jhax's Built ALH into a MK2 Golf thread

[jhax]

http://pics.tdiclub.com/data/517/Golf_4.pdf I found a pinout for sensors on the intewebs and uploaded the PDF on the site. Makes it a little easier to visualize.

Cheers,
Justin

 

[jhax]

Good Evening All,

I have a question regarding the Relay 109. The CE2 system shows a 2.5ga wire coming from G1/10 and on to the other wires (unfused) for power. The ALH has a 4ga wire for the 109 relay (all fused). Would I be safe using the stock CE2 configuration or would that cause problems?

 

[Digital Corpus]

I don't not know the current load of the ECU and associated electronics, but if the length of wire differs to where your 4 AWG is significantly shorter, the voltage drop will be about the same.

 

[jhax]

So keep the 4ga as short as possible. Got it. Thank you sir. I forgot how much fun wiring was since my last swap/

 

[jhax]

My next conundrum is Glow Plug wiring. I have been doing a lot of reading on the various different ways to do it. I would very much like to retain the glow plug system that is already integrated in the CE2 fuse box....I literally just got glanced at a wiring diagram and I think it may be much easier than I thought it would be. Since I am using an 03 Jetta ECU which uses a feed back loop to ECU pins 33 and 9. Is it possible to just leave those pins unplugged and call it good? It seems like that would be something that can be tuned out if a DTC is thrown.

 

[Hasenwerk]

My next conundrum is Glow Plug wiring. I have been doing a lot of reading on the various different ways to do it. I would very much like to retain the glow plug system that is already integrated in the CE2 fuse box....I literally just got glanced at a wiring diagram and I think it may be much easier than I thought it would be. Since I am using an 03 Jetta ECU which uses a feed back loop to ECU pins 33 and 9. Is it possible to just leave those pins unplugged and call it good? It seems like that would be something that can be tuned out if a DTC is thrown.

The ALH has three versions.

1997-1999 with the 80 pin ECU and "two wire" glow plug relay
2000-2001 with the 121 pin ECU and "two wire" glow plug relay
2002-2003 with the 121 pin ECU and "four wire" glow plug relay

The 02/03 GP relay is a "smart" relay that passes information back to the ECU about each glow plug. This relay can't be substituted with an old style relay as the ECU simply won't operate the old relay. However, you can back date the software on the 02/03 ALH to the 00/01 software and then a generic relay can be used. It will still throw a DTC but the relay will work. This DTC can be turned off by any decent chip tuning company.

 

[jhax]

Okay so it's just a matter of sw and I can remove the "smart glow plug" from the system.

 

[jhax]

When the ECU SW is flashed to the old style SW, does that change the pinouts too? Or were the pinouts the same for both ECU types (eg pin 1 on 01ECU = power, and pin 1 on 03ECU is also power)?

 

[jhax]

More GP questions!

It seems like there is a ECU feedback loop from the old style GP to the ECU as explained here. Essentially with the 80 pin ECU...

Relay pin ST - ECM to relay. ECM uses this wire to activate the relay when specified conditions are met where the glow plugs are to be on. 5v signal. White/purple wire. ECM pin T80/42.

Relay pin D1 - 5v signal back to ECM when ST pin is powered. This circuit provides feedback to the ECM that includes fault checking. Green wire. ECM pin T80/37

This can also be seen here on tracks 60 and 64 (96 jetta) and the GP light part of it here track 62 on a early ALH.

So my questions are these.

Which pins are which for the 121 pin ECU? Based on the 03 Jetta (tracks 19 and 20) and from what I assume is an earlier than 03 golf based on pin differences, specifically ECU pin 42 (older golf) and ECU pin 9 (newer jetta).

In the earlier ALH diagram pin 41 goes to the GP light which I believe would equate to g2/5 in the AHU diagram. Both later diagrams show pin 41 as empty HOWEVER, pin 40 in both diagrams HAPPENS to be bl/gn. Since the newer ALHs use CAN bus for GP signal, do you think it would be an accurate assumption that the GP light on the later ALH ECUs can come from pin 40? If not which wire in the newer ALH is the feed forward ECU to GPR (D1:G1/3) and feedback GPR +5V/Glow Plug Light (ST:G2/5)?

