Intermittent hard start, now no start....NOW 2nd DEAD HPFP!!!

[crustodd]

Hello all,
So this has been an ongoing issue for about 4-6 months I think. Occasionally long cranking starts, then back to periods of being "normal". I've changed out 4 fuel filters in the last 6 weeks, thinking it might be contamination in the tank. I checked both intercooler hoses, no moisture there. It's about 78-82° here in Oregon the last few days and it runs great when it's running. Took it to the Coast Friday, multiple starts/stops, NO problems, works as normal. Ran it yesterday back here in the Valley, multiple start/stops, NO problems. Went to start today cranks over, but WILL NOT FIRE!? Changed the fuel filter, a little bit of black streaks in the old one, still won't even sputter or attempt to fire. ANY THOUGHTS before I tow it to the dealer

 

[crustodd]

Hello all,
So this has been an ongoing issue for about 4-6 months I think. Occasionally long cranking starts, then back to periods of being "normal". I've changed out 4 fuel filters in the last 6 weeks, thinking it might be contamination in the tank. I checked both intercooler hoses, no moisture there. It's about 78-82° here in Oregon the last few days and it runs great when it's running. Took it to the Coast Friday, multiple starts/stops, NO problems, works as normal. Ran it yesterday back here in the Valley, multiple start/stops, NO problems. Went to start today cranks over, but WILL NOT FIRE!? Changed the fuel filter, a little bit of black streaks in the old one, still won't even sputter or attempt to fire. ANY THOUGHTS before I tow it to the dealer

This made me realise, my JSW has been towed for repairs more often than ANY car I've owned. It has 162K miles on it and I do ALL the correct maintenance on it and use good addatives. Pretty frustrating/disappointing. I drive it long miles too, fully up to temps for long periods.

 

[jimmyfine]

I am not certain what advice to give because I can only assume what is happening, but the only experience similar to that description for me is a possible slow starter.

 

[90_zeros]

Hello all,
So this has been an ongoing issue for about 4-6 months I think. Occasionally long cranking starts, then back to periods of being "normal". I've changed out 4 fuel filters in the last 6 weeks, thinking it might be contamination in the tank. I checked both intercooler hoses, no moisture there. It's about 78-82° here in Oregon the last few days and it runs great when it's running. Took it to the Coast Friday, multiple starts/stops, NO problems, works as normal. Ran it yesterday back here in the Valley, multiple start/stops, NO problems. Went to start today cranks over, but WILL NOT FIRE!? Changed the fuel filter, a little bit of black streaks in the old one, still won't even sputter or attempt to fire. ANY THOUGHTS before I tow it to the dealer

Sorry to hear your troubles, I beat the crap out of mine and it runs great (minus that pesky dpf...). I assume you've taken it to the dealer already, so what was the outcome? I would suggest priming the fuel pump with VCDS to see if it fills the canister

 

[pedroYUL]

have a look at the pressure sensor, any metal or gunk?

 

[crustodd]

Welll...$3,000 later, back on the road. It didn't fully grenade, just the HPFP and the injectors. My local dealer is Lithia VW of Salem. I have to commend the service guys there. They have been pretty fair with me on my visits there and even though the service intervals cost a bit more than doin it myself, like a Dr. that knows a patient, they know the car. It was initially gonna be $3480. They knocked it back to $2880. That made it sting less. However, their work is warrantied for 3yrs/50K. I had this fully fail at about 53.5K from the first replacement under the "Dieselgate" warranty. I'm gonna go back through my posts to see when I was on here asking about hard-starts. I'm betting I was UNDER that 50K threshold from the previous repair and I should have taken it in then!!! MY BAAAAD More frustrating than that is that the FTC recognized a problem on the "Clean Diesel" scandal and VW paid MANY millions to buy them back. The HPFP failures are beginning to add up. The NHTSA has a website where this can have complaints filed, along with things like the intake manifold flap and the icing intercooler. These strike me as potential safety issues that VW should be held accountable for. The basic architecture of the cars is solid, but these issues that can result in a SUDDEN failure/loss of power should be looked into and VW should pay up AND ACTUALLY come up with a fix. The fact that I lost TWO PUMPS in less than 2 years and I'm SUPER picky about servicing AND I usually don't blast my stereo SO I CAN HEAR the car....strikes me as substandard parts being supplied though VW. I'll speak to the attorneys that handled the "Dieselgate" suit next week and see what they might think. I spoke to a major fuel supplier a couple days ago here in Oregon and he said the oversite of the tanks at retail and commercial sites is TIGHTLY regulated here. Contaminates is a low likely hood. In addition, it would seem PREPOSTEROUS that a manufacturer would make A CAR, THAT CAN BE DRIVEN ACROSS COUNTRY.... and not have it be designed to tolerate variable fuel conditions. It's not as though we can get a sample, have it sent in for testing,....THEN determine we're comfortable refueling. The filtration is doing it's job, but the cheap pumps just seem HIGHLY VARIABLE in their ability to last. I also spoke to VAG and of course they won't do anything because it's past the extended warranty. I think that warranty should reset EVERY time one of the emissions parts fails BEFORE 120K. To not have that be the case is indirectly conceding to the fact that the engineering of the system is lousy and inclined to fail...REPEATEDLY in some cases. So, now I'm gonna get a back-up vehicle....AND IT WON'T BE A VW

 

[crustodd]

