Jetta Diesel vs. Jetta Gas reliability...

[sasilverbullet]

Yes, I know this is a TDI forum...
I have a 03 Jetta and 02 Beetle, both are TDI's. Have had them for many years and I'm very familiar with the ups/downs of the cars.
I'm contemplating getting another Jetta for the wife and I'm looking at the gas engine ones. Reason is because there is only one place here in San Antonio that knows how to work on these engines - and they are far, far from my house and not cheap. So I'm looking to get something that normal shops know how to work on and won't screw it up!
Yes, I know the TDI's get super mileage - don't care, I like the 04 to 09 Jettas looks and the way it rides/handles.
So here's the questions on the gas engine Jettas from - 04 to 09:
(assuming well maintained)
1. How many miles can I expect out of the 1.8t?
2. How many miles can I expect out of the 5 cylinder?
3. What are the big things that go wrong with them?
4. Recommendations on what to look for on these engines on a used car?
Thanks all!

 

[Lensdude_com]

If I was devoted to the VW brand then my next new car would be a Jetta 1.8T Gas Engine with 6sp Manual Transmission...
I wouldn't doubt there's some collusion between the EPA and USAuto to impede TDI sales because it worked...and with it the myth of German Engineering.

 

[TDI2000Zim]

The 2014 Jetta 5 cylinder engine is a gas hog, even though it drives nice.

While the 2014 Jetta 1.8L Turbo almost produces the same mpg as a TDi in theory, and with REGULAR GAS.

The only thing that could worry anyone is that as a new VW model in the USA, it may yet have its own problems.

 

[oilhammer]

You need to clarify your question.

"2004-2009 Jetta" covers two VERY different cars... as in, they not only don't look at all alike, they ride on two totally different platforms and share virtually no parts at all.

The A4 Jetta got a 1.8t engine, the A5 Jetta got a 2.5L 5cyl (both had several versions over the years, and are not all the same). The 1.8t engine was an optional engine in the A4, the 2.5L engine was the base engine in the A5. The base engine in the A4 was a 2.0L SOHC, and the optional engine in the A5 was a 2.0t (in the GLI only).

They are all decent engines, but if the place you take it too is frightened of the ALH, then you can cross off any of the 1.8t and 2.5L engines, as those are far more complex than any ALH could hope to be. I think you probably just need to find a different place for service myself.

By far the most reliable, because it is SIMPLE, is the 2.0L SOHC engine. Available in the A4, and then again in the new NCS (2011+) Jetta. Not particularly good at power, or fuel economy, but it is extremely simple and sturdy.

However, you also made no mention of transmission. While most all VAG manuals are fine, some of the automatics can be anywhere from a minor annoyance to a disaster waiting to happen... and the cars we are talking about here could have any one of FOUR totally different automatic transmissions.

 

[sasilverbullet]

You need to clarify your question.

Thanks, this is the kind of detailed response I was hoping for.

"2004-2009 Jetta" covers two VERY different cars... as in, they not only don't look at all alike, they ride on two totally different platforms and share virtually no parts at all.
The A4 Jetta got a 1.8t engine, the A5 Jetta got a 2.5L 5cyl (both had several versions over the years, and are not all the same). The 1.8t engine was an optional engine in the A4, the 2.5L engine was the base engine in the A5. The base engine in the A4 was a 2.0L SOHC, and the optional engine in the A5 was a 2.0t (in the GLI only).
They are all decent engines, but if the place you take it too is frightened of the ALH, then you can cross off any of the 1.8t and 2.5L engines, as those are far more complex than any ALH could hope to be.

Really, MORE complex? The ALH is a chore to replace the timing belt - and the fuel injection pump is not fun either. The gas engines are worse? Hm, maybe I need to steer clear of VW's from now on. The technical ability of the mechanics at the two dealerships here in San Antonio is seriously lacking, or is that the same all over America?

I think you probably just need to find a different place for service myself.
By far the most reliable, because it is SIMPLE, is the 2.0L SOHC engine. Available in the A4, and then again in the new NCS (2011+) Jetta. Not particularly good at power, or fuel economy, but it is extremely simple and sturdy.
However, you also made no mention of transmission. While most all VAG manuals are fine, some of the automatics can be anywhere from a minor annoyance to a disaster waiting to happen... and the cars we are talking about here could have any one of FOUR totally different automatic transmissions.

Yes, fully aware of all the auto trans woes...

To clarify - for reliability and simple to work on, which if any Jetta enging/trans combination would you pick?

