It's (semi) Official. 2015 owners get the shaft

bizzle

Veteran Member
Joined
May 21, 2013
Location
Southern California
TDI
2015 GSW SEL (totaled), 2013 Touareg Executive
I've seen multiple comments now that seems like people aren't quite clear on how the settlement process worked. There were no wild ass guesses and there was no "no one was paying attention" or "VW getting away." It was a negotiation and VW put their criteria on the table, the government theirs, and the class action attorneys stated theirs.

Negotiations, some wins, some concessions, etc.

You can look at this like "negotiating means everyone loses" (seems to be the tenor of this thread) or you could argue that "negotiating means everyone wins (something)" (could have been it was either this or *nothing*).
 

RollingCoal

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 4, 2015
Location
Md
TDI
2015 Golf Tdi SEL
Only NADA knows what those criteria are, and they aren't telling--at least, not in enough detail to allow anyone else to duplicate their work. If they did, why would we need NADA?

VW's methodology* for pre-2015 cars is simple: look at the book, as it was in 9/15. They can't do that with 2015 cars, since they weren't in the book in 9/15. They can't duplicate NADA's methodology, because they don't know what it is--and even if they did, it's far from certain that it would be valid on current-model-year cars (which is why "pay NADA to run the numbers for you" likely wouldn't work either).

Are the values for 2015 cars too low? It seems that way. @RollingCoal says that the 29% depreciation for the first year is much higher than average, which may be so. If that can be demonstrated, that sounds like a very worthy objection to make to the court and class counsel. But to your stated question of why the MY2015 values are calculated differently, the answer is "because it is literally impossible to calculate them the same way as for pre-MY2015 cars".

* Really, the methodology of the settlement agreements. There's no way to say who first suggested it, or what (if any) revisions happened between that first suggestion and the filing of the proposed agreements on 6/28.
It certainly is impossible to calculate them the same way they did the others because there wasn't NADA data available. In my humble opinion in lieu of having the same third party values for the cars that all other models had, the most honest and transparent method would be to use another vendors values. Other than the agreement among the parties negotiating the deal, I don't see any hard and fast reason to use NADA over some of the other third party models. I think anything short of using a value put forth by someone with no skin in the game is probably going to offend whoever feels shorted by the deal.

As for me I will submit a comment since all the bloviating is somewhat pointless without doing so. In the end the offers for 2015's, specifically those with low miles, seem to fall short by about $1500-$2500 in my estimation. From my perspective, the dollar figure is less offensive than the method used to get there which for me seems that VW is offering just enough for most 2015 owners not to kick up a bunch of dust. For the headache alone, an extra grand or two would have left a better taste in my mouth for the annoyance of having to get another car and if anything VW should be going out of their way to instill confidence in buying another vehicle from them. For me, they still have a chance to do so with a solid incentive based discount on another car from them. At the end of the day I don't feel majorly wronged or screwed but I'm not over the moon with the offer like the people who it worked out extremely well for.
 

Old Radar

Member
Joined
Jul 3, 2015
Location
San Antonio, TX
TDI
2015 Jetta TDI SE w/Connectivity
I still fail to see how getting the car free for a year and getting all your money back, or getting a free fix and $7k is a raw deal. If you don't want the reduced performance of the car, and don't want to just keep it, you get a full refund. If you don't mind a reduction in performance, because it's still the best combination of things available for that style vehicle, then you get $7k. If you want the car you paid for, you get the car you paid for.
Let's talk about that $7K restitution for 2015 "owners". I put owners in quotes because I just found out I'm not considered an owner in the primary category because I took out a loan to buy my '15 Jetta SE in June 2015. By my calculations my restitution should be $7,022.53. After filling out all the required info on vwcourtsettlement.com, the site calculated a restitution value of $3,511.27. This surprised me--especially since all I have read indicated the minimum restitution would be $5,100.

Since most '15 "owners" on this thread talk about $7K as the expected amount, there are either a boatload of members who plunked down the full price of their vehicles without the help of a bank OR there are a boatload of members who may have to re-assess the category they fall into for this issue--and possibly which option they choose.

The people at 1-844-98-CLAIM say that because I have a lien on the car, my category is Eligible Owner AFTER September 18, 2015(even though I did the deal in June). This cuts the restitution in half to 10% of the vehicle value plus $1,493.37.

Nothing like adding a little insult to injury.:mad:
 

Airpizz6

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2015
Location
Bel Air, MD
TDI
Now TDI-free, but there now is a 15 MB E250 BT in the driveway
Old Radar, like Bizzle says, that makes no sense. Is it possible you entered Jun 16 rather than Jun 15 as the purchase date on the web portal? That would give you the numbers you speak of. Of course, you couldn't buy a new TDI in Jun 16, but could have bought a used '15. The website portal doesn't distinguish between new and used.
 

