It's (semi) Official. 2015 owners get the shaft

autdi

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 11, 2004
Location
Alabama
TDI
2000 NB, 2003 NB, 2006 Touareg, 2015 Jetta, 2015 Jetta
My official estimate is $1500 less than the unofficial one, using the settlement tables and the helpful calculator on this site. Am I doing something wrong?

Details:
2015 Golf SE manual trans; 11,000 odo

Unofficial calculations:
27,202 Base - 810 (trans) + 870 (mileage) = $27,202
Confirmed through manual calculation and through the
unofficial calculator

Official calculations:
18,917 (return amount) + 6770.13 (restitution) = $25687.13
Official VWGOA calculation
I'm not complaining, since the official calculation is basically what I paid less taxes. But I didn't expect the unofficial and official estimates to be off by $1500 so I want to make sure I'm not missing something obvious. I purchased it in July 2014, but I put in July 2015 just to see if there was any impact on the calculation and there wasn't.

Thanks,

Bill
All of the 2015 models were assigned a base number that covered 4 pdf files worth of tables, so the calculation was never accurate. What was claimed as the equation, MSRP * 0.717 got the base number +- options +- miles, the owner compensation was then 20% of that + 2986.73.

from CAS doc:
(2) for Model Year (“MY”) 2015 Eligible Vehicles for which no value was published by NADA as of September 2015, derived by multiplying 0.717 by the MSRP for each individual vehicle, as indicated on the list of all owned and leased vehicles provided by Volkswagen, dropping any fractional amount, and then adjusting each Base Value for options.
 

autdi

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 11, 2004
Location
Alabama
TDI
2000 NB, 2003 NB, 2006 Touareg, 2015 Jetta, 2015 Jetta
Why is everyone with a '15 so eager to get rid of it? Do you hate it that much, or have you found something better? I understand if you are unhappy with VW's deceptive practices, but do you really want to go through the car buying process all over again?
Again, look at the CARB graph that shows the NOx output of a 2015. If it's over the spec, it's over by a tiny bit. Does it have the cheat code in there, yes, does it need it, doesn't look like it other than for lower DEF usage. Even that appears to be a limited difference, if it was at 0.06, and they take it to 0.03, you don't get extra points for being way under. Bump the DEF use by 25%, and it's under the limit, again this is eying the chart, it's lacking the necessary 0.05 line to know where exactly the 2015 is at.
 

Borsig

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Oct 22, 2009
Location
va
TDI
2015 Golf TDI SE, 2015 GSW SEL (buyback), 2011 JSW (sold)
I paid ~32,500 with taxes.

My buyout now with 32K miles is 31093.00

If I drive it till 2018, to the last bit of settlemet - I still get 29,000
The most benefical move for 15 owners, is to drive the hell out of it, then turn it in june 2018.


I just wish I could do that and get a new tdi wagon LOL
 
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ChimneyJim

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2012
Location
Northern Illinois
TDI
'15 SportWagen SEL
This is the thing that is really quite amazing to me, really. The 2015 owners have the best cars out there for keepers, may be the last TDIs in the US, and everyone except one person is saying they're getting price paid back (one guy claiming that is "barely tolerable").



If it's horrible, keep the damn car. Take the fix money and sell the car. Give the car back for the money you paid. What is the issue here? Do you guys think us older model drivers are getting more than we paid?


Not sure if you are talking about my comment of "barely acceptable". My point was that it took a sale price below invoice and low mileage to effectively break even.
 

RollingCoal

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 4, 2015
Location
Md
TDI
2015 Golf Tdi SEL
I see that the calculation they used to determine the value is roughly 71% of MSRP. In this case VW would be allowed to devalue someone's car almost 30% even if they bought the car a day before the scandal broke. Really bad way for VW to treat their most recent customers. To be made whole in this case you would have had to negotiate a few grand below MSRP minimum. It took me driving to four dealerships and pushing hard for over a week to get 3 grand off MSRP because the 2015 tdi was a good seller in my area and dealerships just had little incentive to knock much off. 29% devaluation in a few months is well above the average depreciation of a new car and there's plenty of data to back that up.
 

