressor, I'm quite happy with the car.

I'll have it off the road soon here for snowmobiling season so I need to buckle down and get the spare engine rebuild completed, headwork done, 11mm pump, clutch, injectors, adapter for turbo, and then I'll be in business to get it all set up for a 'pod tune once and for all.
I already have front and rear hubs/bearings to do at some point this winter as well.

My spreadsheet says that the TDI has made me money after all the costs so far so we might as well dive the curve back down into the negatives again! I really want this car tuned up and reliable before I go down the rabbit hole of doing the BHW Allroad...The Allroad will be getting its own thread in the near future here too.

 

[starrd]

Those 3d printed center caps look great.
I just had Franko6 do a set of injectors for my son's ALH golf. Should be getting them back via USPS on Tuesday. He installed new DSLA 520 nozzles, balanced, flow tested and shipped with new copper sealing washers, return line and injector plug for a very reasonable price. He checked my old injectors before he started and said the first stage pop pressure was down at 170 bar - they had about 450,000 kms on them. Can't wait to see what the balance looks like once they are installed. He did the pp357's I ran on my old Passat but that was before he started with his new method. I also have a set of the T4 injectors he was selling 10 years ago ready to go (not yet used) - he suggested I send them back for recalibration using his current method. Will also be interesting to see if the mileage improves on my son's car - it should.

 

[JordanTr]

I drove the car through the past winter and have just about 30,000kms on it now over my 2 years of ownership. Last week I committed to replacing the rear brake rotors and pads (did the mk4 calipers only after a couple weeks 2 years ago). After wearing down the pads to metal, it was time to tackle the rusted up SHCS on the caliper carriers. Fortunately enough, I was able to get 2 of the 4 removed. The other 2 came out after using rounded bolt extractors on the heads. I cleaned up the mk4 calipers and brackets and tossed some paint on them. I can't believe how nice the brakes are now because all the rotors were terribly rusted when I first got the car.



After the brake job, the 3 piece 16" summers went on again which is a great feeling! 195/55/16 is ~1" taller than stock for some lower rpm cruising.

More driving = more payback for Allroad project

 

[JordanTr]

Ever since installing the GQ/RC3 ECU, I've had an intermittent MIL on the dash. Sometimes bright, sometimes faint, and sometimes intermittent. I've pulled codes a few times and get the 00309 code which alludes to 5th injector issues. Sometimes I've logged a G20 cat temp sensor error too.

With the help of This 00309 thread, I've ordered a pair of 240 ohm resistors and a 10 ohm/10W resistor. Hopefully, I'll be able to clear up the codes with the addition of those!

 

[JordanTr]

Happy to report that the resistors have done the trick and it’s a little strange to not have to watch the engine light brighten and wane depending on driving conditions.

The last 2 weeks have been busy… the first weekend I brought a V6 TDI down to @d24tdi in Montana and liberated him of his green B4V we’d been discussing for nearly a year and a half. That was a long 12hr day of driving.
Last weekend, an old member on here, @gbaerg, listed his California imported storm grey B4V so, naturally, it wanted to live with its friends so it came home to my parents near Vancouver.

Here’s a picture from 10 years ago but it still looks pretty nice today. It’s been upgraded to leather interior which is pretty nice!

 

[JordanTr]

The adventures of Stormy can be followed here: https://forums.tdiclub.com/index.php?threads/stormy-the-b4v.534843/

Until recently, I’ve just been collecting miles on this one.

I learned a painful lesson this week on just how useless these cars are when they lose prime. Discovered a no start condition when we returned to the car at the park and jet after being away for 8 days (and after 13 hours of planes, trains, and busses). The bottom of the IP was wet and there was a puddle on the ground. Since we were 250 miles from home still, I hailed an Uber and got a few useful tools (vac bleeder etc) but the leak was bad enough that I couldn’t pull enough vacuum to get fuel into it. Took a rental car home, had a short sleep, got a dolly for the truck, dollied the rental back since 1 way rental was not an option, picked up the car, and returned home after another 12hr travel day.

The worst part of all of this was that I squashed the little voice in my head that said maybe it wasn’t a good idea to take the car with the IP in this state. It never stumbled or had a hard start previously so I thought I still had some time before doing the seals since it was just a tiny bit wet on the bottom. Guess not!
I know what I’m getting up to later this week…

Tore into the car today and pulled the pump to do the head seal. I have big mitts and had good cause to do the timing belt (8 years and 60k kms) so I figured I’d save some cursing and just pull it. Bench tested the pump and it holds vacuum now so I can proceed with reassembly tomorrow. I’m still learning things so I can’t complain. A timing belt job makes a lot of sense now that I’m elbows deep into it.

https://flic.kr/p/2qewQae

 

[d24tdi]

Nice. Hate the ones where it drains out all the way back to the tank and just can't pull it back up. Had that happen on a Volvo 760 TD one time years ago that was parallel parked on the street facing uphill for a week while I was away, no way to get the car out without major effort. After sitting for a while the whole fuel system was bone dry. The slope made the problem even worse of course. I had to install an electric booster pump ahead of the fuel filter to be able to get it going and out of there. In a pinch I have also had a manual primer bulb (like for outboard boat motor) work OK to get something going that was in this situation. Only can get so far with almost 30yo IP seals I guess!

Nothing a B4 likes better than piling on the miles/km right?

 

[Steve Addy]

Ever since installing the GQ/RC3 ECU, I've had an intermittent MIL on the dash. Sometimes bright, sometimes faint, and sometimes intermittent. I've pulled codes a few times and get the 00309 code which alludes to 5th injector issues. Sometimes I've logged a G20 cat temp sensor error too.

With the help of This 00309 thread, I've ordered a pair of 240 ohm resistors and a 10 ohm/10W resistor. Hopefully, I'll be able to clear up the codes with the addition of those!

I would have thought that all that stuff (5th inj, cat temp sensors) would have been deleted in the RC3 tune....

Steve