IP Pump Tear Down and Seal Replacement, Bench DIY

pkhoury

That guy with the goats
Joined
Nov 30, 2010
Location
Medina, TX
TDI
2013 JSW, 2 x 2002 Golf, 1995 F450 7.3L
Thank you. Yeah I've had to do a lot of driveway work on the Cummins since that thing won't fit halfway in my garage. It's always an adventure with the elements when that happens. The vise is kind of critical for the tear down, need to somehow be able to get a grip on the thing.
I sympathize - same deal with my 1995 F-450 (with a 7.3. of course). I wouldn't mind a 6BT someday, though.

Seeing the price of a rebuild from DFIS was really what made me go for this.
Dare I even ask how much?
I know I have the skills, it was more just I hadn't done it before. DFIS does great work and if you have the funds (I did, but I could spend them elsewhere if I tackled this project) they are the best money can buy. I actually ordered a couple of odds and ends for the pump from them as well since they can get all that Bosch stuff.
I've ordered both those triangle security screws as well as the fuel valves that go between the head and the fuel lines. Their prices were pretty reasonable for what I needed, though I get my viton seal kits from dieselgeek.
I was definitely intimidated of the project at first, then found some documentation of the internals and thought "this is all just mechanical". So long as things came out and went back in the same way, everything would be good. Once I started getting in there, it was cake. Just have to take precautions and remove things in order, document, and refer to your documentation to put them back in. Honestly setting the plunger height at the end when you have to put the sprocket flange back on was the easy part.
I'm very much mechanically inclined and good with tools, but not only the lack of sufficient desk/work bench space (and a clean area - the only are I have to set up a work bench both collect MASSIVE amounts of dust on a weekly basis), but a video would be amazing for me. Write ups like yours are totally invaluable, but to actually see it on a video for me, seals the deal. Just how I learn, I guess (I've always been this way).
 

KrashDH

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 22, 2013
Location
Washington
TDI
2002 Golf
I sympathize - same deal with my 1995 F-450 (with a 7.3. of course). I wouldn't mind a 6BT someday, though.



Dare I even ask how much?

I've ordered both those triangle security screws as well as the fuel valves that go between the head and the fuel lines. Their prices were pretty reasonable for what I needed, though I get my viton seal kits from dieselgeek.


I'm very much mechanically inclined and good with tools, but not only the lack of sufficient desk/work bench space (and a clean area - the only are I have to set up a work bench both collect MASSIVE amounts of dust on a weekly basis), but a video would be amazing for me. Write ups like yours are totally invaluable, but to actually see it on a video for me, seals the deal. Just how I learn, I guess (I've always been this way).
There are are couple good videos out there on YouTube if you search, but both have their shortcomings.

If you ordered from DFIS, and you plan on rebuilding, you also want to purchase the metal gaskets for each side of the housing that cover/house the barrel that the roller cage pin slides into. They are black in color but it's just the coating. One of the cover caps is under spring tension, the cap 180* from it is just flat and rectangular shaped, with one side being an arc
 

STDOUBT

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 30, 2007
Location
Portland, effing Oregon
TDI
dos jettas
Just re-found this thread, and very much appreciate it.
As time goes on, we are more and more at the mercy of our own self-reliance for keeping these cars rolling.
I took the Liberty of compiling this tutorial into a PDF for the community.
I added a couple useful pics, corrected a couple typos, added a disclaimer, and cropped a couple pics.
I originally just saved the page as a PDF, but that ended up being over 200 MB.
So I thought, yep, this needs to be PDF'd. Now it weighs in at under 30 MB.
Get it in "Resources". Turns out it's too large for "Resources" or "Media" so...
Here it is offsite: https://files.catbox.moe/13cwvx.pdf

If anyone has a better host or ideally a way to host it on TDIClub, I am all ears.
Thanks, again Krash!
 