 

[Hasenwerk]

More GP questions!

It seems like there is a ECU feedback loop from the old style GP to the ECU as explained here. Essentially with the 80 pin ECU...



This can also be seen here on tracks 60 and 64 (96 jetta) and the GP light part of it here track 62 on a early ALH.

So my questions are these.

Which pins are which for the 121 pin ECU? Based on the 03 Jetta (tracks 19 and 20) and from what I assume is an earlier than 03 golf based on pin differences, specifically ECU pin 42 (older golf) and ECU pin 9 (newer jetta).

In the earlier ALH diagram pin 41 goes to the GP light which I believe would equate to g2/5 in the AHU diagram. Both later diagrams show pin 41 as empty HOWEVER, pin 40 in both diagrams HAPPENS to be bl/gn. Since the newer ALHs use CAN bus for GP signal, do you think it would be an accurate assumption that the GP light on the later ALH ECUs can come from pin 40? If not which wire in the newer ALH is the feed forward ECU to GPR (D1:G1/3) and feedback GPR +5V/Glow Plug Light (ST:G2/5)?

There are differences between 00/01 and 02/03 in the wiring diagram the MAP sensor for example is different. The 00/01 has a loop back and a trigger wire for the GP relay. All that is needed is the trigger wire and turn off the DTCs for the missing loop back. All ALH ECUs have K29 and K83 outputs - same pins for mid and late ECUs. Both also do K29 and K83 over CAN as well, so the CAN2DASH unit I sell works for all EDC15 ECUs and it capable of driving a 5W lights or LEDs correctly if that's what you are looking at doing. It also has a tachometer output that is directly compatible with the MK2 coil based tachometer as well - just so that you can keep you options open!

 

[jhax]

I appreciate it, I am hoping to get rid of CAN all together. I guess I am ultimately trying to figure out which wires from the 03 121 pin ECU plug into G1/3 and G2/5 in the CE2 box. The glow plug light output (U1/8) is already linked with the G2/5 ECU wire inside the fuse box. So wire from ECU 33 goes to which plug and ECU 9 (03) or 42 (01/02) goes to which plug? Sorry that last message was long and complicated.

 

[jhax]

Back into it. It looks like the original Tachometer input (from ECU) in the 2003 wiring diagram (track 98 to track 161) goes to T32a/6 on the mk4 cluster. CE2 shows the input from the ECU going into G1/12 and then coming out of the fuse box at U1/06.

 

[MrDave]

Okay so it's just a matter of sw and I can remove the "smart glow plug" from the system.

Hi Justin.

Good to hear that things are moving along.

You can also expand your thinking a little.

I'm running a 2002 ALH ECU, which should be the 4 wire glow plug relay.
However, I had the ECU flashed for the ASV European code (practically identical to the ALH, but 110hp).

It fires the glow plug relay off of a different pin, and doesn't require feedback from the relay to check on the glow plugs.

As a result, I'm running a cheap #100 relay to fire the glow plugs.


So for your CE2 swap, you could probably run either the mk2 glow plug system, or a dumb later system, provided you used a euro ECU.


-Dave

 

[jhax]

Dave, that's what I was thinking after reading your thread. I spoke with a tuner after reading David's comment and he said the following,

"00-01 is immo 2 and 02-03 is immo 3. The ECU's are physically different. It will run with the older software, but it will be angry about it."

However, since I am not running an IMMO period that shouldn't matter. I also asked him about "reflashing" to 99-01 SW and not ASV SW. When you say it fires the GP relay off a different pin, are you referring to the ST (control/diag)pin or the D (switch power) pin? If so I assume you physically rewired the ECU pinout so the ASV Reflashed ECU would properly operate the glow plugs.

Did you choose ASV so you could use the MK2/MK3 instrument cluster. Or since you used a #100 relay that probably allowed you to keep the MK1 cluster. I know for a fact that the CE2 instrument cluster glow plug light is tied directly into pin 9 of the glow plug relay via U1/8 at the back of the fuse box.

I would like to be able to not have to worry about the CAN wires that operate the GP and MIL lights at all.

Apologies for the long post.