Old Radar

Member
Joined
Jul 3, 2015
Location
San Antonio, TX
TDI
2015 Jetta TDI SE w/Connectivity
I was on the phone with them for over 30 minutes trying to sort it out. They say because the bank holds the title, I was not the owner before September 18, 2015 and therefore I am in the category of owners after 18 Sept. This category gets only half the restitution. I argued that that category was for people who bought after the news broke, but it was like listening to a broken record--"because the bank holds the title..."

I'd love to hear the experiences of other '15 owners with bank loans who have actually submitted their claim to the vwcourtsettlement.com site because like bizzle says, this can't be right.
 

DanB36

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2003
Location
Savannah, GA
TDI
2014 Q5 Prestige TDI, Monsoon Gray
They say because the bank holds the title, I was not the owner before September 18, 2015 and therefore I am in the category of owners after 18 Sept.
That's simply incorrect, unless Texas works differently from every other state. In most states, the bank holds onto the physical certificate of title (which is still called the "pink slip" in California, though it's been decades since it's been pink), and they're noted on it as a lien holder. But the certificate of title is still issued in the buyer's name, with the buyer indicated as the owner. When the loan is paid off, someone at the bank signs the place on the piece of paper to release the lien, and then mails that same piece of paper to the owner. There's no change of ownership.

I'd suggest getting in touch with one of the class attorneys and seeing what they say--it sounds like the phone rep has this very wrong. Are you sure you put in the purchase date correctly?
 

bizzle

Veteran Member
Joined
May 21, 2013
Location
Southern California
TDI
2015 GSW SEL (totaled), 2013 Touareg Executive
I was on the phone with them for over 30 minutes trying to sort it out. They say because the bank holds the title, I was not the owner before September 18, 2015 and therefore I am in the category of owners after 18 Sept. This category gets only half the restitution. I argued that that category was for people who bought after the news broke, but it was like listening to a broken record--"because the bank holds the title..."

I'd love to hear the experiences of other '15 owners with bank loans who have actually submitted their claim to the vwcourtsettlement.com site because like bizzle says, this can't be right.
I still have a loan for my 2012 and I'm getting the full restitution amount according to the site.
 

grawk

Veteran Member
Joined
May 12, 2012
Location
Oak Ridge, TN
TDI
'14 JSW TDI (used)
I was on the phone with them for over 30 minutes trying to sort it out. They say because the bank holds the title, I was not the owner before September 18, 2015 and therefore I am in the category of owners after 18 Sept. This category gets only half the restitution. I argued that that category was for people who bought after the news broke, but it was like listening to a broken record--"because the bank holds the title..."

I'd love to hear the experiences of other '15 owners with bank loans who have actually submitted their claim to the vwcourtsettlement.com site because like bizzle says, this can't be right.
Did you originally lease it?
 

meatloaf

New member
Joined
Oct 1, 2015
Location
ann arbor mi
TDI
2015 Jetta tdi
What you you all think about the likelihood of VW offering decent repairs and maintenance 10+ years down the line if I choose to get the fix. Like some of you, I love everything about the car except the deception--but am wondering whether it makes sense to keep it if VW is looking to get out of the diesel business. Thanks for any thoughts!
 

ZippyNH

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2015
Location
Southern NH
TDI
2015 JETTA TDI SE
What you you all think about the likelihood of VW offering decent repairs and maintenance 10+ years down the line if I choose to get the fix. Like some of you, I love everything about the car except the deception--but am wondering whether it makes sense to keep it if VW is looking to get out of the diesel business. Thanks for any thoughts!
That's my biggest worry...if they keep selling diesel cars, and similar motors, then I think we will be fine....but I do worry about the expertise and knowledge with the ea-288....
So I'm leaning towards waiting a bit...and and waiting too see how the 2015 and 2017+ tdi sales situation plays out....we know 2016 will be zero units/availability....but they say indirectly that there will be sales, but they seem to imply a strategy change, possibly to a more BMW like premium only model ...if this happens it might HELP 2015 values, and might make them more desirable as the last of the lower priced diesel cars.
It sounds like the "fix" on the 2015 ea-288 motors will be pretty minor, with just a couple sensors too verify the emissions systems are functioning correctly....and possibly a minor increase in DEF use since all the info I have read says the ea-288 is within a few % of being legal, asopposed to orders of magnitudes like the gen1 cars...
I'm Thinking since ours are so close to being legal, we are effectively getting less $$ in the buy-back... debatable I know, but technically we were decieved the least, and the shortest time...and the "fix" should be a non-event with a free oil change tossed in, and a longer warrenty....
 