KrashDH

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 22, 2013
Location
Washington
TDI
2002 Golf
Just re-found this thread, and very much appreciate it.
As time goes on, we are more and more at the mercy of our own self-reliance for keeping these cars rolling.
I took the Liberty of compiling this tutorial into a PDF for the community.
I added a couple useful pics, corrected a couple typos, added a disclaimer, and cropped a couple pics.
I originally just saved the page as a PDF, but that ended up being over 200 MB.
So I thought, yep, this needs to be PDF'd. Now it weighs in at under 30 MB.
Get it in "Resources". Turns out it's too large for "Resources" or "Media" so...
Here it is offsite: https://files.catbox.moe/13cwvx.pdf

If anyone has a better host or ideally a way to host it on TDIClub, I am all ears.
Thanks, again Krash!
Appreciate you taking the time to compile everything.
 

KrashDH

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 22, 2013
Location
Washington
TDI
2002 Golf
Amazing write up. Can this gasket be replaced with the pump in place?
Not sure why you're trying to replace that one? It's not really a leak source. Plus that's where your plunger is and the entire interface to the pump and it's timing. Personally, if you have to pull that for some reason, do it off the car so it's properly dis and re assembled.
 

Maximus659

Member
Joined
Jun 11, 2022
Location
London uk
TDI
Tdi converted t4
Not sure why you're trying to replace that one? It's not really a leak source. Plus that's where your plunger is and the entire interface to the pump and it's timing. Personally, if you have to pull that for some reason, do it off the car so it's properly dis and re assembled.
Looked like fuel was leaking from it. I guess it’s running down from somewhere else.
 

superhl

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 21, 2017
Location
27534
TDI
2002 new beetle
You gave me a headache! Nice job! How about doing a video and explaining as go along. I would pay for that. Lots of details. Scared to try it without a video!
 
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superhl

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 21, 2017
Location
27534
TDI
2002 new beetle
I understand and you have done a great job explaining but doing something like this for the first time nothing like pictures and a video. Sending my pump to DFIS today. I have a 1.9 TDI from a 2002 VW New Beetle. It originally had130,000 miles; now has 190,000. I drive it a lot and scared if I do this I might leave out something and end up stranded beside the road. It much easier for me to see a video.
 

KrashDH

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 22, 2013
Location
Washington
TDI
2002 Golf
I understand and you have done a great job explaining but doing something like this for the first time nothing like pictures and a video. Sending my pump to DFIS today. I have a 1.9 TDI from a 2002 VW New Beetle. It originally had130,000 miles; now has 190,000. I drive it a lot and scared if I do this I might leave out something and end up stranded beside the road. It much easier for me to see a video.
They won't do you wrong
 

pyromancer

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 27, 2013
Location
Seattle, WA
TDI
2001 Jetta TDI
Thanks so much for this write up it is great! In the process of rebuilding two 11mm pumps and noticed couple interesting things.
Now, this keyway is not used for the flange, but it's orientation is critical. If you look just outside of the shaft seal (orange) at about the 10:00 position, you'll see a marking on the face of the housing. This key SHOULD be aligned center with that mark. All of the disassembly and re-assembly should be done with the shaft in this position to ensure everything is clocked correctly for a frame of reference:
First as you can see in my photos neither of these pumps align center with the mark and the keyway. More they align with top most edge of the keyway aligns to the mark, not convinced this is incorrect as both of these clock exactly the same. Perhaps there is some wiggle room in the alignment when reassembling? I did notice the "should" in all caps. I'm not to that stage yet just getting them broken down, and managed to pop the flanges off few min ago.

Second pump #2 does not have the a marking on the housing.
I don't know the history of these pumps, booth came out of a wrecking yard. It is possible that #2 was rebuilt at some point or had the shaft seal replaced and someone for some dumb reason filled that marking off of it. Best I can tell with my digital calipers both pumps have the same amount of material. That said if anyone runs into a pump without a marking like this, the marking clocks to the start of the bottom most edge of the support bit just in from the mounting bolt. Trying to show this best I can. I just made my own mark on pump #2 but hopefully this info helps someone else.




 
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KrashDH

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 22, 2013
Location
Washington
TDI
2002 Golf
Thanks so much for this write up it is great! In the process of rebuilding two 11mm pumps and noticed couple interesting things.


