Jacking / supporting on a gravel driveway...

[Bellyman]

Hi guys,

Hope this won't be too basic of a question but I doubt I'm the first to wonder about this.

I have to do a timing belt / water pump job on a 2004 Jetta TDI. Doesn't look like it'll be a bad job. I think I have assembled everything I'll need to do the job.

Problem is, I have no really good place to do it. I'm stuck with a gravel driveway, fairly level but not quite perfectly level. I hate working on the ground. But I'm kinda stuck without a lot of choices.

How would you support the front end of the car while working on it? I'm a little leary of just sticking the jack stands in the same places as I would if this were a concrete garage floor. (Would I like that!!) I'm about half afraid they'll decide to be less than great about moving around and possibly dumping the car on top of me while I'm under there wrenching.

One thought I had was to use a set of ramps under the front wheels. I have a set that I typically use when doing oil changes and things of that nature. I had wondered if I could pull off the right front wheel, pull off the shrouds that are in the way, put the wheel back on and the ramp underneath before climbing under there to work. I could turn the wheels all the way to the right to try to give me just a bit more room.

Anybody have any ideas on how to do such a basic thing... (step 1)... safely? With or without the ramps? Other support ideas?

It's always this kind of stupid little stuff that gets me. I envy you guys with even the most basic of garages right now. (And no, I don't have a friend closeby with a garage either. Wish I did.)

Thanks for any suggestions.

Brian

 

[Growler]

Brian,

the job can be done with the wheel turned to the right, without removing it.

the tricky part will then be working around the ramp.

if you MUST use jackstands on gravel, use a single 2x12 to spread the load out between the two jackstands. make the board longer than the car is wide to allow the load to be spread out and CHOCK THE REAR WHEELS TIGHTLY.

same for your floor jack, use it on a long board or thick piece of plywood, doubled up thickness.

not ideal, but in a pinch it can be done. be safe, and if you feel at all uncomfortable, DO NOT GET UNDER THE CAR..

 

[steelmb]

After you get it up in the air to the point you are going to start working on it, give the car a good shaking and see if you can knock it off. If you can't then you are good to go.

 

[Bellyman]

Thanks very much for the thoughts. I think I'll try the ramp idea and see if it'll work. I'll post back here when I figure it out and tell you how it goes.

 

[CoolAirVw]

I dont like ramps cuz car can roll off while working. Ask me how I know.

I dont like gravel or dirt cuz jackstands can sink into the ground.

Whatever you do, have some redundancy. 2 jackstands under engine side, tire under car, and leave the jack under there too.

 

[boerssd]

I have a set of four 18" x 18" doubled up 3/4" plywood pads for exactly this purpose. You still want to make sure they are fairly level, but this keeps your jack stands from sinking into the gravel. I even made a set (triple) for my folks RV with rope handles for the levelling jacks. Treat them with some Thompsons water seal and they'll last forever(ish).

Sean.

 

[mctdi]

I dont like gravel or dirt cuz jackstands can sink into the ground.

Whatever you do, have some redundancy. 2 jackstands under engine side, tire under car, and leave the jack under there too.

YES, YES, YES.


Another thought, see about doing the timing belt at a GTG. It would be a drive, but there is one, on May 22, in Wisconsin.

 

[POWERSTROKE]

To me, jacking on a gravel driveway has mistake written all over it.

 

[turbocharged798]

To me, jacking on a gravel driveway has mistake written all over it.

And you think people just happen to have a concrete driveway for car work?

I work on our cars all the time in gravel. As long as the gravel isn't too wet and loose, you will be fine. Just use your head and make sure it is secure.

 

[ruking]

Well the other side of it is there are plenty of cases where cars have slipped off jacks and jackstands on (more ideal) concrete. In any case, the worst case.... you only need ....ONCE !!!!??? On gravel, the conditions are more predisposed so that ONCE can happen more easily.

So you got to ask the "dirty harry" question?..........

Sidebar: (now I have been jacking up and getting under cars since I was literally 4/5 years old, so I have been around cars 55 years?. My Dad was an auto mechanic and started teaching me (obviously) early in life. He'd jack the car up and I would place the jackstands, on concrete, if you are curious....) So I did learn at an early age that so called little decisions and actions can have literally life and death consequences.

 

[Street Toys]

Hello Bellyman,
In my opinion if anything effects safety, you should really not consider doing it! Just ask yourself,... if anything were to happen (murphy's law usually does apply) will there be someone around to call 911?
Will the emergency room fee be cheaper than the mechanics asking price? How much time will you loose from work as well?

Just food for thought,

 

[tdiDerry]

I would, and have.. lay down a shet of 3/4 plywood, drive up onto it with the wheels to the far side of the sheet width wise.. then you can use your stands and not have to work in the dirt. not a bad idea to put some sacrificial plywood under the stands themselves.

Good luck..

 

[CoolAirVw]

A guy on another forum I had car fall on him and crush his head. He is ok now but he was "jacked up". His "ratchet" on his jack stand failed to hold. He was lucky.

I've had 3 cars "fall" on me. All in my younger years (pre 20 years old) and all due to stupidity.

Edit: I forgot about the car that fell off the lift. Once again.. my stupidity.

No-one was ever hurt by this and the cars were'nt damaged either but definatly scared the crap out of me.

