Intermediate Shaft Outer Bearing R&R

ejallison1

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Joined
Apr 28, 2010
Location
Kansas, Illinois
TDI
98 Jetta TDI AHU, 97 Passat TDI AAZ, 04 Golf TDI PD, 01 NB TDI ALH
I am going to attempt a how to on the way I replaced the outer intermediate shaft bearing on my 97 Passat. Usual disclaimers that this is how I did it and your results may vary-proceed at own risk.


This car has 230xxx miles and not infrequently I notice that the low oil pressure light (blue flashing) is on for a few seconds after initial start-up. Am not a mechanic but have read on this forum that these bearings can be the more likely cause of low oil pressure. Oil pumps and rod bearings did not seem to be the most common culprit-these bearing did. I plan to keep this car a long time so did this as a preventative maintenance item. I do not have a mechanical oil pressure gauge on this car so I can not tell you before and after PSI-just in there already so why not do it.


The ideal time to do this is when replacing both the clutch and timing belt-so review those how to's on tdiclub.com and/or myturbodiesel.com. I did the engine and trans mount at the same time, which is necessary to remove the trans for a new clutch-at least the way I did it. I read all the how to's on the clutch replacement and I found it more simple to remove the subframe (k-frame) in order to get the trans out for clutch replacement. I highly recommend that you both heat and PB blast the subframe bolts prior to removing. I had one bolt snap off and it was a bear getting it out. Oil pan has to come off with this method.


During this procedure I left the front engine mount attached-no reason just hadn't done it yet. With the trans out and the engine supported with a harbor freight lift you can lower the engine enough to pull the intermediate shaft completely out exposing the outer bearing.




















 

ejallison1

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 28, 2010
Location
Kansas, Illinois
TDI
98 Jetta TDI AHU, 97 Passat TDI AAZ, 04 Golf TDI PD, 01 NB TDI ALH






Used other washer/all thread set-up to tap the new bearing in. Went in fairly easy especially after getting it started. Go slow-and make sure you have the holes lined up!!




Impressions: Really don't know if this was necessary. The shaft felt much tighter after new bearing was inserted compared to the original so probably some wear after 230xxx miles. Will try to report back after finish everything up and report whether this has cured low oil pressure blue flashing light upon initial start up. When dry fitting the new bearing over the shaft on the bench was concerned I may not have the correct bearing since it seemed pretty loose. The bearing does compress as you insert it and felt tighter the original bearing.
 
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Steve Addy

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 7, 2002
Location
Iowa
TDI
97 Mk3
Nice job, good documentation. This is a bit of maintenance that we don't often talk about because access to it is a pain.

I have a couple of these bearings in my spares bin just for situations like this.

Steve
 

chrisvb

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 7, 2011
Location
ontario
TDI
1.9 jetta
Thanks for the info , am about to do similar operation . Have you considerated installing a permanent oil presure gauge?? Real easy and i at least know what is happening?
 

Houpty GT

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Joined
Aug 31, 2008
Location
South Carolina
TDI
Corrado TDI, 2000 Golf, 1996 B4 Variant
I wanted to bump this thread since it is the best I have seen for the intermediate shaft. I am down to 7 psi at idle so I am going to try this tomorrow. I also want to share the JaysinSpaceman mod.
Ok, I am going to show you how I modified the ahu/1z front intermediate shaft bearing so that it shouldn't be as failure prone. Although I did get a bit carried away while doing the repairs and forgot to take pictures as it was going back together.

These next two diagrams show the Timing Belt routing for the 1.8 gasser and the ahu/1z (which bassically share the same block) and the fact that the timing belt runs on opposite sides of the intermediate shaft pulley. This rearrangement of the timing belt is the majority of the reason that this front bearing is prone to failure, it not only changes the direction that the shaft is loaded but also the direction that it turns. The thrust load of the timing belt can also be exaggerated by adding a larger injector pump head (like 11 or 12 mm) because the force required to turn the pump increases and the tension on the timing belt also increases and therefore the thrust applied to the I-shaft bearing also increases. The oil hole in this bearing was positioned in the correct place for the gasser engine(about 10 o'clock) but completely incorrectly for the TD/TDI engines.





These next two pictures are taken from above the motor looking down at the wear on the thrust side of the TDI bearing. You can see a difference in color/shine at the wear/no wear interface.