First as you can see in my photos neither of these pumps align center with the mark and the keyway. More they align with top most edge of the keyway aligns to the mark, not convinced this is incorrect as both of these clock exactly the same. Perhaps their is some wiggle room in the alignment when reassembling? I did notice the "should" in all caps. I'm not to that stage yet just getting them broken down, and managed to pop the flanges off few min ago.

Second pump #2 does not have the a marking on the housing.
I don't know the history of these pumps, booth came out of a wrecking yard. It is possible that #2 was rebuilt at some point or had the shaft seal replaced and someone for some dumb reason filled that marking off of it. Best I can tell with my digital calipers both pumps have the same amount of material. That said if anyone runs into a pump without a marking like this, the marking clocks to the start of the bottom most edge of the support bit just in from the mounting bolt. Trying to show this best I can. I just made my own mark on pump #2 but hopefully this info helps someone else.
Yeah that's why I basically mentioned should install of shall. Key is to see where it's located for a frame of reference when you are re installing the components, you want the shaft clocked approx in that location. What really matters is the plunger lift value. There's probably some stack up tolerance too between pumps.

I haven't seen a housing that doesn't have the notch, so maybe it's an aftermarket housing? They do sell replacement parts for these pumps so maybe a different supplier.

You are right though, you can mark on the housing where the keyway ends up.

Out of curiosity, where the shaft sits on those photos, is there any backlash? Ie if you stick an indicator in the head to measure the plunger lift, does the indicator needle immediately move, or does it say, not move until you turn it slightly clockwise (so mark might align center of key)? I'm just wondering if where you sit is slightly below the actual "bottom out" point
 

dieseldonato

Veteran Member
Joined
Mar 10, 2023
Location
Us
TDI
2001 jetta
I have a few manual ve pumps thay do not have the timing mark on them, 2 are gear drive not belt drive versions. As far as I can tell I could swap the housings to the vw housing and use all the vw guts. Possibly there was an issue with one of the cases and they used an older one?
 

pyromancer

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 27, 2013
Location
Seattle, WA
TDI
2001 Jetta TDI
Out of curiosity, where the shaft sits on those photos, is there any backlash? Ie if you stick an indicator in the head to measure the plunger lift, does the indicator needle immediately move, or does it say, not move until you turn it slightly clockwise (so mark might align center of key)? I'm just wondering if where you sit is slightly below the actual "bottom out" point
So the shaft is at initial resting point for both. Both of these have what is a semi flat spot. There is a bit of move in the middle of this flat spot but the other side of the flat aligns more like this on both. As in I could take the wrench off and the shaft would not move.
Also worth note was that 85 measurement is a bit tricky to get. The "flat spot" is pretty big and the difference in the dropping to rising on the gauge is really small. Might be able to chalk it up to the ebay gauge isn't something to write home about. I rocked it back and forth about 5 times before I decided both pumps where 85. I plan on measuring and marking the housing with a sharpie multiple times before I lock things down with the bolt to final set the pump.

I have a few manual ve pumps thay do not have the timing mark on them, 2 are gear drive not belt drive versions. As far as I can tell I could swap the housings to the vw housing and use all the vw guts. Possibly there was an issue with one of the cases and they used an older one?
I could take more photos, but the VW PN is stamped on the pump. The "labels" do look a bit different I was trying to figure out which was the newer pump as I am only going to run one of them. But I couldn't find that info online anywhere. I ultimately just decided to rebuild booth and choose the one that seemed to have the better guts, Without having them fully apart the one that doesn't have the mark actually seems smoother right now, leading me to wonder if it has had a rebuild. I'll try to remember to take photos of the PN tags and post them up.
 

spifflifkin

Veteran Member
Joined
May 11, 2003
Location
WA
TDI
2002 Golf
I haven't seen a housing that doesn't have the notch, so maybe it's an aftermarket housing? They do sell replacement parts for these pumps so maybe a different supplier.
Here's the aftermarket one I bought. It's allegedly a Bosch. This is the only one I've seen w/o a mark. Albeit, I haven't see that many.



I used a caliper to scribe a line on it (after this pic) measured from the ID of the lock pin hole based on the old housing.

It didn't have any engraving on the side either. It came with a blank data plate, rivets and a couple holes for the rivets.
 