Thanks for the detailed response, many things to consider now.

 

[jessabug]

I'd look into a 2.0 with a 5-speed manual. I had one for 6 1/2 years and it was a great combination. No turbo to worry about, maintenance is cheap, takes regular gas, not as picky on oil, etc. I had one in a New Beetle, so it was a bit cramped to work on, but all of the engines are. I imagine in a Jetta it would be pretty easy to work on. Now, it wasn't very fast, but it was peppy enough. I really didn't have to put much into it while I owned it. Basic maintenance of course - timing belt, brakes, tires, oil changes, etc. I had an O2 sensor fail soon after I got the car, and the cat failed at 91k, but other than that it was pretty problem free. I owned it from 54k to 102k and it was a great car. I used it to get me through college.

I have a 1.8T GTI now. I love it. Much quicker for sure! But Its definitely a different beast.

 

[oilhammer]

Well first, if someone thinks the ALH's timing belt is "a chore", they clearly have not replaced many timing belts. While it can be a bit time consuming, and given the number of parts replaced can be costly, it is actually a pretty easy job to do provided you are doing it properly with the proper tools. Do the same job on a twin-cam Mitsubishi V6 stuffed in a Kia Sedona or a twin-cam ChryCo 4cyl stuffed in a Mitsubishi Eclipse or a VVT Toyota V8 and you'll quickly see how docile the ALH is.

As far as reliability and easy to work on, the ALH is probably only beaten by the SOHC 2.0L engines. But even those have some items that the ALH doesn't, like a monitored catalyst, evaporative emissions control, and (in some cases) secondary air injection. All of which can be common sources of trouble on the 2.0L. Of course, with the exception of some of the later NB 'verts, all the 2.0Ls got bolted to the 01M as the 2-pedal option, so any other problems that could crop up will seem like a non-issue when the trans tooefs itself.

The 1.8t engines (again, there are a few) adds in the complexity of a variable cam phasing system and a chain that is expensive and fragile, and the turbocharger which in itself isn't too much trouble but the world's most overly complex intake and breather system that goes along with it certainly is. Good news is, the later 2-pedal versions got bolted to the much better 09A Jatco transmission.

Now, the 2.0t engines in the A5, fall into two 100% different engines. The earlier belt-driven BPY engine burns oil like a Kuwaiti well fire. They also have a breather valve problem, HPFP problems, and cam problems. The latter two of which can often be aggravated by running low on oil... which is easy to do when you cannot go 500 miles without dumping a liter in the crankcase.

The later 2.0t engine doesn't seem to have the bad oil consumption, but they do have some HPFP problems, and the water pump (which is buried under the intake) rarely makes it to 100k miles and is costly to replace. Good news is, the intake runner usually tooefs itself around the same time, to you get a 2-for-1 deal on the labor on those. But this engine runs the cams with a chain, and VAG's history with chains has historically been, shall we say, "less than stellar", yes? At least these engines got bolted to the 02E DSG on 2-pedal cars, and it is a good match, IMHO.

The 2.5L engines (yes, you guessed it, a few of those, too) is a decent enough engine, albeit a bit thirsty. Earlier ones were only 150hp, and require quite a bit of 5-cylinder thrumming to get moving, but are certainly adequate. Of course, they have a chain drive, too, and they can be problematic.

The later 2.5L engines got a revised chain setup, so far they are doing better. They also have an extra 20hp and seem to have a less peaky power curve... they run pretty good.

All the 2.5L got bolted to the 09G Aisin trans in 2-pedal form. These almost certainly will need a valve body at or around 100k miles, unless you like tire-chirping neck snapping shifts. TSBs abound for this, and the dealers usually keep the $800 piece of Japanese iron in stock. The 2.5L also has a tendency to start leaking oil at the vacuum pump... which on manuals is a breeze to replace.... automatics, not so much (technically, the trans has to come out, but you *can* do it without).

 

[sasilverbullet]

Well first...highly technical stuff that I understand, thanks!

Yikes! I never realized how complicated these little beasties can be! I guess the 9 years I lived in Germany spoiled me, the mechanics over there are amazing. Maybe that's why VW designs complicated engines, the mechanics in Germany can handle it, not here!

I think I'm going to point my search elsewhere - or maybe find another ALH 03 Jetta. I can do the timing belt myself, I have all the tools and have done it once with much success. I just don't have the computer to make sure the timing is perfect.

Thanks oilhammer...

 

[oilhammer]

Hey now, I am American, and I can "handle it" just fine.