Welll...$3,000 later, back on the road. It didn't fully grenade, just the HPFP and the injectors. My local dealer is Lithia VW of Salem. I have to commend the service guys there. They have been pretty fair with me on my visits there and even though the service intervals cost a bit more than doin it myself, like a Dr. that knows a patient, they know the car. It was initially gonna be $3480. They knocked it back to $2880. That made it sting less. However, their work is warrantied for 3yrs/50K. I had this fully fail at about 53.5K from the first replacement under the "Dieselgate" warranty. I'm gonna go back through my posts to see when I was on here asking about hard-starts. I'm betting I was UNDER that 50K threshold from the previous repair and I should have taken it in then!!! MY BAAAAD More frustrating than that is that the FTC recognized a problem on the "Clean Diesel" scandal and VW paid MANY millions to buy them back. The HPFP failures are beginning to add up. The NHTSA has a website where this can have complaints filed, along with things like the intake manifold flap and the icing intercooler. These strike me as potential safety issues that VW should be held accountable for. The basic architecture of the cars is solid, but these issues that can result in a SUDDEN failure/loss of power should be looked into and VW should pay up AND ACTUALLY come up with a fix. The fact that I lost TWO PUMPS in less than 2 years and I'm SUPER picky about servicing AND I usually don't blast my stereo SO I CAN HEAR the car....strikes me as substandard parts being supplied though VW. I'll speak to the attorneys that handled the "Dieselgate" suit next week and see what they might think. I spoke to a major fuel supplier a couple days ago here in Oregon and he said the oversite of the tanks at retail and commercial sites is TIGHTLY regulated here. Contaminates is a low likely hood. In addition, it would seem PREPOSTEROUS that a manufacturer would make A CAR, THAT CAN BE DRIVEN ACROSS COUNTRY.... and not have it be designed to tolerate variable fuel conditions. It's not as though we can get a sample, have it sent in for testing,....THEN determine we're comfortable refueling. The filtration is doing it's job, but the cheap pumps just seem HIGHLY VARIABLE in their ability to last. I also spoke to VAG and of course they won't do anything because it's past the extended warranty. I think that warranty should reset EVERY time one of the emissions parts fails BEFORE 120K. To not have that be the case is indirectly conceding to the fact that the engineering of the system is lousy and inclined to fail...REPEATEDLY in some cases. So, now I'm gonna get a back-up vehicle....AND IT WON'T BE A VW

UPDATE I got the car back and didn't even get through the full tank they supplied me with....and it's been intermittently hard starting AGAIN
It'll go back in about 10 days from now when they have a loaner for me, but there does SEEM to be a connection between the fuel getting down around 2/3 full or less. In tank pump? They said it tested as being fine. I really don't wanna play investigate/spend money/still not right

 

[PRY4SNO]

CP3 is the way.

 

[taleAwaggin]

I'm with you on the having a back up vehicle part.. having two cars that work 50% of the time beats having to drive a prius 100% of the time tho.

 

[calimustang]

slap the CP3 on. I had 5 HPFP failures in 6 months shortly after purchasing the car, she sat 2 years as buyback car then sold to me at 20k miles 2014 JSW. 5k miles and 6 months later, they found the culprit... MOLD/MILDEW in the danged fuel tank that they didn't even BOTHER to check into until the 5th failure.... UGH! after she was fixed, slapped the CP3 at 25k miles on Feb 2019 and never look back ever since. She now chugs flawlessly at 102k miles.

 

[HighEmissionsVWgirl]

UPDATE I got the car back and didn't even get through the full tank they supplied me with....and it's been intermittently hard starting AGAIN
It'll go back in about 10 days from now when they have a loaner for me, but there does SEEM to be a connection between the fuel getting down around 2/3 full or less. In tank pump? They said it tested as being fine. I really don't wanna play investigate/spend money/still not right

Sounds like its probably something in the fuel tank. You're replacing filters and multiple HPFP's and still having the problem, which leave you with the in tank pump and the tank itself. My bet is on the tank itself as the in tank pump is obviously working. it may be worth running it as close to empty as possible, dropping the tank, and washing it out to get whatever crud is getting stirred up when fuel level is low out. As noted above though, it may be wise to just switch to a CP3 if it happens again. In any case, still seems worthwhile to clean the tank as you've got an alternate vehicle to drive while working on getting the tank out and cleaned.

 

[crustodd]

Well, I've pondered that, but when it had the last repair (HPFP, injectors), the dealer dropped the tank and flushed it. I'm seeing a pretty consistant pattern of the hard start correlating to 8-10 gallons being burned off, then it is hard starts, particularly if the engine is cold or has sat for a bit, say 45 mins/hr. I feel like it's also "louder" or more clattery, the stereotypical diesel sound, when it's not totally at full gauge temp. I have the Kerma ECU/TCU tunes and I don't remember it bein' quite as noisey. It's warmer ambient temps these days too, so it seems like it should be running quieter

 

[crustodd]

I'm with you on the having a back up vehicle part.. having two cars that work 50% of the time beats having to drive a prius 100% of the time tho.

I'm honestly not a Prius hater, 'cause....TOYOTA reliability, 40-50 mpg

 

[taleAwaggin]

If I were smarter I would have one instead of my wagon.

And my other two non-Toyotas with wheel bolts instead of lug nuts.. those would be Toyota. But here we are.