intermittent relay clicking from somewhere?...

[jeffro83]

Hey all. I'm by no means any kind of expert with electrical/wiring issues in my car, and thankfully my 03 golf hasn't had any real electrical issues...until recently.

Started about a month ago; heard what I thought was a turn signal clicking, going on its own. I was about to head off on a 3 week road trip, where I would be off in the mountains/desert and was getting somewhat nervous about random electrical bugs getting worse during my travels, but despite all the clicking and associated locking issues, I made it back in one piece. My original battery in the car (not bad, OEM battery, not bad!) died on the road trip, so I replaced it with a Wal-mart replacement. This new battery has been good so far!

Now, in trying to troubleshoot what the clicking issue is, I am kinda stumped.


The sound that it makes from the dash somewhere is a steady clicking sound, not the typical turn signal/4-way flashers sound - it's faster than that and seems to have nothing to do with the turn signals or 4-ways. I tried this fix just in case it could've been related: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=167831 but it didn't do anything.

The problem started on its own, and it clicks most of the day now. Key in the ignition or not. Locked or unlocked. Seems like it's somehow tied into the lock system, as my locks usually don't work while it's doing its clicking. Haven't been able to open the rear hatch in weeks via both the button on the fob or the hatch release on the driver's door. To get any door other than the driver's door to unlock, I've usually got to hit the unlock button on the key fob a whole bunch of times as well.

[side note, the lock cylinder in the hatch doesn't match my key, as I had to swap it out years ago, after it got so corroded from road salt that crud was getting in, and actually preventing me from physically opening the hatch at all; so I put in another random cylinder that actuated properly...just electrically though, not manually with the key. Anyway, this cylinder swap had only ever limited me in that I couldn't use a physical key any more to open the back; no big deal...till now]

Lately, when I get in my car, and start the ignition, it's still clicking before I fire up, and continues after starting. Once running, it'll usually stop clicking if I hit the unlock button on the driver's door, and it also usually starts clicking again when I step out of first gear into second. It may or may not stop clicking during my drive; how ever long the drive is.

Also, the windows are affected too. When it's doing its clicking thing, the window controls are intermittent (I might need to press the up/down button for the windows to get them to move, maybe 20 times total to fully open or fully close them, after jerky movements up or down).

A knowledgeable VW buddy of mine suggested I look at the grounds under the battery tray. So I took the new battery out today, looked under the battery tray and found a fair bit of corrosion on one of the grounds, and some pooling water nearby to that ground point. Went to loosen it so that I could start cleaning it up, and the bolt (or stud?) sheared right off pretty easily, so that's a new issue (I think it's ground #65, according to http://web.mit.edu/dennis/www/vw/grounds.html as the ABS light stays on now, along with a flashing e-brake light). I'll probably use one of the 4 battery tray bolts along with a washer and some dielectric grease to use as a new ground for the one I sheared off, unless you guys have any better ideas? It was starting to snow into my carport, and I was losing daylight, so I buttoned everything back up, without those 2 ground wires taken care off...that's tomorrow's project.


Manually checked the relays for corrosion under the dash, above the foot pedal area, as well as the fuses. Before taking my steering wheel apart to check the clock spring/stalk for gunk, I also checked out the 4-way switch, and it appears fine, but still clicks with or without it plugged in. Not sure if that's related...

That's where I'm at so far. I ran my vag-com before I looked under the battery tray and sheared off that bolt, and pre-bolt-destroying, the output from VCDS was as follows:


---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Saturday,05,December,2015,14:48:53:49638
VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows 10 x64
VCDS Version: 15.7.2.0 (x64)
Data version: 20151124
www.Ross-Tech.com


VIN: 9BWGP61J834067372 License Plate:
Mileage: 260800km-162053mi Repair Order:



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Chassis Type: 1J (1J - VW Golf/Bora IV (1998 > 2006))
Scan: 01 02 03 08 15 16 17 19 22 29 35 36 37 39 46 47 55 56 57 75
76

VIN: 9BWGP61J834067372 Mileage: 260800km-162053miles
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine Labels: 038-906-012-AGR.lbl
Part No: 038 906 012 GN
Component: 1,9l R4 EDC G000SG 4308
Coding: 00002
Shop #: WSC 00000
VCID: 62C1A64CEE8E572E1D-49C0
9BWGP61J834067372 VWZ7Z0C7060387

4 Faults Found:
17056 - Cylinder 2 Glow Plug Circuit (Q11)
P0672 - 35-10 - Electrical Fault - Intermittent
17058 - Cylinder 4 Glow Plug Circuit (Q13)
P0674 - 35-10 - Electrical Fault - Intermittent
16785 - EGR System
P0401 - 35-10 - Insufficient Flow - Intermittent
16512 - Coolant Thermostat Valve (N214)
P0128 - 35-10 - Temperature below Control Range - Intermittent
Readiness: 1 4 0 0 0

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes Labels: 1C0-907-37x-ESP-F.lbl
Part No: 1C0 907 379 M
Component: ESP FRONT MK60 0102
Coding: 0019458
Shop #: WSC 00000 785 00200
VCID: 346D101454FA899EBF-4FE2