 

[sasilverbullet]

Hey now, I am American, and I can "handle it" just fine.

Yes, but you don't work at either of the two VW dealerships here!

 

[TDI2000Zim]

Yikes! I never realized how complicated these little beasties can be! I guess the 9 years I lived in Germany spoiled me, the mechanics over there are amazing. Maybe that's why VW designs complicated engines, the mechanics in Germany can handle it, not here!

I think I'm going to point my search elsewhere - or maybe find another ALH 03 Jetta. I can do the timing belt myself, I have all the tools and have done it once with much success. I just don't have the computer to make sure the timing is perfect.

Thanks oilhammer...

It's their educational system.

They use the old APPRENTICESHIP System, which takes YEARS of training, and once they are trained, they are set for life (as well as develop huge expertise).

Which may not be wise in our changing age, in view that merely a hundred years ago, there were hundreds of makers and repairers of horse drawn buggies.

 

[turbocharged798]

The later 2.slo manual MK4s are pretty good. The early mechanical throttle AEGs were oil burners and like to kill their cats. That changed in 01+ with the DBW 2.0s. They still don't seems to like cats though and its expensive for an OE one. While not really legal, you can just gut the cat and throw in a 02 sensor spacer. The SAI system is also trouble prone.

Other than that, the 2.0s are pretty bomb proof. Its an ALH minus the injection pump and spark plugs and a cross flow head. They are interference but timing belts are cheap and easy.

The later 2.5s are ok but are heavy gas hogs and the timing chain scares me. The early ones blew timing chains all the time and its interference so bye bye valves.

The 1.8ts are nice to drive and get good mileage but very complex and the engine bay is tight with all the crap going on in there.

I have worked on all of them and by far the 2.slo and manual trans is the most simplistic bomb proof setup. Just keep oil in the crankcase and the timing belt in check and they will run forever.

 

[sasilverbullet]

...Just keep oil in the crankcase and the timing belt in check and they will run forever.

Now that's something I could do!

 

[jessabug]

The later 2.slo manual MK4s are pretty good. The early mechanical throttle AEGs were oil burners and like to kill their cats. That changed in 01+ with the DBW 2.0s. They still don't seems to like cats though and its expensive for an OE one. While not really legal, you can just gut the cat and throw in a 02 sensor spacer. The SAI system is also trouble prone.

Other than that, the 2.0s are pretty bomb proof. Its an ALH minus the injection pump and spark plugs and a cross flow head. They are interference but timing belts are cheap and easy.

The later 2.5s are ok but are heavy gas hogs and the timing chain scares me. The early ones blew timing chains all the time and its interference so bye bye valves.

The 1.8ts are nice to drive and get good mileage but very complex and the engine bay is tight with all the crap going on in there.

I have worked on all of them and by far the 2.slo and manual trans is the most simplistic bomb proof setup. Just keep oil in the crankcase and the timing belt in check and they will run forever.

My '99 didn't drink any oil. I did lose the cat though, and of course was just out of the extended warranty on it. But I got an aftermarket replacement and was out the door for less than $200. Car ran great and no CEL. They are interference motors, but they tend to have much less catastrophic damage. I've seen several cases of no damage at all. Not that I'd risk it...I was worried enough when I got it done at 77k and the car was 8-9 years old.

All in all I really had no complaints about mine. It wasn't fast, but it was cheap. And really easy to keep up with. Having had the 2.0, 1.8T, an ALH, and a Vr6 in the stable at home point (the ALH and VR6 being my husband's cars), I would say the 2.0 was by far the cheapest and easiest. And honestly, if it wasn't totaled by a Prius in 2011, I'd probably still be driving it.

 

[oilhammer]

My '99 didn't drink any oil.

Yours was the only AEG on the planet that could claim that, then.

 

[Paulinski]

My 02 drinks oil and has a check engine from the catalyst below efficiency.

However I got it for $700 loaded except leather and sunroof with 105k on it so I can't complain.

The driver side door switch just took a dump though....So far when you open the door the interior lights won't come on nor the puddle light is on.

5 speed best I got was 30mpg...

 

[Stealth TDI]

As far as reliability and easy to work on, the ALH is probably only beaten by the SOHC 2.0L engines.

I hear the AHU is easier to work on, too!

Scott

 

[Max Period]

How reliable is the HPFP on the new 1.8T gasser?

 

[CotJocky]

I bought a 2006 VW Jetta 2.5 (Package 1) 5 speed brand new in 2006. Still have it and drive it daily. It currently has right at 106k on it.