This picture is looking up from the bottom of the motor at the oil galley hole that supplies oil to the bearing. It is quite literally 180 degrees opposite of the thrust load on the tdi I-shaft, this means that not only is the T-belt thrust pushing the shaft toward the dry side of the bearing but the oil pressure coming out of the galley is also adding to that thrust force.


Here is the practice groove cut into the back side of the bad bearing that I removed and then the two new bearings with the grove cut into the front bearing. The bearing shell is only about .060" thick and since the babbitt material on the inside of the bearing is .005" or so thick the groove should only be cut .035-.040" deep and the width of the oil hole in the bearing.


This looks out of focus but it is so you can see the groove depth at the side of the bearing.


New bearings.




This is where I quit taking pictures because I was so excited to get it all back together. But it goes together just like the original except that the front bearing oil hole gets clocked down between the 4:00-5:00 mark so that the oil enters at the beginning of the thrust area and is swept under the thrust area as any plane bearing is typically installed.

Now the repair I have done here is for an engine that is not completely disassembled. If you have an engine block that you are rebuilding and is just a bare block I would perform this repair differently, I would machine this grove into the bearing bore in the block itself (1/8" deep and the same width as the oil galley hole) then using a standard bearing (without any modification) the oil hole in the bearing would be located down at the 4:00-5:00 mark.

If you have any questions feel free to ask I will answer them as best I can.

Thanx for looking,
Jaysin
Here is the link to his post. https://forums.tdiclub.com/index.ph...her-toyota-swap-but-m-tdi.358097/post-4562442
 

jdulle

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 4, 2017
Location
Ithaca, NY
TDI
96 B4, 97 B4
I think I should do this at some point too. On my 97 the oil light flashes for several seconds before the pressure builds. I don't know if I will bother, I might just drive it and see what happens.
 

Steve Addy

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 7, 2002
Location
Iowa
TDI
97 Mk3
I think I should do this at some point too. On my 97 the oil light flashes for several seconds before the pressure builds. I don't know if I will bother, I might just drive it and see what happens.
Mine maybe flashes 1.5 times at startup, not really sure how long that is in seconds.

I wouldn't hesitate to perform the service if it was necessary, I think putting money into what you know is a lot better than putting money into something you don't know.

Steve
 

jdulle

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Feb 4, 2017
Location
Ithaca, NY
TDI
96 B4, 97 B4
Yeah, I don't know if its necessary, it's just that the other 2 B4 tdi that I have owned the light goes out faster. You can also hear the valves clatter for the same amount of time and then the lubrication hits them.
 

Houpty GT

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Joined
Aug 31, 2008
Location
South Carolina
TDI
Corrado TDI, 2000 Golf, 1996 B4 Variant
My engine has low oil pressure. I was told that the inner bearing on my engine was worn because the oil pressure was much lower at the cylinder head than it was at the oil filter. I decided to take a chance and change the outer bearing since it was so commonly the problem. This would also give me a chance to inspect the inner bearing replacement if needed. The new outer bearing gave me zero improvement on oil pressure. It is possible to change the inner bearing with the engine in the car but the tools will need to be better quality than what I had and the oil pan will also need to come out. I am going to inspect the vacuum pump next, then plan on the rear bearing and inspecting the oil pump while the oil pan is off.

The outer bearing job was not too difficult. Getting tools to work is going to take most of the time. I made a puller with threaded rod and a washer with same outer diameter but a larger center bore. I then ground 2 edges of the washer so that it was oval shaped. The larger inner diameter of the washer allows me to turn it at an angle on the threaded rod. The angle and the 2 ground sides let me slip it while it is still on the threaded rod and it is able to grab the bearing when it straightens out. The washer needs to be the EXACT diameter of the bearing since the bearing is so thin. There is barely anything to hold onto and it will slip off otherwise.
The other method that works is to put a rod through the bearing at an angle and then stuff a rag around it. You can use a small punch and hammer and go side to side to tap the bearing in where the rag and rod will catch it. A pry bar can then easily pull it out perpendicular to the hole while leaving the rod in for safety.
 