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pyromancer

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 27, 2013
Location
Seattle, WA
TDI
2001 Jetta TDI
Here's the aftermarket one I bought. It's allegedly a Bosch. This is the only one I've seen w/o a mark. Albeit, I haven't see that many.
Does it have the raised Bosch on the side of the housing? I'm wondering if my unmarked might be an aftermarket pump. Like assembled with Bosch parts but not by Bosch. Wouldn't be hard to engrave the PNs on the side of a housing.

I'll know more about it's condition and internals tomorrow. I rebuilt the made in Germany pump today. I just need to retime the thing. It now feels and sounds like the other pump when you turn the shaft. I was thrown off by the bit about reinserting the shaft and the woodruff key. I ended up stripping out the whole shaft, key assembly, plate etc. and assembling it outside the pump trying to figure out what the hell I was doing wrong. After trying and failing about 10 times to get the shaft to drop in all the way flush. Turned out absolutely nothing. For the next person, If you're like me and don't remember when you get back to reassembly, the shaft sticks up a bit and is not flush with the plate behind it. You can not tell at all from a photo from straight down the housing. 🤦‍♂️ I'm hopeful I didn't flip any keys upside down in all my assembly and reassembly. Pump turns smooth.
 

spifflifkin

Veteran Member
Joined
May 11, 2003
Location
WA
TDI
2002 Golf
Does it have the raised Bosch on the side of the housing?
It does, on both sides. Does your unmarked one have the logo?
We have a laser engraver at work. I'll see if I can remember how to use it to engrave the p/n.
That key worries me too! I took it apart a few times to make sure it was correct.
 

pyromancer

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 27, 2013
Location
Seattle, WA
TDI
2001 Jetta TDI
It does, on both sides. Does your unmarked one have the logo?
It does you can see the side by side of the two pumps above. Both have the Bosch emboss on the sides. I made the comment about engraving PN because I wonder if the tag on that one was just engraved by the 3rd party manufacturer. It's slightly different than others I've seen.

Here you can see my plunger lift was about .0865". Factory from Bosch has this set to .085" nominal +/- a tolerance which I couldn't find:
Pretty sure it's +/- .05 based on the bellow quote and that linked blog list the same tolerance for a bunch of older vw pumps https://vincewaldon.com/2008/10/01/how-to-set-the-injection-pump-timing/
Now rotate the shaft a little each way until you can verify the hydraulic head plunger is at BDC and zero your indicator hear. Now rotate the shaft clockwise until you get .85mm plunger lift; tighten your shaft locking bolt (the long 10mm bolt referenced in the original post) just enough to hold the shaft in this exact position (don't overtighten this bolt). Remove the two nuts that you turned the shaft with, clean the shaft and hub tapers very well (I usually lightly scuff the tapers with some 320 grit sandpaper just to be sure, then rinse it again with brake cleaner). Now install your hub and nut loosley, then insert your timing lock pin through the hub and into the pump housing (just like you were installing the pump on the engine. Now you can snug up the hub nut just enough to start to lock it onto the shaft (don't torque the nut yet because you will bend your timing lock pin and/or damage to pump housing. Remove the locking pin now and using the proper hub holding tool, torque the nut to 59 foot lbs and loosen the 10 mm shaft tension bolt (could have been removed after your pre-torque).

To recheck your work just rotate the hub until the hub alignment pin can be inserted fully and verify that your plunger lift is .85 mm plus or minus .05mm.

This above is the proper procedure to index the hub according to Bosch and is how it is done in a diesel fuel injection repair facility (and is the ONLY 100% correct way to do it). I am not trying to come across as a know-it-all, but I have worked in the diesel fuel injection repair for over 30 years and am factory trained by Bosch.
 

KrashDH

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 22, 2013
Location
Washington
TDI
2002 Golf
It does you can see the side by side of the two pumps above. Both have the Bosch emboss on the sides. I made the comment about engraving PN because I wonder if the tag on that one was just engraved by the 3rd party manufacturer. It's slightly different than others I've seen.