 

[MrDave]

I wanted the ASV because I wanted the Euro tune with the Euro maps. The engine drives differently than the US maps.

When I say "fires off of a different pin", a different pin goes to ground to make the GP relay operate. I also added in my own momentary switch so I can manually operate the glow plugs.

When I got the ASV flash, my glow plugs didn't work.
1. wrong ECU pin
2. ECU didn't operate the smart relay
Jeff at Rocketchip has since figured out the glow plug/ASV thing.

At the time I did my swap, eliminating the IMMO wasn't yet an option, nobody had figured that system out yet. This means I'm using the mk4 cluster in my mk1 dash, and I'm running the full IMMO3 system. All the lights work, the CANBus gateway has been coded to eliminate missing equipment. I do have a DTC for missing ABS and Airbags, but it's not an issue shown on the dash, only during a scan.

-Dave

 

[jhax]

Aha, yeah, I am attempting to wire up the '03 ECU and '03 wiring harness to work with the MK3 TDI instrument cluster. The mk3 cluster grabs the MIL light signal from AHU ECU pin 80 and it grabs the Glow Plug Light from Relay pin 9, the glow plug light shares the pin with the wire that goes to AHU ECU pin 48. And the 03 ALH cluster grabs both signals from the CAN Hi and CAN Lo wires from ECU pins 6 and 7. Would you happen to have an ASV wiring diagram I can look at? How does the engine drive differently?

 

[MrDave]

PM contact info and I can send you an ASV diagram.
It covers the euro ALH as well.

I have a stage 3 Rocketchip with ASV coding in my Rabbit,
and stage 3 Malone with ALH coding in my mk4 J.

The ASV is much more responsive, the ALH needs a lot more pedal for things to get interesting.

-Dave

 

[jhax]

Message sent. I would much rather be able to use my current hardware, ECU, harness and mk3 cluster and get rid of the CAN wires and "re pin" (you may have to help me on this) the glow plug? ecu? successfully.

Thank you Dave!

 

[jhax]

I think I knw what you mean when you say different ground. The 03 shows T121/1 as the 109 relay ground wire that you mention, with the ASV reflash, the same wire will go to a different pin on the ECU.

 

[jimbote]

there are pins on the 121 ecm that feed tach, cel, glow independent of the CAN system

 

[jhax]

Yeah? I was hoping someone would chime in and say that. I had a feeling there may be. Would you happen to know which pins by chance? I would be quite grateful.

 

[jhax]

AHA! http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=353083 this what you are referring to?

 

[jhax]

MUAHAHA! http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=3311349&postcount=121 tach! Funny thing is the same wire/pinout shows up on the ASV engine wiring diagram, denoted by a * - Engine speed signal from engine control unit. Looks like those across the pond even got better diagrams than we did here.

 

[jhax]

And thank you to Jimbote again, here is the pin for the GP in the (02-03) Jetta/Golf Harness. http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=296888. Did the ALH ever come with a ground wire going from the head to the instrument cluster or did it get all of it's cluster grounds from the lug under the driver's side B pillar?

 

[jhax]

Just posted this thread in the MK4 forums requesting if pin 24 in the Euro ASV and ALH ECUs is the same as ours out here.

 

[jimbote]

i think the late 121 ecm's did not have have an active vestigial glow pin ... don't let that stop you from trying though ... it may work

 

[jhax]

If Im correct the 02 and 03 ECUs with the 4 wire glow plugs are the same, at least it seems that way based on what I gather from MrDave.

 

[jhax]

I am looking for a sanity check here. I am looking at the "ECU Power" wire, from ECU pin 37 (track 34) in the ALH diagram. And I want to place it into the CE2 fuse box at socket G2/04 which would take care of the fuse by placing it within the fuse box (position 15). This is kosher correct? It would relieve me of fuse 29 in the ALH diagram.

Thanks!

 

[jimbote]

If Im correct the 02 and 03 ECUs with the 4 wire glow plugs are the same, at least it seems that way based on what I gather from MrDave.

Edit: so i was incorrect it was the CEL pin that may be non-funtional in the later 121 ecm's
http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=4805295&postcount=9

 

[jhax]

What year is the ecu in your truck? I do have an 02 ecu I can use.