Jetta TDI won't start - tried it all already?

[UhOh]

One other thing, VERY easy to check: ASV!

And, a question: intake cleaned?

 

[scareykari]

Thanks UhOh for the input on the rpm. We'll stop looking at the starter for now. I think our next course of action is to try to get spray with the plugs out. We'll check the solenoid and injector 3 as well. I think we'll probably pull off the timing belt and just be sure everything is lined up proper. Hopefully this weekend we can get to all of this extra testing before dumping a grand into a new pump.

Yes, by the way. We did check the anti shudder valve first thing. It moves easily by hand and isn't sticking at all. We cleaned all that intake mess out very first thing. It was dirty inside, but not clogged at all.

 

[whitedog]

There is no need to pull the timing belt to check that everything is lined up. Just set the mark on the flywheel, check the cam and check the injection pump.

 

[scareykari]

Thanks, whitedog. That timing belt was a big job. While we were at it, we noticed that the engine mount was torn. Getting that thing off and replaced was a tight fit. Glad to not have to do that again! The timing belt cover is what I should have said. Now that I am thinking about it, it's still off. We hadn't gotten around to putting it back on yet. I know it was all lined up when we put the new belt on, but I'm still concerned about that clicking noise. This video kind of shows an example of what we heard.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DqqpNrhYOoU

Not our video, obviously, but looks and sounds similar to what we got when we turned it.

 

[UhOh]

Like this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uRbaTdg8AE

Seems you could narrow it down via stethoscope.

 

[scareykari]

I can't really tell because my car won't start

We pulled the plugs out and did not get fuel. There were black smudges on the paper towels we put over the holes, but no fuel and just a burn smell. Could still be pump, injectors, or timing? I guess we're not all that much closer to solving this than when we started. We're going to fiddle with the timing some more and check the ohms at injector 3.

 

[SkyRyder55]

If you have no fuel coming out of injection lines it is not a timing issue. At least not yet.
And if you cracked the lines before injectors then the injectors are not the cause.
Is your wire attached at the fuel cut off solenoid? Is it functioning properly?

 

[UhOh]

Check that you're getting power to the fuel shutoff solenoid!

 

[scareykari]

We got 12 volts from the fuel shutoff solenoid to ground, and a little over 11 volts between the solenoid switch and ground. I was hoping we were on to something.

Additionally, I held a hammer up to the injection pump while he turned it manually and the click is definitely coming from there. I could feel the vibration through the hammer and it was super loud. Something is for sure banging in that pump.

We tried advancing the fuel pump timing and no real change at all. Throwing in the towel for tonight, but thanks again for the suggestions.

 

[whitedog]

With that noise narrowed down to the pump, it is time to look into warranty on the pump. Talk to the pump supplier and tell them your findings being sure to mention the clicking in the pump. They may allow you to pull the top off of the pump to inspect it to be sure what has happened.

But start with a conversation with the pump supplier.

 

[UhOh]

Sigh, sounds like the IP is flat-out crapped out.

https://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=409860

 

[scareykari]

It's been 2-3 years since the Bosch pump we have in there was installed. I just got off the phone with the shop that did it, they warranty 12k or 1 year, they don't have records, computer crash, blah blah. They wouldn't even tell me who they got the pump from so I can avoid that same supplier. After this call, I'll go out of my way to never do business with them again.

We're now deciding to pay the $950 or so for a rebuild from boraparts, or triplet, or to pay the $1500 for a VW pump from the dealer. Either way, I think at this point we're sure we need a new pump. Maybe even send the injectors out, if the pump has been knocking like that for a while, there could be all sorts of tiny metal bits floating around in the system.

Thanks again to everyone who helped out. Hopefully after a bit of saving we'll have a new pump and we can at least get her started. Then the real fun begins in diagnosing all the other little problems this neglected little car has got.

 

[whitedog]

You may ask Aaron at Bora, but I know he gets his pumps rebuilt at DFIS and I believe that the dealer gets their reman pumps from DFIS.

 

[scareykari]

Just talked to DFIS, I think we might go through them as they can do it all in one shop. Funny he said the same thing, the dealer gets pumps from them and they're all Bosch. I talked to the local VW parts department, they said they wouldn't take back my Bosch pump in exchange for a "genuine VW pump." Conflicting stories, but whatever.

 

[whitedog]

Conflicting story? just follow the money.