DanB36

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 13, 2003
Location
Savannah, GA
TDI
2014 Q5 Prestige TDI, Monsoon Gray
29% devaluation in a few months is well above the average depreciation of a new car and there's plenty of data to back that up.
I think that's probably correct, and would make a good comment to the court--particularly if the supporting data is provided with the comment.
 

autdi

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 11, 2004
Location
Alabama
TDI
2000 NB, 2003 NB, 2006 Touareg, 2015 Jetta, 2015 Jetta
I think that's probably correct, and would make a good comment to the court--particularly if the supporting data is provided with the comment.
Anecdote only, but when I bought the 2014 Beetle in August, there was a used 2014 Beetle for sale at the same time, originally sold late 2013, about 2k miles on it, dealer claimed it was someone who bought it, then it didn't work for them, they couldn't get used to a manual again. It was listed for sale at 1k under what I paid, or 94% of new, same options, color everything. I figured the 1k difference was worth it given it probably lived a hard life with someone trying to re-learn a manual.

So, trade in may be really low, but retail on 1 year old cars is about the same as new.
 

rd17vwtdi

Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2016
Location
PA
TDI
2012 Golf TDi
THIS! Yes, I can get all my money back, but why? I bought the car because I liked it and it met my needs, that hasn't changed.
Getting the fix (with the biggest impact likely being 2x def usage) gives me over $7,000, along with a 150,000 mile warrantly on all the parts that matter (including the HPFP).
Why is everyone with a '15 so eager to get rid of it? Do you hate it that much, or have you found something better? I understand if you are unhappy with VW's deceptive practices, but do you really want to go through the car buying process all over again?
I may be unique, but I really don't like buying cars... it takes a long time to find what I like at a price I can afford. I drive them 'till the wheels fall off (and sometimes longer :)), and I don't need a new one every three years.
I guess I should be glad that there are folks who will constantly replace their cars, it helps keep the economy going :).


I 100% agree with this, I dont get why so many people with '15s are acting like they must do the Buy-back or that thats their only option.
Even the majority of people that are complaining about/dont like the terms of the Buy-back are still talking about choosing Buy-back anyway.

If you own a 2015, that means its likely a fairly new car for you. You also must like the car since you bought it.

People keep only talking about how the terms/calculations for the 2015s are terrible, IE this thread is literally titled, "2015 owners get the shaft", but ALL of that is only focusing on the Buy-back.
Its pretty obvious that the offer for Gen-3s are tailored to encourage people to choose the Fix, yet so many people seem so set on doing the opposite.. and not only that, are complaining like thats their only option.

Yes, the Buy-back Offer of the Settlement likely is Shafting a portion of 2015 owners for whatever reason, but that doesn't mean the offer as a whole is screwing/shafting '15 owners because you at least have another feasible option.
Id even argue that your other Option is actually pretty sweet.


If I had a '15 Golf instead of a '12, I would take the Fix in a Heartbeat, and actually be pretty ecstatic about it.
You bought a car, likely within the last year, that you:
One - Like/Enjoy
Two - were most likely planning to drive for awhile.

Suddenly, VW is going to hand you an unexpected big chunk of Money, to continue to do what your already doing..
And not only are you getting some money, but their giving you enough money to be able to Correct/Resolve pretty much whatever you dis-liked most about Dieselgate to begin with.

People that are only pissed/concerned about possible Performance/MPG loss can use the money to get a Tune and easily wipe out anything the fix does.
People that are pissed/concerned about possible Reliability type issues get a nice warranty and can use the money to upgrade whatever they'd like to make the car super reliable.
And people that really are pissed about the Emissions/Environmental aspect can get their car fixed for free and be sent on their way with both pockets full of money for their troubles.


I have a 2012 Golf, so I dont really have a feasible 2nd option like '15s do.
If I want to keep my TDi, my fix is anything but simple.
Ive got to let them hack in some after-thought SCR System that was never designed to be in that car to begin with, which brings on countless unknowns including reliability, what its going to do to the car, and how easily/if it will be reversible if the fix trashes the car.

Which is why I feel like my only real option is to do the Buy-back.


Im actually quite envious of people with '15s..