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags Labels: 6Q0-909-605-VW5.lbl
Part No: 1C0 909 605 F
Component: 08 AIRBAG VW61 0202 0003
Coding: 12344
Shop #: WSC 00000
VCID: 2757F758C52CF2060A-4FC6

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments Labels: 1J0-920-xx5-17.lbl
Part No: 1J0 920 806 L
Component: KOMBI+WEGFAHRSP VDO V07
Coding: 07332
Shop #: WSC 00000
VCID: 30651C04F0E2B5BEDB-4FAA
9BWGP61J834067372 VWZ7Z0C7060387

2 Faults Found:
01039 - Coolant Temperature Sensor (G2)
30-10 - Open or Short to Plus - Intermittent
01304 - Radio
49-00 - No Communications

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 19: CAN Gateway Labels: 6N0-909-901-19.lbl
Part No: 6N0 909 901
Component: Gateway K<->CAN 0001
Coding: 00006
Shop #: WSC 00000
VCID: 70E5DC043062F5BE9B-4FAA

1 Fault Found:
01304 - Radio
49-00 - No Communications

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 46: Central Conv. Labels: 1C0-959-799.lbl
Part No: 1C0 959 799 C
Component: 8C Komfortgerát HLO 0003
Coding: 00258
Shop #: WSC 00000
VCID: 37772718158C62869A-49C0

Subsystem 1 - Part No: 1C1959801A
Component: 8C Tõrsteuer.FS KLO 0009

Subsystem 2 - Part No: 1C1959802A
Component: 8C Tõrsteuer.BF KLO 0009

Subsystem 3 - Part No: 1C0959811A
Component: 8C Tõrsteuer.HL KLO 0009

Subsystem 4 - Part No: 1C0959812A
Component: 8C Tõrsteuer.HR KLO 0009

5 Faults Found:
01389 - Tailgate Open Switch (F124)
27-10 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent
01038 - Central Locking Thermal Protection
35-00 - -
01334 - Door Control Module; Rear Right (J389)
49-10 - No Communications - Intermittent
01333 - Door Control Module; Rear Left (J388)
49-10 - No Communications - Intermittent
01299 - Diagnostic Interface for Data Bus (J533)
49-10 - No Communications - Intermittent

End-------------------------(Elapsed Time: 05:48)--------------------------


------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Regarding the EGR code, I did an EGR delete years ago and currently have a Dieselgeek race pipe installed. The glow plug code is probably the harness, and has been an ongoing issue for a while that I just haven't gotten around to addressing. Coolant thermostat has also been acting up for the past few months, but also haven't given it a high priority to replace it yet. Radio is not stock, so I get that error regularly too. Everything below that are all brand new codes though (all the central convenience stuff), and started only after the clicking issue came about.

Only other issues, which are probably unrelated, are that the passenger's heated seat no longer heats, and there's a mild exhaust leak somewhere that leaks into the cabin when I'm stopped at a light, idling, after long drives (again my troubleshooting hasn't gotten me very far with this one).

Any friendly guidance? This is really the only electrical issue I've ever had with this car, and I'm open to suggestions/criticisms!!!

 

[Dorkage]

The click is caused by carbon or dust or something in the turn signal stalk. You can either replace it, spray contact cleaner in it and attempt to clean it, or disassemble it and clean it.

 

[jeffro83]

The click is caused by carbon or dust or something in the turn signal stalk. You can either replace it, spray contact cleaner in it and attempt to clean it, or disassemble it and clean it.

Thanks for the reply. Like I'd mentioned, I have taken the stalk apart, cleaned all the contacts, and greased everything... still having the issue though. How likely is it still the stalk causing the issue if I've disassembled and thoroughly cleaned it already?

 

[Raweaver_410]

Hard to say when you have a short to plus or high that is a open circuit or broken wire. anything to low is a bad sensor. Disabling your immobilizer could help but it is hard to say sitting here in a chair.

 

[UhOh]

Man, you've got a lot of issue going on there! Anyway...

Put a meter across all your fused circuits and narrow it down to the circuit and then get back to us.

Oh! Aftermarket stereo? Newer install?

 

[jeffro83]

Thanks for the note, and sorry for the late reply. I'm back on shift for the next 3 days, but after that I'll bust out the multimeter.

One other thing I've managed to do since the last post was to find a new grounding spot for the 2 ground wires under the battery tray. That issue's fixed up, so I can get back to the task at hand this upcoming weekend!

As for the radio, it's been in the car since I bought it, years and years ago. It's a crappy Sony CD player, with a detachable face. Though, it always has seemed kinda flimsy to me. Maybe I'll take it out and see how the wiring is in behind it.

 

[UhOh]

Test the circuits first. While there are instances of issues with aftermarket radios (I cannot recite them, I just recall folks running into some issues- they're on the post 2000, I believe, models- I just know that my 2000s aren't subject) I was just putting that out there for a data collection point.

