Is VW cheating us?

2013passat

Active member
Joined
Nov 11, 2012
Location
California
TDI
2013 SE Passat
I bought a truck about three months ago, painted it, cleaned it, and remarketed it. I had a maximum of $3000 into the truck, I sold it for $12,000, profit with easy math, $9000. Then I traded in a different truck I had $6500 into for the passat tdi. They gave me a trade in value of $16,500, and sold me the passat for $600 under invoice. My point here, CAPITOLISM WORKS. I basically had a small handfull of people, and the dealer pay for my car. I sold a truck for $9000 profit, and made another $10,000 on the trade in. I had a couple other low profit trucks that paid off the balance of the new car. The only downside is, I loose my profit with every mile I drive. Point number two, if you don't like the price of someone else's stuff, no ones forcing you to buy it. Yes, that is a 100% true story btw.
 

mrchill

TDIClub Enthusiast, Super Secret Diesel Ninja Vend
Joined
Sep 16, 2003
Location
MASS! home of THE WORLD SERIES CHAMPION RED SOX! x
TDI
96 B4v red \ 98 Mk3 green\98 Mk3 Jetta black\ 99 Mk4 Jetta green x2\ 99 Mk4 Golf silver x2\ 99 Mk4 Jetta black\ 97 B4 sedan green\04 JSW gold\03 JSW silver
I dont believe VW is cheating us. We are not entitled to any of their profits unless we are shareholders. What it cost to build the NMS versus what they charge is not important. At the time you purchased the car, clearly it seemed a good deal. Why change your mind based on your perception that they are making too much on the sale of the car? Are you saying you know how much it cost them all in to produce your car? I would assert that the profit isnt as great as you may think. In addition, the older passat stripped down(I have owned 10) are in fact not better than the new passat stripped down. They just were not...and didnt even look as good as the new ones. I have owned many Audis and I like them a lot...but can any of us buy an Audi thats even close to the NMS for even 10k more?....actually no. ANd if its a Tdi...it currently cannot be had at even 15k more.

In short...no one was cheated. Its too bad you feel that way, but I have been a VW buyer for 30 years. And have owned well over 100 VW cars. I am also not alone in that. At no time did I feel I wasnt getting a value from VW products. Otherwise....I wouldnt buy them.
 
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Rico567

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Jun 13, 2003
Location
Central IL
TDI
2013 Passat TDI SEL Premium (Turned in 7/7/18)
LOL! VW stated that moving production to the US would drop the price. It really did not based on what I see, so I pointed it out to see if anyone else noticed.

By the way, I am not looking for the cheapest, I am looking at the VALUE of what you get for the money. To me a bloated, de-contented interior is not a value to me.

I will go Audi instead. Still VAG but true German made product for the price.
So.....the comparable Audi platform to the Passat would be the A6, and you're willing to take a $20K bump for a better interior and a few more gadgets (I'll give you a better NAV system)? I'd love to buy an A6, but I can't justify that.
 

TDI2000Zim

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 23, 2010
Location
NJ
TDI
VW hat meinen '14 Passat TDiSE getötet.
And the Passat is not only $20K cheaper than an Audi, it compares well even to Mercedes Benz and BMWs.

In fact, I suspect that the new Passat TDi is the 'Audi Fox' of this generation:

http://www.zdnet.com/volkswagen-passat-tdi-is-todays-car-of-the-future-7000000591/

Which means, look for this car to be this cheap only in this decade. The market value of this car is going to rise sharply in a couple of years.
 

TDIMeister

Phd of TDIClub Enthusiast, Moderator at Large
Joined
May 1, 1999
Location
Canada
TDI
TDI
All imported products are also based on a hedged exchange rate and retail prices are not reflected necessarily in current rates or subject to the whims of relatively short-term fluctuations. As has been noted by others too, companies exploit more favourable exchange rates to them as higher profitability than pass lower costs to customers. Prices are quicker to adjust upward to more expensive exchange and almost never downward to cheaper rates.
 

TomB

Veteran Member
Joined
May 1, 2003
Location
Cle Elum, Washington/Las Vegas, Nevada
TDI
2015 Audi TDI Prestige Sport
I think the Passat has good value, too. Sorry Tom - not sure what you're so upset about.
Bottom line, this car in no way compares to the fit, finish, and overall quality of the 2005 Passat TDI's I have. That is what bugs me.

It fails to match the current VW's in Germany too. I paid $6,000 more for a car that does NOT meet the level of quality I a used to from VW.

Perhaps, it is because others are coming from the Mexico made Jetta that they do not notice this.

I would be curious about how many people coming from the 2005 Passat TDI are enthusiasts for the 2012 Passat TDI. What is their opinion?
 

TomB

Veteran Member
Joined
May 1, 2003
Location
Cle Elum, Washington/Las Vegas, Nevada
TDI
2015 Audi TDI Prestige Sport
Did VW say it would lower the car's price, or that it would lower the manufacturer's costs? Very different things. And it's also far more complex than the exchange rate. Two examples: Many Passat components from from Euro currency countries, and VW has the huge capital cost of a new plant in Tennessee to recover. Who knows what currencies they use to pay their bills, either.

As others have posted, cars are priced at levels that makes them market competitive. What the car costs to build is almost irrelevant. Margins on the NMS might be higher than they were on the B6. Just like they're probably higher on a Jetta sedan than a Golf.

Re-stating prices based on exchange rates is somewhat bogus anyway. The example that always bugs me is "in the UK people pay $7.50 per gallon for diesel." Well, no, they don't. They may pay 1 pound 41 for a liter, but how they compare that price to income levels, how much fuel they use, what other items cost, and so on may make the comparison between US and other currencies meaningless.