Not only will VW pay for the Tune to easily reverse any fix if a person so desires to have it done..
But you could also go as far as Upgrading the HPFP, the Turbo, and all the other Common Failure Points in these cars to give yourself a car that's Rock-solid Reliable for easily the next few 100k miles, all on VW's dime.
 

RollingCoal

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 4, 2015
Location
Md
TDI
2015 Golf Tdi SEL
Ok so you suggest that getting the fix is a win/win because it's easy to wipe out the fix and tune the car. Also, we get this excellent warranty on the emissions parts. If you get the tune you can potentially kiss the extra warranty and the remainder of the factory warranty goodbye. I don't get how people don't understand that alot of owners don't have faith in VW right in this moment to count the extra warranty as something to get all bubbly about. I personally don't have alot of faith that VW will honor that warranty under any and all circumstances and may go out of their way to make sure that cars getting work done on the extended warranty aren't tuned or modified back to pre-fix standards. I was never overly happy with the performance of the car but the fact that I knew I could tune it after my warranty was over made me fine with any shortcomings I perceived. Now I would have to not tune the car without giving up an extended warranty which is only put into place because long term data on reliability of the cars after the fix is unknown. I'm not willing to have a HPFP which is already been an issue with the cars under any extra risk of gernading however small it may be and then have faith that VW won't weasel out of fixing it if I mod the car in any way.

Additionally, you point out that the buybacks for 2015's are likely tailored to push people towards the fix. That screams foul to me and many others. The options should both be valid regardless of what VW prefers to do with different model year cars. I don't need VW nudging me towards an option, both should be relatively equal and fair under the CAS. The most pointless argument you make is comparing your situation to that of others. You don't have a 2015 and the trend seems to be that folks that got several years good usage out of the car feel entirely different than those who plunked down a good chunk of change for a vehicle that was immediately tossed into a scandal. In fact the majority of people not understanding why 2015 owners feel slighted are those with older cars who the buyback works out better for considering the amount of fair use you got out of the vehicle.
 

fredthe

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 18, 2012
Location
Bowie, MD
TDI
2013 Passat SEL Premium DSG, 2015 Golf Sportwagon SEL DSG
I have a 2012 Golf, so I dont really have a feasible 2nd option like '15s do.
If I want to keep my TDi, my fix is anything but simple.
Ive got to let them hack in some after-thought SCR System that was never designed to be in that car to begin with, which brings on countless unknowns including reliability, what its going to do to the car, and how easily/if it will be reversible if the fix trashes the car.
Which is why I feel like my only real option is to do the Buy-back.
In case you haven't been following along, there are no current plans to "hack in" an SCR system on Gen 1. Now there may be a performance/economy impact for those, as they will need to play with LNT and EGR parameters, and put in a new LNT, and it may absolutely make sense to get rid of it. But please don't jump to conclusions on what a fix may involve.
 
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rd17vwtdi

Member
Joined
Mar 8, 2016
Location
PA
TDI
2012 Golf TDi
I bought my car less than a month and a half before this broke, soo yeah I think I might fall into that "Plunked down a good chunk of change for a vehicle that was immediately tossed into a scandal" group. :p

No Im not at all saying its a win/win, but I do think its a good and potentially more favorable alternative for many compared to the buy-back.

The Warranty is certainly not why you would choose the fix, nor was I ever implying it should be. We all know Dealership Warranties are pretty much****.
You'd choose the fix bc they are going to give you $7000 which gives you the option to upgrade/replace the HPFP, and any other parts that are prone to failure so you end up with a car that you know will be rock-solid going forward.
If anything I would consider the extra Warranty as a nice gesture, but it certainly shouldn't be the basis for a decision either way..

I wasn't really even trying to make an argument, more just stating that I dont get why more people with '15s arnt considering the fix.

Id much rather have a Gen 3 where getting the fix at least seems like its potentially a viable solution for some, and possibly a no-brainer for others.
Opposed to having a Gen 1 where I feel like I really have no choice but to do a buy-back on a car I barely owned for a month when this broke.
 
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CV-GSW

Active member
Joined
Jun 30, 2016
Location
GVRD
TDI
2015 GSW TDI
I paid ~32,500 with taxes.