 

[BobnOH]

Check the grounds under the dash

 

[UhOh]

Bob, are there also grounds down behind the driver's kick panel? Or are these all just harness connectors there? (I haven't had one off) I know that water leaks tend to seek out this area and cause problems.

 

[jeffro83]

haven't checked for grounds under the dash yet (are those the ones where you need to tear apart your whole dash to get at??), but just tried to do a capacitance discharge while the battery was disco'd, as i read on another thread that that sometimes fixes issues like this (didn't do anything).

checked fuses and narrowed it down:

#14 - Interior lights, central locking system (10A)

don't have any fuses to swap out, but tested the fuse itself, and it checks out OK.


only thing off the top of my head about that circuit could be the monkeying around i did with a mechanic a few years back, when replacing the rear hatch lock cylinder (mentioned that in my first post)...guess i could yank that back hatch panel off and see if there's some corrosion anywhere in the wiring back there?

 

[jeffro83]

...just an update for anyone who's curious and/or wants to contribute any further ideas ;-)

only difference in this issue lately is that it still clicks like mad, locks/windows are still kinda screwy, the coolant thermostat issue seems to have gone away for now, HOWEVER - i managed to get the rear hatch to open via the fob a few times, but now it no longer locks at all. latches no problem, but the lock actuator keeps it unlocked. so now my rear hatch is permanently unlocked; if you see my car, feel free to steal my $1.99 ice scraper brush inside.

any thoughts? haven't had the time or weather to take everything apart, but this hatch lock issue could be a bigger problem, as i'd like to be able to secure my car when i'm not around it...you know, the whole purpose for having locks on things.

 

[sangretdi]

any screwiness with the rear hatch locking/not locking, first place to look is where the wiring harnesses from the car goes to the hatch door, near the hinges. pull those accordian rubber gaskets out of the way and if the wires in the wire harness are exposed looked for cracks in the insolation. if the wires are wrapped in tape, carefully remove the tape and look for splits in the wire harness. if you see cracks in the inso, wrap with electrical tape. if you have broken wires, solder in a bit of new wire, or use a butt-joint type crimp connector.

i went through that and a bunch of other electrical gremlins because of water leaks up front. not a bad idea to pull the carpet back and clean the electrical connectors down by the drivers side hood release lever and the passenger side same area. i had corrosion in those, sprayed elec cleaner and did the trick... also the overhead lights would be flakey, pull the unit down and cleaned all those switches with elec cleaner and that also cleared up that problem. i think all of these are tied to fuse #14...

 

[jeffro83]

any screwiness with the rear hatch locking/not locking, first place to look is where the wiring harnesses from the car goes to the hatch door, near the hinges. pull those accordian rubber gaskets out of the way and if the wires in the wire harness are exposed looked for cracks in the insolation. if the wires are wrapped in tape, carefully remove the tape and look for splits in the wire harness. if you see cracks in the inso, wrap with electrical tape. if you have broken wires, solder in a bit of new wire, or use a butt-joint type crimp connector.

i went through that and a bunch of other electrical gremlins because of water leaks up front. not a bad idea to pull the carpet back and clean the electrical connectors down by the drivers side hood release lever and the passenger side same area. i had corrosion in those, sprayed elec cleaner and did the trick... also the overhead lights would be flakey, pull the unit down and cleaned all those switches with elec cleaner and that also cleared up that problem. i think all of these are tied to fuse #14...

awesome thanks, i'll give this a whirl at some point soon.

 

[jeffro83]

well i finally had some time to take a look at the rear hatch wiring...something to get started on now, anyway :-/

i think i'd rather try and repair both wiring harness sections on their own, rather than replacing the entire wiring harness for each side ($$$). anyone try something like this before if they've run into a similar issue? - http://www.europeanperformanceprodu...Right----VW-Golf-IV---08-1997-to-09-2003.html

also, after some fidgeting with those broken/frayed wires, the fob would lock/unlock the rear hatch no problem (as expected, i guess). decent amount of corrosion under the paneling of the hatch door too...

 

[That Guy]

I had a similar problem and also found messed up wires on the drivers side rubber flex connection in the hatch. I spliced in new wires.

However I was also having other odd electrical issues at the time, and so a few moths later I replaced the wiring harness on that side altogether. That didn't fix my other issues which turned out to be a bad negative battery connector terminal....it would get loose over time. But at least I know it should be good for another 10 years or so....or so I thought.

I'm recently having odd issues again. And the hatch seems to be the culprit. So, I'll be focusing on the passenger side wiring this time, but also checking the driver's side again too.

PS: Does anyone know if there is supposed to be a rubber or plastic grommet for the inside of the hatch. Where the rubber flex hose fits into the hatch, there are two metal holes that the wires go through. The first is covered by the rubber flex hose, but the inner hole is just bare metal where the wires may rub against the metal edge as the hatch is opened and closed. It seems like there should be something there to prevent that.

My hatch was replaced after getting rear-ended years ago, and I wonder if they forgot to cover that hole with the proper grommet. But it could be that it's just the way it is too.