It drives like a gasser lately...

Toronto_Vento

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 7, 2002
Location
Richmond Hill, ON
TDI
01 Baltic Green Bora
Hey everyone. I haven't been sharing some of the issues (minor) with the car lately, but this last one has me a little stumped and I haven't had much time to try and diagnose it much.

First the background:
The car started having low power issues starting at the end of January. I drove the car around a few times and figured out that one of my injectors was leaking. Fine, pulled it and re-sealed (new crush washer). It drove fine for about a week, and then low power again. Another injector leaking. I also noticed at this point that I had a lot of oil seeping out from the valve cover. I re-sealed the second leaky injector. While under the hood, I noticed some oil seepage from the valve cover above injector 1 (first from the left when looking at the engine). I pulled this injector (it was stuck in there good...I see why Nigel has that injector puller). The seating hole was interesting: full of sand and the crush washer was seized to the block. Well, after some careful work, I got the crush washer out and replaced it. Good news: no more leaking from the valve cover.
So, I decided to do some test drives to make sure everything was okay. Things seemed to be fine at the time, but I noticed my timing was off. (slightly retarded). So, I adjusted it and things seem great. Well, at least I thought it did. When I was test driving the car, I was looking for power to be back but used 2500+ rpm to test it.

Fast forward to lately:

I was driving with my wife and she was telling me that the car lacked power. I tested it again, and now the car drives kind of like a gasser. There isn't as big a kick of power down low, but as the RPMs climb, the power comes online and the car pulls great. I tested the MAF a few weeks ago and everything seemed okay on Vag-Com (I'm old-school). I did the actuator test, and the rod is moving.
Here is my setup: B203 injector bodies with PP520 nozzles, and a rocketchip 2/3 (set to 2) tune. I have a boost gauge and it seems a little funny, but nothing way out there. If I push the accelerator hard, I'll hit 15 or so psi right away, and then boost will build as RPMs/power builds.

Anyhow, I was wondering if anyone has run into issues like this and if they might have a solution for it. I haven't tested the MAF/timing in the past short while, but I see no reason why things would be off this much. I did also adjust IQ at the time to get rid of a slow down shudder, but it's still at 3.2. Any suggestions would be appreciated. I have a feeling I might have to pull all injectors again to see if I can find the culprit. I may also have to pull the glowplugs as I recently changed those. Just looking for other possible causes.

While this car has been reliable in terms of starting and driving to destinations, I've had so many little quirks with it lately. I'm not in a position to get rid of it, nor do I really contemplate the option, but I am getting a little frustrated with how finiky things have been on the car lately. My MK3 was much more rock solid than this. Anyhow...that's my three sentence rant.

Edit: sorry for the long post, and thanks for reading it all the way through.
 

LNXGUY

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 10, 2004
Location
Barrie, Ont, Canada
TDI
'05 Jetta TDI Wagon
John, how hot is the pump after a good run?

I wonder if it's pulling timing because of fuel temp...

(Just a shot in the dark)
 

Wingnut

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 10, 2002
Location
Toronto & Whitby
TDI
Silver 2003 Jetta Wagon
When I had my RC 3/4 switchable, the 3 was in the Auto MAP. It behaved differently than the RC4 which was in the Manual MAP. I didn't like the way it behaved in RC3, so I stayed with 4 all the time. Try to switch to RC3 and see if it makes a difference.
 

craig01b

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 17, 2004
Location
Guelph, Ontario.
TDI
None
Cruise control sag??? That points to a pooched maf...well, in my experience anyways. Not much more to that to go on...update...most of us are quick readers anyways.

c
 

Toronto_Vento

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 7, 2002
Location
Richmond Hill, ON
TDI
01 Baltic Green Bora
Nothing wrong with cruise control. Car will sit at requested speed on the highway. Nigel, I'll try your suggestion, but stage 2 is in manual mode, stage 3 is in automatic mode. Maybe there's a hicup in the ECU or something and switching some settings will do it some good.

Bill, I haven't really tried to feel the pump after driving around so not sure. The timing belt was done at the beginning of last summer and Brandon set it slightly advanced. You may actually have a point about the temp sensor, though. I have to take another look at the timing plot but I swear the plot was shifted to the left compared to other times I had done a reading.

Hopefully I'll get a chance to take the car out in the next few days and do some quick diagnosis again. Does anyone know what measuring block fuel temp would show up on? I'll also try and take a picture of the timing graph if it seems shifted to me.
 

P2B

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Location
Toronto & Muskoka, Canada
TDI
2002 Jetta, 2003 Jetta, 2003 Jetta Wagon
Have you logged MAF and MAP at WOT? Always a good place to start on low power issues.

No codes I assume? How's your injector balance (block 13)?

Simon
 

TDI'ed

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2009
Location
Stouffville ON
TDI
2005 Golf TDI
Sounds like the boost creep I was having before, but since you are running an alh that is unlikely. Have you checked your vacuum lines and brake booster for cracks etc? Shouldn't your tune be requesting 18 sustained? I think a map and maf log are required here for a proper picture of what is happening.
 

Toronto_Vento

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 7, 2002
Location
Richmond Hill, ON
TDI
01 Baltic Green Bora
No codes. Just after installing the nozzles, the nozzles were between +0.4 and -0.25 (block 13). I did a graph of MAF while at WOT and during acceleration and it didn't seem to track incorrectly. I'll have to get out and do some runs this weekend and get back to everyone.
 