My buyout now with 32K miles is 31093.00

If I drive it till 2018, to the last bit of settlemet - I still get 29,000
The most benefical move for 15 owners, is to drive the hell out of it, then turn it in june 2018.


I just wish I could do that and get a new tdi wagon LOL
Borsig, Did you calculate that with the restitution pay as well?

TIA
 

RollingCoal

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 4, 2015
Location
Md
TDI
2015 Golf Tdi SEL
I view driving the vehicle towards the end of the buyback period to be somewhat of a risk myself. There are a few unknowns here like what if VW files bankruptcy at any point during this. Has the money already been transferred from VW to an independent agent who will disburse the money regardless of VW's present financial situation at any given time? Also I see that you still get the compensation money if the vehicle is totaled after final approval of the CAS but you could still end up getting less than the BB amount if insurance payout + VW payout isn't greater than the BB number today.
 

ZippyNH

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2015
Location
Southern NH
TDI
2015 JETTA TDI SE
Folks....the 2015 has a DIFFERENTmodel fuel pump....
Maybe I am assuming Bosch improved it...but no reports if failed 2015 pumps....
 

autdi

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 11, 2004
Location
Alabama
TDI
2000 NB, 2003 NB, 2006 Touareg, 2015 Jetta, 2015 Jetta
I view driving the vehicle towards the end of the buyback period to be somewhat of a risk myself. There are a few unknowns here like what if VW files bankruptcy at any point during this. Has the money already been transferred from VW to an independent agent who will disburse the money regardless of VW's present financial situation at any given time? Also I see that you still get the compensation money if the vehicle is totaled after final approval of the CAS but you could still end up getting less than the BB amount if insurance payout + VW payout isn't greater than the BB number today.
The scenarios listed are all covered in the FTC settlement like:

The facts alleged in the Complaint will be taken as true, without further proof, in any subsequent civil litigation by or on behalf of the FTC to enforce its rights to any payment or monetary judgment pursuant to this Order, such as a nondischargeability complaint in any bankruptcy case.

Upon the filing of a petition for relief under the Bankruptcy Code by or against Defendant, or the filing of any similar federal or state insolvency proceeding by or against Defendant, the amount of $10,033,000,000, less (i) $42,670,723 earmarked for payment of loan balances with excess negative equity as of the date of the preliminary approval of this Order (but only to the extent of payments actually made), (ii) $26,000,000 earmarked to pay a portion of the remaining future lease payments previously owed to lessors by lessees opting for Lease Termination (but only to the extent of payments actually made), and (iii) the sum of the total amount of all Consumer Payments Defendant has made to benefit Eligible Consumers, shall become immediately due and payable.
 

banshee365

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 4, 2012
Location
FL
TDI
06 Jetta
I paid ~32,500 with taxes.

My buyout now with 32K miles is 31093.00

If I drive it till 2018, to the last bit of settlemet - I still get 29,000
The most benefical move for 15 owners, is to drive the hell out of it, then turn it in june 2018.


I just wish I could do that and get a new tdi wagon LOL
Do you drive much more than 1042 miles per month? If not you buyback value is frozen.
 

bballppaul

Active member
Joined
Jul 29, 2015
Location
Easthampton, MA
TDI
2015 Golf TDI S - Buyback, replaced with new 2015 GolfSportwagen S DSG
I own a 2015 Golf TDI 6MT. Frankly I don't think I'm being given the shaft at all. I bought my vehicle in June 2015. In that 13 months, I've put 30K miles on the car. I paid around 24K after taxes and registration for my vehicle. I think it was around 22K purchase price on the vehicle. My buyback offer (if I decided to take it) is $22,061. I'm a realist, and I know that as soon as a new vehicle rolls off the lot, it immediately can lose up to 20% it's value. I know the TDIs supposedly did better, but I went into my purchase expecting the 20% hit. Also, lets get real here, unless one gets a full purchase price refund on an item, I expect I'll never get the sales tax back. Think about it, every time a vehicle is sold (in MA at least, but many other states too), the buyer has to pay sales tax. So if a vehicle changes hands 4 times in its lifetime, MA will get sales tax on the value of the car at the sale each time! I guess I had no expectation of getting the sales tax back.