bizzle

Veteran Member
Joined
May 21, 2013
Location
Southern California
TDI
2015 GSW SEL (totaled), 2013 Touareg Executive
What you you all think about the likelihood of VW offering decent repairs and maintenance 10+ years down the line if I choose to get the fix. Like some of you, I love everything about the car except the deception--but am wondering whether it makes sense to keep it if VW is looking to get out of the diesel business. Thanks for any thoughts!
I think you'll be fine. There will be plenty of mechanics able and willing to service your TDI. Many of us own and operate TDIs that are 20 years old.
 

faultymechanics

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 3, 2015
Location
Vermont
TDI
1992 Jetta Ecodiesel, 2015 Jetta TDI SEL
That's my biggest worry...if they keep selling diesel cars, and similar motors, then I think we will be fine....but I do worry about the expertise and knowledge with the ea-288....
So I'm leaning towards waiting a bit...and and waiting too see how the 2015 and 2017+ tdi sales situation plays out....we know 2016 will be zero units/availability....but they say indirectly that there will be sales, but they seem to imply a strategy change, possibly to a more BMW like premium only model ...if this happens it might HELP 2015 values, and might make them more desirable as the last of the lower priced diesel cars.
It sounds like the "fix" on the 2015 ea-288 motors will be pretty minor, with just a couple sensors too verify the emissions systems are functioning correctly....and possibly a minor increase in DEF use since all the info I have read says the ea-288 is within a few % of being legal, asopposed to orders of magnitudes like the gen1 cars...
I'm Thinking since ours are so close to being legal, we are effectively getting less $$ in the buy-back... debatable I know, but technically we were decieved the least, and the shortest time...and the "fix" should be a non-event with a free oil change tossed in, and a longer warrenty....

Everything has two sides though. You say we were ceieved theleast, okay agreed...kind of. they were well aware of the issues for years before the 2015 model dropped. So VW was lying through their teeth (not dealers) from the moment you bought one.

the issue is people like me who owned their car for 8 weeks before the scandal broke.

VW is telling me in 8 weeks my car depreciated 29%....they can get the F outta hear if you ask me. Everyone I tell that to gives me the same wide eyed open mouth look. They have no clue this is going on. Besides the members of this forum, people are clueless.
 

Airpizz6

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2015
Location
Bel Air, MD
TDI
Now TDI-free, but there now is a 15 MB E250 BT in the driveway
the issue is people like me who owned their car for 8 weeks before the scandal broke.

VW is telling me in 8 weeks my car depreciated 29%....they can get the F outta hear if you ask me. Everyone I tell that to gives me the same wide eyed open mouth look. They have no clue this is going on. Besides the members of this forum, people are clueless.
Bought mine 4 weeks before the scandal broke. Getting roughly $5K more than the out the door total. Could care less how they figured that number. If that makes me clueless, so be it.
 

faultymechanics

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 3, 2015
Location
Vermont
TDI
1992 Jetta Ecodiesel, 2015 Jetta TDI SEL
Bought mine 4 weeks before the scandal broke. Getting roughly $5K more than the out the door total. Could care less how they figured that number. If that makes me clueless, so be it.

Best be careful, apparently you have to pay taxes on anything more than what you paid. Additionally you MUST be under the mileage. I'm well over so I don't get anywhere close to that.

Lets think about the 2015's as a whole, not by just you.
 

jblondin

Active member
Joined
Oct 8, 2015
Location
atlanta
TDI
2015 Golf Sportwagen
How "values" were calculated

I found this on the courts website. This is part of the preliminary approval;:mad:

1. Base Value and Vehicle Value
The amount of cash a Class Member receives depends on an Eligible Vehicle’s Base Value or Vehicle Value. Base Value refers to, where available, the Clean Trade value of the vehicle based on the National Automobile Dealers Association (“NADA”) Vehicle Identification Code (“VIC”) for each Eligible Vehicle in the September 2015 NADA Used Car Guide published in or around August 2015. (Dkt. No. 1685 ¶ 2.5; Dkt. No. 1685-1 ¶ 11.) In some instances, like with Model Year 2015 Eligible Vehicles, no value was published by NADA as of September 2015. For those Eligible Vehicles, the Base Value is calculated by multiplying the Manufacturer’s Suggested Retail Price (“MSRP”) for each individual vehicle by 0.717. (Id. (both).) The 0.717 figure is the ratio of average September 2015 Clean Trade values to average MSRPs for Model Year 2015

I think this is kinda weak. I had my car two weeks before scandal broke.
 

Rico567

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jun 13, 2003
Location
Central IL
TDI
2013 Passat TDI SEL Premium (Turned in 7/7/18)
Too bad I drive in excess of the 1024 a month which I imagine 80% of tdi owners do. I have to calculate out what I would lose by holding on to the car until the warranty is up or it needs an expensive service I don't want to pay for.