Toronto_Vento

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 7, 2002
Location
Richmond Hill, ON
TDI
01 Baltic Green Bora
Update: I drove downtown today so I did some measuring. I took a snapshot of my injector balance and timing. (below) Both are within spec. I did a log of a WOT run of the MAF & MAP, but I haven't processed the file into a graph or anything yet. Will post that soon.



 

Toronto_Vento

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 7, 2002
Location
Richmond Hill, ON
TDI
01 Baltic Green Bora
Another Update: I grabbed the "diagnostic laptop" and pulled the log file. Graphed it in excel and am posting the charts. They are labelled, so you can figure out which one is which. I do have some more data, but these are the requested WOT data. I do have some overboost which I am attempting to control with a boost valve, but I think the actuator (while the rod does move properly) isn't functioning (or vanes are stuck). There is a dip in the peak of the graph as I shift from 3rd to 4th.

If anything else should be logged, let me know. I don't see much overly alarming in the charts, but I admit I'm not versed in interpreting these numbers. In case you can't read the legend, red is specified, green is actual.



 

Toronto_Vento

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 7, 2002
Location
Richmond Hill, ON
TDI
01 Baltic Green Bora
Driving around today, it honestly might be that my car had issues BEFORE and I got used to how it drives. I hope I don't have to change much, as this tank has pretty good mileage (considering a lot of shorter trips), the car is smooth, and seems to drive otherwise okay.

I switched programing to stage 3 for my drive home from downtown. Hoping to exercise the turbo vanes a little.

To answer some questions posed earlier:
Bill, I took a look at the fuel temp after driving the car for ~40 min and it showed 27 degrees, so I'm assuming that's okay.
TDI'ed: my tune is actually supposed to hold at 16 psi (mild - stage 2), but the stage 3 is supposed to hold at 18 psi. With the overboost issue, the boost valve is controlling the max boost to around 18-19 for both stages.
 
Last edited:

VDUB TECH

Vendor , w/Business number
Joined
May 8, 2007
Location
2875 old Barrie rd east Orillia
TDI
2003 Jetta wagon TDI , Audi TT TDI Q , 2013 Touareg TDI , 2006 Jetta TDI
John do you have egr delete tune?Do you have the egr valve on?It might be stuck open slightly which would cause no low-end power and no faults with RC.just take a peek in there it should be fully closed.
 

Toronto_Vento

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 7, 2002
Location
Richmond Hill, ON
TDI
01 Baltic Green Bora
EGR delete is part of the RC tune. I have also made a stealth race pipe, so the EGR guts have been removed and all holes sealed off. I all hoses hooked up as if it's functioning (hence the stealth part). Maybe I'll play around and see if the EGR has something to do with it.
 

Toronto_Vento

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 7, 2002
Location
Richmond Hill, ON
TDI
01 Baltic Green Bora
Bah! I think I have to go through my boost system one day. I was playing around with stage 3 and it pulls pretty hard. I did note, though that my max boost seems to be around 16 psi even after playing with the boost valve. The system will spike to "danger" territory if I play with the boost valve too much, though. So, stage 3 and it does hold 15-16, but won't stay above that for WOT.

I really do think there is something with the fueling going on, though. When I got the car in 2006, the setup was pretty much the same, but when I was at WOT, I'd get a good smoke cloud behind me. I recently had the IQ at 1.8, and I can still only get a wisp of smoke. I know there are people on the board who can smoke like a freight train, so I don't know why that's the way it is on this car now.

I have always had a starting problem where it would take a few extra cranks (3-5 extra cranks) to start the car compared to an equivalent model. I'm curious if there's an IP issue or something. Meh, today I had a bit of time to fiddle around with Vag-Com: not sure when I'll have time next.

Three weeks of classes left, so lots of projects to finish and final exams to study for.
 

Toronto_Vento

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 7, 2002
Location
Richmond Hill, ON
TDI
01 Baltic Green Bora
Hey everyone: quick update.

I finally had some time to do a little more detailed diagnostic work on the car. Luckily the issues were fairly easy to fix once diagnosed. All injectors are sealing quite well, but two glow plugs weren't sealing properly. Took a drive and honestly didn't feel a difference.

Back under the hood! At idle I noticed a bit of "fizz" in the clear fuel line going to the IP. Okay, not ideal, but from what I've read, it can be common for some to have this. It then occurred to me to try revving the engine and watch the fuel line. BINGO! LOTS of air upon increasing RPMs. I have a CAT fuel filter and fought with it yesterday and today to get it to seal properly. I finally got it all sealing up fine and the car once again has it's power back and pulls just fine.

Thanks to everyone who read/replied to the thread! I wanted to post a solution in case anyone else has funny driving problems.
 

craig01b

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 17, 2004
Location
Guelph, Ontario.
TDI
None
Wow, that is quite a find. Any of the times I have seen an airleak into fuel system, its rather all or nothing. Interesting...

Craig
 

Toronto_Vento

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Nov 7, 2002
Location
Richmond Hill, ON
TDI
01 Baltic Green Bora
Yeah, I was a little surprised myself. It seemed that the car had enough fuel at idle, but was starved for fuel on increasing RPM. The car isn't perfect, but is much better than it was. I noticed a slight harder start today when my wife started the car, but the fuel line has no air. The car had a slight harder start today, but that's the way things were when I bought the car.
 

LNXGUY

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jan 10, 2004
Location
Barrie, Ont, Canada
TDI
'05 Jetta TDI Wagon
Good news John!

You still have that special tool we used to hammer my pump? I gotta increase the IQ..........again, lol..
 
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