So, I am essentially am being offered back the sale price on a vehicle that I used for a year and put 30K miles on. Frankly, I am happy with that deal, and it at least makes me more likely to forgive VW in the future. I think what the company did was absolutely deplorable. I am less worried about NOx than the overall impact of fossil fuels (climate change, PM2.5 emissions, HC emissions), since the current levels of emissions have greatly improved their air quality in the US, but if you want to do business in the US, you better follow the law!

That said, I think VW makes great products. I've always loved the simplistic layout of the interior of German cars. It isn't messy. It's utilitarian, and I've always appreciated that over flashiness. I'm 99.9% sure I'm getting the fix. I'll get $6,165.93 for continuing to drive the car I love. Where else can I get a manual transmission vehicle that gets between 45-50mpg on the highway depending on the time of year? I can't. I love the driving experience I get.

VW did a bad thing, but that doesn't change the fact that I absolutely love the car. More than I've loved any other vehicle I've owned, besides the 2012 Triumph Street Triple that I sold 2 years ago. Just my long-winded opinion!!
 

showdown 42

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2012
Location
naples,FL
TDI
2016 TDI touareg
I'm with you bballpaul,love the car and will keep it till another TDI is available. Easy peasey. Anyone who thinks buying a car is an investment is from Colorado smoking something funny and I have a bridge for you to buy.
 

Borsig

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
Oct 22, 2009
Location
va
TDI
2015 Golf TDI SE, 2015 GSW SEL (buyback), 2011 JSW (sold)
Do you drive much more than 1042 miles per month? If not you buyback value is frozen.
30K a year. So yes I do.

Doesnt mean that it isnt by far the best deal - drive for 2 years and turn in then.
 

troms

Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2016
Location
SF Bay Area
TDI
2015 Golf Sportwagen TDI S
Hi, I'm new here. I bought a 2015 SW TDI S less than a month before the "scandal" was announced. I agree with some of the latest posters in this thread. I DEFINITELY PLAN TO KEEP MY CAR.

I've test-driven all the so-called peers of the current Golf. Some are cool cars, but in my opinion THERE IS SIMPLY NO CAR IN THE SAME CLASS AS THE GOLF TDI UNDER 35K (in the US anyway). I'm an adult. Flashing lights, plastic panels, parking assist, lane-keeping gizmos, not of any value to me. I don't want an iPad Mini on it's side, permanently and awkwardly mounted on my dash. I want a solid, well-built, thoughtfully designed DRIVER'S car.

I'm keeping my car for the following reasons:
There is no reasonable equivalent that I am aware of.
Pathetic lack of and dwindling availability of manual transmissions in this country. I thought I was just old and not open to the new auto-transmissions. I was wrong, they suck, including VW's DSG. When I went to drive 2016 GTI's last week, I couldn't BELIEVE the dealer when he said most of them are autos! Not criticizing, but I can't imagine why anyone (other than a rental company) would buy any flavor of Golf (or any 4-cylinder) with an auto transmission.
I can't get a 2016 SW or standard Golf manual with leatherette/leather interior.
I can't get an A3 wagon with a manual transmission.
Driving the competition surprisingly and strongly reinforced my original feeling that this is a special car.

I plan to drive it and enjoy it. If mechanical issues arise in the meantime, I'll have the option of selling it back. What VW got caught doing was really bad, but they are no exception. They are building the best cars regardless, and if mine passes emissions legit, I know for my money and purposes I already own by far the best car I can afford today. When a free E350 Wagon falls in my lap, maybe I'll feel otherwise.

Thanks for this forum.
 
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RollingCoal

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 4, 2015
Location
Md
TDI
2015 Golf Tdi SEL
I appreciate anyone's reasons for choosing to keep the car and do not seek to dismiss the validity of going with a fix for this model year.

None of the reasons for keeping the car and taking the fix, however good they may be, negate the fact that the buyback for the 2015s is based off flawed data and appears to nudge consumers towards taking the fix, a tactic which is outlined in the CAS as a major no-no for VW. It is 100% accurate that vehicles take a hit in value the second you take ownership. As I have shown, VW is choosing 29% depreciation from MSRP which is well beyond what 1 year depreciation would be, let alone a few months which is the case for most owners.
 