I always felt that I was getting acquainted with another currency when I stopped converting. When I could look at an item and say it was worth a Euro or Pound without thinking about the conversion to dollars, I knew I was getting adjusted.

Rambling aside, don't even think about exchange rates. Look at the car, compare it to others, think about what you can afford. And buy it, or don't.
They sold it as "US consumers will not pay the higher prices that are influenced by the exchange rate of the Euro, so in order to make it more affordable they will move production to the US to avoid that cost."

This is from an email about 3 years ago, when I queried the manager of Sales at my VW dealership. They could not sell the Passat once the Jetta became the same size in 2007-2008. Even the re-branded CC model only sold because it was OVER Contented with all the extras.

I am comparing, that is why I posted....
 

TDIMeister

Phd of TDIClub Enthusiast, Moderator at Large
Joined
May 1, 1999
Location
Canada
TDI
TDI
With all due respect, if you didn't like it the price/value ratio being offered, you didn't have to buy it in the first place.
 

tdireader

Veteran Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2004
Location
USA
TDI
TDI
Simple Capitalism... nothing more, nothing less. VW offers you a good... wanna buy it? Here's how much it's gonna cost ya. Why is that so difficult?
I don't think it is just simple capitalism. A great percentage of VW's market is not in the US.

I've driven GM rental vehicles in California and could not see w/ my rear view mirror during night time driving at a stop light given all the large amount of exhaust smoke. This only happened when it was colder than 60F but it still reminded me of a 1970's vehicle. This car still passed emissions in a CARB state since it was designed for the US market.

I suspect a lot of politics goes on behind the scenes to target an emissions set that differs from the rest of the world. This protects market share of legacy GM/Ford/Toyota/Honda platform components. The same principle can be applied to safety and other certifications, parts content, tariffs, etc.

Regulations can be a nice market barrier to protect against competition. Toyota and Honda have been playing the assembly game for some time. VW had decided to use Mexico but now I think they are realising that they need political muscle to bring down regulatory costs.
 

TomB

Veteran Member
Joined
May 1, 2003
Location
Cle Elum, Washington/Las Vegas, Nevada
TDI
2015 Audi TDI Prestige Sport
So.....the comparable Audi platform to the Passat would be the A6, and you're willing to take a $20K bump for a better interior and a few more gadgets (I'll give you a better NAV system)? I'd love to buy an A6, but I can't justify that.
Yes, I will go for better quality. I am not looking at the gadget level, I am looking at the practical.

This Passat has too many rattles (rear deck and overhead storage), a lousy nav/audio/display/Bluetooth system, cheap dinamica inserts that are showing wear after 9K miles, the DSG can't even handle reverse on a hill, the tires spin on starting on an wet incline, the brakes over grip, they came with Hankooks that the sidewalls fall apart, I am already hearing the VW wind noise normally associated with 20K miles of driving.

Anyone who reads my last 6 years of postings in the B5.5 section will understand I am usually the VW DEFENDER. Unfortunately I bought a first year new production line product on the faith of past VW experience and I feel it was a mistake.

I am not a Honda or Toyota buyer so comparing this Passat to those lines proves my point that VW has changed and left me behind. Sorry guys it happens and I am just voicing that concern.
 

compu_85

Gadget Guy
Joined
Sep 29, 2003
Location
La Conner, WA
TDI
... None :S
Yes, those B5 passats with their 8 ball joints, chain drive balance shafts, leaking AC plenums, ceasing trunk hinges, combustible seat heaters, and plugging sunroof drains were a model of of reliability ;)

The rattle in the rear deck is easy to fix, and I find the bluetooth system works fantastic in our car. I think the fit / finish on the Passat is great... yes it has less trim than a B5 or A4, but that means there's also less to fail (like the door gasket trims are in my 99.5 now).

-J
 

IndigoBlueWagon

TDIClub Enthusiast, Principal IDParts, Vendor , w/
Joined
Aug 16, 2004
Location
South of Boston
TDI
'97 Passat, '99.5 Golf, '02 Jetta Wagon, '15 GSW
They sold it as "US consumers will not pay the higher prices that are influenced by the exchange rate of the Euro, so in order to make it more affordable they will move production to the US to avoid that cost."
Yes, and you don't know what the new Passat would cost today if it were built overseas. Or if VW would limit exports (as they appear to with the Golf) because margins are too low when the exchange rate is unfavorable.

It's hard to compare prices between countries because tax structures vary. But if you want some sticker shock take a look at www.vw.co.uk.
 

South Coast Guy

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 17, 2010
Location
Mattapoisett, MA
TDI
2009 Jetta TDI wagon
Back in the early seventies, exchange rates went from 4 marks to the dollar to 2 marks to the dollar. VW increased the price of their cars by 50%. I remember purchasng a bug for @$1800. Next year it was $2700. What do you think happened to sales?
 

ruking

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Mar 27, 2003
Location
San Jose area, CA
TDI
2003 VW Jetta, 5 M, Reflex Silver: 09 Jetta, 6 Sp DSG, Candy White: 12 VW Touareg, 8 Sp A/T, Flint Gray
Yes, and you don't know what the new Passat would cost today if it were built overseas. Or if VW would limit exports (as they appear to with the Golf) because margins are too low when the exchange rate is unfavorable.

It's hard to compare prices between countries because tax structures vary. But if you want some sticker shock take a look at www.vw.co.uk.

I just ran some rough figures on VW Touareg. It is hard to also COMPLAIN when you see the figures (converted into USD FROM BPS) side by side. Quick and dirty on a three year 6.8% loan (36 mo maximum I got a ZERO % @ 60 mo) is app 56% (converted) more on the asset and 6.8% per year more on the loan ! ?
 
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