Since owning the 06 Jetta 2.5, I've had to replace the rear pads twice. They wear out way quicker than the front.

I've put 3 sets of tires on it. Low profile 17's don't hold up as long. Most are directional and last 30k at best.

The airbag light came on around 38k and I have never addressed the issue. Horn hasn't worked since it came on. :-/

The door wiring harnesses have had some broken wires; know issue with those cars. Fixed some of them, but need to replace the harnesses.

The crank sensor went bad, replaced it.

One of the cooling fans went out, replaced it.

Threw a code for either oxygen sensor or catalyst. Changed one of the oxygen sensors, light came back on about 1k later. Same code, same oxygen sensor, I figure my catalyst is going out. Light comes on and off intermittantly.

I change the oil every 5k with synthetic and a Mann oil filter. It has always ate .5 to 1 quart of oil between oil changes.

I've changed the spark plugs once, air filter about 3 times and the cabin filter once.

Timing chain has never made any noise in mine.

Headliner fell after 3-4 years. Black car with black interior in the Southern sun with the windows always rolled up doesn't help. I hate to leave the windows cracked due to wasps and bees. I'm allergic.

I've worn the steering wheel down pretty bad. I don't feel I'm rough on the steering wheel, I feel the material doesn't hold up well. I've never had any other of my VW's do that, but on the same note, it's the only VW I've ever bought new and kept this long.

Leased a 2001 vw beetle TDI for 40 months, but had a near total accident 6 months into the lease and knew I no longer wanted it and did not purchase it at the end due to the extensive damage. I hate wrecked cars. Never had a single issue with that car other than the wreck. Only had 38k on it when I turned it back in.

Those are the issues I've faced with mine so far, YMMV.

 

[oilhammer]

I hear the AHU is easier to work on, too!

Scott

Nah, not really. I'd rather work on an ALH car any day. No rat's nest of wires under the dash, front of car comes of MUCH easier, and you can still get all the parts for them.

 

[oilhammer]

How reliable is the HPFP on the new 1.8T gasser?

Ask again in 5 years.

 

[Lensdude_com]

Ask again in 5 years.

or worse...3K miles/3 months out of warranty

 

[TDI2000Zim]

How reliable is the HPFP on the new 1.8T gasser?

Gassers don't have the extreme high pressure of diesel engines, so my guess is that it should be more reliable than the Bosch CP4.1 on North American diesel cars.

 

[psyphy]

1. We're a 3 Jetta family. 2002 JSW with the 1.8 turbo, 2006 sedan with the 2.5, & 2010 JSW TDI. My kids drive the others & I've been very pleased with the diesel. All automatic. No problems with any of them.
2. RE service, we've primarily used the dealer. The main thing is finding a mechanic who likes VW. This is especially important if you go with the diesel.
3. I don't know if the gear ratio is different with the diesel or with the newer cars, but I'm more likely to need to shift into manual mode with my TDI, especially on hills.
4. The 1.8 has the most zip from a stop.

 

[nokivasara]

How about the 1.6l gasser?
I'm trying to talk my sister into a Golf Variant, 2003 or thereabout and I think the 104hp 1.6 could be a good option for her, at least mileage wise.
Is it the same engine that was used on Golf III (with 75hp back then) ?

 

[oilhammer]

We have not had a VAG 1.6L gas engine sold here since around 1980, LOL....

 

[PlaneCrazy]

If I was devoted to the VW brand then my next new car would be a Jetta 1.8T Gas Engine with 6sp Manual Transmission...
I wouldn't doubt there's some collusion between the EPA and USAuto to impede TDI sales because it worked...and with it the myth of German Engineering.

5-speed manual only with the new 1.8T. If you want 6 cogs, you need to get an automatic

I'd consider the engine once it's been around for a couple of years, and when it migrates to the Golf (wagon or hatch). That will be right around the time my 2011 Golf is due for replacement. And I will be commuting less by then. Either retired, or once our offices move to a more congenial location, by public transit, reducing my drive from 200 km a day to 40.

 

[RabbitGTI]

As a semi-professional VW guy who has helped maintain every VW model since the early 80 for family and friends, I would say the 1.8t is my least favorite motor. I would never buy one, they are a HUGE pain in the ass to work on. Buy anything else. As Oilhammer said the 2.0 8 valve cannot be beat.

 

[oilhammer]

We were discussing the new 1.8T engine, that neither one of us has worked on [yet].

 

[RabbitGTI]

Well that will teach me not to drink a six pack of Two Hearted ale and post without reacing a thread