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grawk

Veteran Member
Joined
May 12, 2012
Location
Oak Ridge, TN
TDI
'14 JSW TDI (used)
I appreciate anyone's reasons for choosing to keep the car and do not seek to dismiss the validity of going with a fix for this model year.

None of the reasons for keeping the car and taking the fix, however good they may be, negate the fact that the buyback for the 2015s is based off flawed data and appears to nudge consumers towards taking the fix, a tactic which is outlined in the CAS as a major no-no for VW. It is 100% accurate that vehicles take a hit in value the second you take ownership. As I have shown, VW is choosing 29% depreciation from MSRP which is well beyond what 1 year depreciation would be, let alone a few months which is the case for most owners.
except the court agreed with the agreement as written (at least thus far, and likely to remain so, given everything that's gone on), so it's not in violation of the agreement.

Also given the number of people with 2015s that are accepting the buyback, it's a matter of perspective as to whether or not people feel like they're being screwed.
 

RollingCoal

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 4, 2015
Location
Md
TDI
2015 Golf Tdi SEL
The scenarios listed are all covered in the FTC settlement like:

The facts alleged in the Complaint will be taken as true, without further proof, in any subsequent civil litigation by or on behalf of the FTC to enforce its rights to any payment or monetary judgment pursuant to this Order, such as a nondischargeability complaint in any bankruptcy case.

Upon the filing of a petition for relief under the Bankruptcy Code by or against Defendant, or the filing of any similar federal or state insolvency proceeding by or against Defendant, the amount of $10,033,000,000, less (i) $42,670,723 earmarked for payment of loan balances with excess negative equity as of the date of the preliminary approval of this Order (but only to the extent of payments actually made), (ii) $26,000,000 earmarked to pay a portion of the remaining future lease payments previously owed to lessors by lessees opting for Lease Termination (but only to the extent of payments actually made), and (iii) the sum of the total amount of all Consumer Payments Defendant has made to benefit Eligible Consumers, shall become immediately due and payable.
except the court agreed with the agreement as written (at least thus far, and likely to remain so, given everything that's gone on), so it's not in violation of the agreement.
Also given the number of people with 2015s that are accepting the buyback, it's a matter of perspective as to whether or not people feel like they're being screwed.
The court gave preliminary approval based off the whole picture of the settlement. I really doubt if they had seen that the buy back for the 2015 model year was based off 29% depreciation they would be fine with it. You can spin it how ever you want to make it seem like a great deal, even if the court signs off as it is. The fact is every other year got a buyback value based off of a fair third parties estimated value. The 2015 models with no NADA value got a value that seems to be skewed towards owners taking the remediation which is likely VW's preference over the consumers. Case in point is every non 2015 owner in this thread talking about how keeping the car is the better deal, the better option in general. It doesn't matter if the fix is a good deal or not. I don't see a single person coming out saying that 29% depreciation makes sense or is based off the reality of the vehicles value as of September last year.
 

troms

Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2016
Location
SF Bay Area
TDI
2015 Golf Sportwagen TDI S
For the record, I certainly don't disagree with your concerns about the buyback calculations. I guess in my meandering rant I neglected to mention that I personally think the buyback offer is not that bad for 2015s, but relative to past model offers it's not the jackpot that some people initially thought.

Regardless of everything, we are being inconvenienced and I believe we are absolutely not being made whole plus restitution in this case. That is another point leading me to keeping the car, even just for practical reasons. I'm just not so sure that VW really owes me anymore than they've offered. If along the way it appears that selling it back is the clear choice, I will hopefully have driven the hell out of the car for maybe 3 years. At that point I believe the buyback offer makes more sense for me. Here's hoping we'll be presented with hard-to-refuse incentives to buy another VW/Audi.