On that note, does anyone know which of the service intervals on the 2015's are costly? I seem to remember there is one at 40k or so that runs in excess of $500.
You have an SEL, so that's presumably the DSG transmission, which runs the price of the service every 40K up quite a bit, double in some cases. Most people seem to get the 40K at a dealer for $650 or so. I did it in our garage with parts I bought using the $500 dealer card VW obligingly gave us. And that will be the first and last 40K I do on the car, since we'll be participating in the buyback.
 

Old Radar

Member
Joined
Jul 3, 2015
Location
San Antonio, TX
TDI
2015 Jetta TDI SE w/Connectivity
I was on the phone with them for over 30 minutes trying to sort it out. They say because the bank holds the title, I was not the owner before September 18, 2015 and therefore I am in the category of owners after 18 Sept. This category gets only half the restitution. I argued that that category was for people who bought after the news broke, but it was like listening to a broken record--"because the bank holds the title..."

I'd love to hear the experiences of other '15 owners with bank loans who have actually submitted their claim to the vwcourtsettlement.com site because like bizzle says, this can't be right.
Okay--mystery solved. I called again today and explained the issue to someone who actually listened to my problem. John looked at my application and found that I had indicated May 2016 instead of May 2015 as my purchase date. He unlocked my application and I was able to correct the date. Lo and behold the restitution value jumped to $7,022.53--no issue of the bank holding the title. Just a simple case of fat-fingering the input. So now I'm back with the rest of you--getting screwed normally instead of anally.:eek:
Thanks for all the sympathy and support--sorry for claiming the sky was falling.
 

Airpizz6

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2015
Location
Bel Air, MD
TDI
Now TDI-free, but there now is a 15 MB E250 BT in the driveway
Okay--mystery solved. I called again today and explained the issue to someone who actually listened to my problem. John looked at my application and found that I had indicated May 2016 instead of May 2015 as my purchase date. He unlocked my application and I was able to correct the date. Lo and behold the restitution value jumped to $7,022.53--no issue of the bank holding the title. Just a simple case of fat-fingering the input. So now I'm back with the rest of you--getting screwed normally instead of anally.:eek:
Thanks for all the sympathy and support--sorry for claiming the sky was falling.
Several of us solved that problem for you a few days back if you would have bothered to read the posts. Was no mystery whatever. Just operator error.
 

bizzle

Veteran Member
Joined
May 21, 2013
Location
Southern California
TDI
2015 GSW SEL (totaled), 2013 Touareg Executive
Several of us solved that problem for you a few days back if you would have bothered to read the posts. Was no mystery whatever. Just operator error.
If you would have bothered to read his post his application was locked so he couldn't edit the typo.
 

evoblade

Veteran Member
Joined
May 16, 2012
Location
Sterling, VA
TDI
2009 VW Jetta TDI
And it's not a years profit; VW has pulled out of the South Korean market; the second largest market they have in Asia. They have said small diesels are pretty much done with in the states. Germany has said they are trying to figure out what to ask from VW because they don't want to be "unreasonable" unlike their "friends" across the Atlantic. VW is in serious trouble here, and while I think they will pull through, it is not out of the realm of possibility that they will not survive this once all the dust settles.
My 2010 Cup Edition has just under 30k on the clock. It also has had over $20k in mods done to it. It will not be bought back; thankfully come January it can have permanent plates put on it.
-BB
If VW does not survive, it will not be from the financial hit from this. They are damn near (if not) the largest manufacturer in the world. They can absorb the hit. There's plenty of financial/accounting jazz they can do to minimize the impact. What could kill them is the ****ty way they treat their customers and the length of time they are dragging this out.

I know I personally would have to think long and hard about buying another one. I loved my Jetta when it ran.
 

Airpizz6

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2015
Location
Bel Air, MD
TDI
Now TDI-free, but there now is a 15 MB E250 BT in the driveway
If you would have bothered to read his post his application was locked so he couldn't edit the typo.
Sorry, didn't intend to come across as harsh. But the poor dude was in panic mode for a couple weeks when the reason for the problem was obvious over a week ago.
 

Old Radar

Member
Joined
Jul 3, 2015
Location
San Antonio, TX
TDI
2015 Jetta TDI SE w/Connectivity
If you would have bothered to read his post his application was locked so he couldn't edit the typo.
Sorry, didn't intend to come across as harsh. But the poor dude was in panic mode for a couple weeks when the reason for the problem was obvious over a week ago.
Thanks for the assist Bizzle and to all who offered advice!

As for panic mode, I would characterize it more as Pizzed Off mode.;)
Let me assure Airpizz that I DO read (and re-read) posts directed at me and those concerning my issues. I'm also a member of Supramania and those boys definitely don't stand for people who pop in and spout off at the last post without checking what's already been covered. And as you can tell by my delayed response, I'm not on here very often--I'd much rather spend my time and brain power on the many things that don't piss me off so much.

Thanks again and I hope this all works out to everyone's satisfaction. Now I've got to go mow the grass...
 
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