 

[UhOh]

OP, look up Frans:

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=434593

If Andrew endorses Frans then I have full confidence that Frans IS good: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showpost.php?p=4838437&postcount=33

 

[runonbeer]

<--scareykari's husband

So we tried adjusting the IQ via the hammer mod, I made a triangular-bolt socket out of one of my 7mm sockets and a dremel, I loosened the QA housing, we tapped it left about 0.01~1/16", tried starting and reading the 015 engine group IQ and didn't get anything less than 28mg/str. We tapped it right about the same, tried starting and didn't get anything less than 28mg/str. It cranks at about 400-500 rpm and it doesn't seem like any of the cylinders are firing. Am I moving the QA too much? Should there be a much smaller adjustment?

On one of the attempted starts we did get five faults (I am assuming these are related to going to far one way or the other):

17762 - Modulating Piston Movement Sensor (G149)
P1354 - 35-00 - Electrical Malfunction
17571 - Fuel Temp Sensor (G81)
P1163 - 35-00 - Open or Short to Plus
16764 - Glow Plug/Heater (Q6) Circuit
P0380 - 35-10 - Malfunction - Intermittent
17970 - Quantity Adjuster (N146)
P1562 - 35-00 - Upper Limit Reached
17660 - Commencement of Injection Valve (N108)
P1252 - 35-10 - Open or Short to Ground - Intermittent

We cleared them and they didn't return.

We've also tried checking the default values for QA in Vagcom, to make sure I didn't accidentally reset the defaults to some unreasonable level. They haven't been changed...

When I pulled the glowplugs for our compression test there was damp fuel on every plug, so I am assuming each cylinder is getting fuel. We're at a loss at this point and getting frustrated, any new ideas would be greatly appreciated.

This looks to me like a 10pin connector that is t seated fully.

 

[whitedog]

Robby, they cleared them and they didn't come back.

 

[runonbeer]

Saw that, but why did they pop up in the first place. Certainly not from bumping the QA around.

Have a look at MB019 key on, fully charged battery

 

[runonbeer]

Could also be that the rebuilder set the main hub on the shaft a little off. I think some timing tweaks are in order but I saw a picture showing the hub slammed up to full advance? Is that still the case?

If I had it I'd retime the motor with the pump hub bolts centralized in the pulley slots and try small incremental timing advance adjustments until...

 

[whitedog]

Saw that, but why did they pop up in the first place. Certainly not from bumping the QA around.

Have a look at MB019 key on, fully charged battery

My guess on why they popped up was they unhooked the harness when doing the compression test.

I haven't heard otherwise. <shrug>

 

[runonbeer]

It would take 2 seconds to check.

 

[whitedog]

True. intermittent connections are the Suxor.

 

[scareykari]

Yeah, the codes popped up when we did the compression test, we had stuff unplugged for that. No codes have come back since then.


You're right about the hub being on full advance. We did try moving it to the middle and several other places in between and got no change in starting condition at all. We are going to try with a different injection pump and get the injectors checked out. Hopefully in a couple of weeks we'll have a whole new set of problems.

 

[whitedog]

Get a pin on that pump before throwing a pump on it. It doesn't take much movement on the pump for it be far enough out to not start. The start window is very narrow.

 

[scareykari]

I'm not sure I'm picking up what you're throwing down, whitedog. You mean put the pin in the new pump before we put it in? That sounds logical.

As for the old pump, yeah, we had the pin in, all lined up perfectly, no start. We advanced it, retarded it, no start. No matter what we tried, no start.. and still that clicking inside the pump. Once we get our new pump in, we're going to pull the old one apart and study it's guts. Maybe we will learn something.

 

[whitedog]

I meant that you should set it all to TDC and pin the pump (in the correct hole, not the sucker hole) and try it. But I had forgotten about the clicking noise.

Get the pump and drive off happy.

 

[scareykari]

Thanks, pump is in the mail. Sent the injectors out for checking just to ease hubby's mind. Once we get it all back, I'm hoping for a smooth start. Any tricks to putting in the new pump? I haven't researched yet, but I'm hoping it isn't rocket surgery. Maybe something we can do in an afternoon over beers and chips, but that never turns out to be the case with this car.

 

[SkyRyder55]

Pump change is easy since you are familiar with timing belt change. Get the belt off after engine is locked at tdc. 4 bolts and pump is off. And injector lines and electrical connection.
Put back in reverse order.
Make sure you prime the pump with vac pump before starting. And bleed injector lines before starting as well. Fingers crossed and she fires up. Time it and have a beer.

 

[scareykari]

New pump installed and she started right up! Still have some issues to work through, but I'm hoping it's all downhill from here. Thanks to all who helped out. Special thanks to SkyRyder55 for the great deal on the pump, and to Frank06 for a quick turnaround on the injectors.