 

[Elfnmagik]

I work all the time on gravel and have never had an issue. It takes longer because I'm very cautious to ensure everything is right before starting. I've had my volvo completely off the ground on stands. I use two pieces of 3/4 plywood (4'x4') between the wheels both front and rear for setting the stands. I also leave the hydraulic jack in place (if I can) and put Rhinos either under the wheels or rockers just in case. Can't have overkill here.

 

[fitzski]

You want to do a timing belt/water pump job, but need to ask how to jack the car up? Kudos for diving in... but man, my alarm bells are ringing!!

 

[JB05]

Cinder blocks might be a better option in place of jack stands on gravel.

 

[BobnOH]

don't use cinder blocks if you're getting under the car

 

[Elfnmagik]

You want to do a timing belt/water pump job, but need to ask how to jack the car up? Kudos for diving in... but man, my alarm bells are ringing!!

Yeah, that's a good point.

 

[POWERSTROKE]

And you think people just happen to have a concrete driveway for car work?

I work on our cars all the time in gravel. As long as the gravel isn't too wet and loose, you will be fine. Just use your head and make sure it is secure.

That is like saying that you don't have any food in your house so you will drink ammonia.

 

[Franko6]

If it's rickety, it's dangerous. I've never gone under a car YET without being sure of my setup. Lesson was learned from one of my dad's workmates.. an electronics engineer, dead at 40, when the car he supported on CINDER BLOCKS (!!!) collapsed while he was under it. Obviously, he was not a mechanical engineer, or he never would have done such a stupid thing.

If you have to work on gravel, the plywood idea is a good one. But I'd cut 3/4" pieces that are 6" larger on each side then the base of your jack stands.

I guess I assume you are using jack stands. DON'T support a car only with a jack. Get some decent jack stands. Jack stands are very inexpensive, especially when it's your life that you are protecting.

 

[chittychittybangbang]

Cinder blocks might be a better option in place of jack stands on gravel.

Cinder blocks can kill you because they can crumble, not show weakness or defects, and have a strong direction and weak direction - which direction is strong? Everyone has done stupid stuff and given bad advice so I'm speaking up to let you know that this is a very bad idea. While cinder blocks would spread out the weight better you should never use cinder blocks to support the weight of a car since (in addition to the above) your life depends on it and they should have a barrier like a piece of plywood on them when using them to support a weight.

Bellyman, if you have any doubt about safety there is no doubt. Having backup jackstands with plywood underneath to support them would be a bare minimum. Why not find a friend's house with a solid surface to work on? Here are my notes on supporting the car at the wheels - http://www.myturbodiesel.com/1000q_how_to/multi/woodblock.htm . It'll spread out the weight on softer surfaces but I'd still use a large sheet of plywood to spread out the weight. Use your own judgement here. http://www.myturbodiesel.com/1000q_how_to/a4/timingBeltBEW_rem.htm Here are my notes on the timing belt - I didn't take off the wheel. There is also .pdf instructions here if you search.

 

[Bellyman]

Ok, I promised I'd report back. Job finished.

As for the jacking / supporting, I did do the job with the front tire on the car turned all the way to the right. The wheel was sitting on a car ramp. I had a jack stand and a jack for redundancy. I really did not find the ramp to be in the way as the side of the engine was well in front of that.

The biggest pain in the posterior of the whole job was that dang motor mount. Despite my efforts, I just was never able to get that thing out, which would have made the job of getting the old timing belt off and the new one on so much easier, not to mention leaving me more room to change / adjust the tensioner. Nonetheless, I worked around it and got the new ones on just fine.

One of the reasons I did the job to start with was because I suspected that the person who just did the TB before I bought the car probably had no clue how to do it right. This belt only had a couple hundred miles on it. The engine ran rough and was a hard start when cold. As it turned out, it was mistimed. Once the locking pins were in place, the section of TB between the crankshaft and the camshaft was actually rather loose, which would put the cam in a retarded position if I'm thinking correctly.

It was still a hard start initially after the new TB but ran much smoother than before I started the job. There may be a few more things to fix. But the TB / water pump job was actually pretty easy. (I've done more complicated TB jobs on other vehicles but this was my first TDI.) It wasn't in the manual that I could see, but once I had the belt on and the tensioner set, I did pull the locking pins and turn the crank over a couple of times and recheck to see if the alignment pins fell into place. And I even tweaked it just a tad to get it spot on. Second time turning the crank by hand saw the locking pins right where they were supposed to be.

I still hate working on gravel. But I did the job. And I'd like to think I did it pretty safely, which was really what this thread was about.

Fitzski, I understand your concern and appreciate that. I realize you don't know me or what I can or can't do. I'm actually more comfortable working on the older, heavier kinds of vehicles where you can pretty much jack on any substantial member without worrying about damaging anything and support in lots of different places. My initial post was more in discomfort with a lack of places I felt comfortable jacking and/or supporting the vehicle along with a less than great surface upon which to set that jack / jack stand / support. And I did appreciate all the replys.

Thanks guys.

Brian / Bellyman

 

[ruking]

I was glad to hear you got the job done without incident. Nirvana is access to a 4 point -2 post modern lift !!! Don't forget an A/C 'd maintenance bay !!

 

[JB05]

My bad; my appologies to the OP and anyone else for my unsound suggestion. Chitty and Frank, thankyou for the enlightment. Instead of deleting my post, I'll let it stay as a reminder to anyone who may have the same misconception as I had.