Pretty sure it's +/- .05 based on the bellow quote and that linked blog list the same tolerance for a bunch of older vw pumps https://vincewaldon.com/2008/10/01/how-to-set-the-injection-pump-timing/
That's a good find, I think I ran across this in my searches too! Good to consolidate everything
 

pyromancer

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 27, 2013
Location
Seattle, WA
TDI
2001 Jetta TDI
Unmarked pump had some really nice looking seals and internals. Pretty sure I just rebuilt a pump that didn't need it at all. The groove in the shaft from the front seal was much less pronounced than the made in Germany pump. Going to be running the unmarked pump for this reason.

Maybe keep the other as a backup or possibly sell it, depending on what I could get for it. I do have photos of all the internals and rebuild.

Notes for the next person.
The seal kits are missing an 8mm ID 3mm w Oring that goes on the very tip of the solenoid under the pump head. I'm picking up a couple in viton to replace the old Orings, probably could reuse the old ones though they didn't seem too warn.
(Correction: this Oring is in the kit, it is green and might appear slightly smaller and thinner than the black ones you remove. Oring distributor across town helped me out. The green Oring on the bolt you remove to lock the shaft is missing. I believe it was an 8mm ID 2.5 ID. Don't mix these up or you will have to buy both, green one will peal going in that service port. Again though you could likely resuse these Orings other then swollen they seemed fine. )

If you put a bolt in the pully flange and place a small prybar or strong screwdriver between that bolt and the inner lip of the flange you can counterhold the flange when you torque the nut to 55ftlbs. I did this to take some strain off the lock bolt and the pump shaft to be safe.

The pump diagram on page 1 is broken. But here is a parts list and diagrams for the pump in pdf. https://zanshin-sailing.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/bosch-fuel-injector-manual-pump-parts_.pdf if this link breaks search for VE4/10E2075R700-1 manual.
 
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starrd

Veteran Member
Joined
Nov 24, 2003
Location
Canada
TDI
1996 Passat
I added the individual part numbers (including some VW ones) and notes to an exploded view of the VE Pump. I also added the part numbers for the shaft seal, and the 2 gaskets (1 and 1a) that are missing in the Bosch rebuild kit 2 467 010 003. Click on image to enlarge

 
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pyromancer

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 27, 2013
Location
Seattle, WA
TDI
2001 Jetta TDI
Got the pump I rebuilt mounted on the car and all seems to be working well. I did have an issue setting the pump timing. When I rebuilt my pump I replaced the lock washer and the 22mm nut on the main shaft with new ones. When I loosened the 13mms and used the 22mm to adjust the pump timing it decided to try to loosen on me. Maybe I just didn't have the 13s quite loose enough. I caught it before the 22mm came very loose at all and using a longer bolt in one of the 13mm holes I counter held with a pry bar while tightening the 22mm to get it nice and snug again. That said I would recommend some blue locktite on the 22mm if replacing the nut. Maybe in general. The whole ordeal also made me think that when installing the 22mm during the rebuild process snugging things up initially with the bolt in the port and then using a longer 13mm bolt to counter hold the flange with a pry bar would be a good way to take the force off the port when torquing for anyone else.
 
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Fix_Until_Broke

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 8, 2004
Location
Menomonee Falls, Wisconsin, USA
TDI
03 Jetta
KrashDH - Thanks for the well done "how to"! If I may, I'd like to contribute a bit to this.

The shims on each end of the spring for the dynamic timing adjustment piston, identified as 33 and 35 below and part of 1 460 100 902 "Selection Group Shim Ring"


Those shims on my random 2003 10mm injection pump are:
0.044" thick
0.670" outside diameter
0.213" inside diameter

The piston (31 in the above) is magnetic and rather hard as it wouldn't scratch with a screwdriver so if in a pinch, shim 33 probably isn't critical, but 35 is to prevent the steel spring from wearing into the soft aluminum cap.






The reason I share this information...
A friend of mine owns an ALH TDI, and they went to change the thermostat, but removed this timing spring cover instead (doh!). Spring and shim(s)? came out - spring was found, but shim(s)? are still missing in action. They need to drive to work tomorrow so are in a bit of a panic to get it back together without damaging anything. Hopefully, one of the shims is either stuck to the cap or to the piston and can be installed on the cap side so it can be driven.
 
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