Aside from people angry with VW choosing not to do biz with them anymore, it's surprising to me that there would be a high percentage of 2015 owners choosing the buyback.
 

grawk

Veteran Member
Joined
May 12, 2012
Location
Oak Ridge, TN
TDI
'14 JSW TDI (used)
I still fail to see how getting the car free for a year and getting all your money back, or getting a free fix and $7k is a raw deal. If you don't want the reduced performance of the car, and don't want to just keep it, you get a full refund. If you don't mind a reduction in performance, because it's still the best combination of things available for that style vehicle, then you get $7k. If you want the car you paid for, you get the car you paid for.
 

bizzle

Veteran Member
Joined
May 21, 2013
Location
Southern California
TDI
2015 GSW SEL (totaled), 2013 Touareg Executive
The court gave preliminary approval based off the whole picture of the settlement. I really doubt if they had seen that the buy back for the 2015 model year was based off 29% depreciation they would be fine with it.
I don't understand how you realistically believe a bevy of lawyers haven't "seen" the offer in the documents they've drafted over the course of months :rolleyes:

More to the point, however, the "court" is not a party to the negotiations. You seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding of the Court's role in this (and any other) case. The judge is not there to sift through the minutia of the case, but rather to ensure the rules are followed and a decision, once reached, is carried out appropriately. He is not a party to the case. His opinion about whether 2015 owners are getting a better or worse deal than 2014 owners is largely irrelevant.
 

solBLACK

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 1, 2015
Location
Wisconsin
TDI
2015 Golf TDI SE
I still fail to see how getting the car free for a year and getting all your money back, or getting a free fix and $7k is a raw deal. If you don't want the reduced performance of the car, and don't want to just keep it, you get a full refund. If you don't mind a reduction in performance, because it's still the best combination of things available for that style vehicle, then you get $7k. If you want the car you paid for, you get the car you paid for.
Two problems. First, not everyone who has a '15 is getting ALL their money back. I'm going with the fix because I'm getting over 2k less than what I paid for it if I take the buyback. Second, no one who has purchased a TDI since '09 has got the car they paid for. They're good vehicles, but you purchased a lie.
 

grawk

Veteran Member
Joined
May 12, 2012
Location
Oak Ridge, TN
TDI
'14 JSW TDI (used)
$2k for a year's driving is the cheapest lease ever. But I'm glad one of the 3 options was acceptable to you.
 

troms

Member
Joined
Jul 28, 2016
Location
SF Bay Area
TDI
2015 Golf Sportwagen TDI S
I still fail to see how getting the car free for a year and getting all your money back, or getting a free fix and $7k is a raw deal. If you don't want the reduced performance of the car, and don't want to just keep it, you get a full refund. If you don't mind a reduction in performance, because it's still the best combination of things available for that style vehicle, then you get $7k. If you want the car you paid for, you get the car you paid for.

I think people are viewing this situation in very different ways. Some seem to be emotional and feel let down by VW. I feel like I got the car I wanted. I agree with you that for all practical purposes, hopefully the only difference down the road will be $7000 in my pocket. The emissions situation is between VW and government/regulatory bodies. I want to be compensated for trips to the dealership, inconvenience, and of course if the car turns out to be different than what I wanted performance-wise (thus the reasonably open-ended offer to sell it back), but without all the hysterical press looking for the next OJ I don't think many people would be complaining about their vehicles. If I can't legally drive the car someday, or if it's emissions are never acceptable, then yes I'll expect to be taken care of accordingly. VW got caught doing something really bad. They make great cars.

I absolutely understand people's problems with being lied to. That is a valid, black & white issue. In my opinion the emissions numbers are not. Among the vehicles on the road today, I'm pretty sure 2009+ TDIs wouldn't even make a top 20 list of gross polluters. Business practices leading up to this situation, although not all that unique, were obviously unacceptable.

By the way, I was intentionally lied to when I bought mine by the dealership in CHERRY HILL NJ. They let me drive off the lot, deliberately offering deceptive answers to questions like, "Where are the 2016s?" I even eventually found body damage they successfully masked temporarily. They did a great job hiding it. Would have taken about the same amount of effort to fix it. They were put in a bad position for sure, BUT THEY DELIBERATELY LIED TO ME to unload their final TDI wagon (not by cutting me a deal, by the way). I'm much more angry at them, criminals of opportunity, as they made the choice to deceive me, face to face, man to man, on a handshake. I repeat, CHERRY HILL NJ.
 
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