Houpty GT

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Aug 31, 2008
Location
South Carolina
TDI
Corrado TDI, 2000 Golf, 1996 B4 Variant
I managed to install the rear intermediate shaft bearing with the engine in the car. I purchased the Lisle 18000 camshaft bearing tool. 18000 Universal Camshaft Bearing Tool | Lisle Corporation It works well with the #1 collet and the small driving washer. I recommend spending double on a good American tool rather than half on a junky Chinese tool. Why throw money away and you can always sell a good tool? If you want to go cheap, you can buy the expanding driver (Lisle 18330) and the Number 1 expanding assembly (Lisle 18020) for $23 each, add your own driving washer, and tap the cap on an iron pipe to use as a driving bar.
The bearing comes out and goes in easy. Space is tight so you have to remove and add the bearing with a magnet on a stick to get it onto the camshaft bearing tool. Do not overtighten the expanding assembly or the edges of the collet will stick out past the outer diameter of the bearing and hit the block. The major problem is seeing the hole alignment. I marked the bottom of the bearing after determining the best alignment from a visual on the side of the engine. There is no good way to see the hole completely. I can see the hole with a mirror from the vacuum pump port, but lighting is still poor. A borescope might be very useful. I plan to make a coat hanger feeler or use compressed air in the oil pump channel to confirm it is open. The JayinSpaceman mod would resolve the issue completely.
The oil channel points to the transmission.
 

garciapiano

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Joined
Feb 12, 2018
Location
Southern California
TDI
1997 Jetta TDI (1Z)
There's a nice video showing this procedure on Youtube.

There is a CAD file on thingiverse for a tool that you could use to knock the bearing out. You just need to have it cut out of steel plate by some company like sendcutsend.com or ponoko. The problem is they have something like a $30 minimum, although that and some threaded rod is significantly cheaper than the previous post's $300+ tool :oops:

Personally, this job looks 8 million times easier with the engine out, and you can actually do it right, maybe even evaluate other engine bearings at the same time.
 
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Houpty GT

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Aug 31, 2008
Location
South Carolina
TDI
Corrado TDI, 2000 Golf, 1996 B4 Variant
You are way off price! The tool costs less than $150. Lisle 18000 Universal Camshaft Bearing Tool 1.125" to 2.69", in Case | JB Tools
Plus, I told people which Lisle parts they need to build a quality tool for $46 from Summitracing plus some iron pipe and a tap. You can't budget $30 for tools and advocate pulling the entire engine on the short road to a rebuild in the same post. This whole thread is meant to provide a reasonable alternative to a job that will create runaway costs if it is done by the mechanic's book.

The thingiverse puller plate is the same as I made of washers and described in post #9. It works well for pulling but must be the exact diameter since the bearing wall thickness is so thin. You may find it extremely difficult to try and use that to install a bearing during in-frame work.


I had excellent results with this process as I did indeed have the bearing lined up on the first shot. The Clevite SH1209s bearing provided a snug fit once it was pressed into the block. Finally, to check the alignment, I wrapped a piece of safety wire around a wooden dowl. I let 1 inch of wire stick out and I used that as a feeler from the beltside of the engine with flashlight to confirm enough of the hole was open. You could also modify this process to perfectly mark the bottom of the bearing for alignment.
I will also note that bearing depth can be set by matching it with the staining on the block from the old bearing.
 

garciapiano

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Joined
Feb 12, 2018
Location
Southern California
TDI
1997 Jetta TDI (1Z)
True. Some of us just love punishing ourselves and doing things by the mechanic's book. 🤦‍♂️

In other news, I ordered 7 of the above thingiverse tool and now have 6 extras sitting around. If anyone wants one, pay me $5 and I'll send it your way.
 

Benjamis

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Joined
Jan 17, 2021
Location
Due east of Cincinnati, Ohio
TDI
1996 B4V 1Z 318k
How is the Jaysin Spaceman mod working out, are people having good results, any reason not to do it? It makes sense to me, I might try it out. I suppose if oil pressure reaches the right spot on the bearing that it will last a lot longer even though there is a groove cut about 2/3 of the way through it.
 

garciapiano

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Feb 12, 2018
Location
Southern California
TDI
1997 Jetta TDI (1Z)
How is the Jaysin Spaceman mod working out, are people having good results, any reason not to do it? It makes sense to me, I might try it out. I suppose if oil pressure reaches the right spot on the bearing that it will last a lot longer even though there is a groove cut about 2/3 of the way through it.
The bearing already has a groove cut into it... making it even bigger will likely cause a slight drop in oil pressure.

We're talking about a bearing that already lasts a pretty long time. Given that it can be done in situ in the car, I feel like that's overthinking it.
 

Benjamis

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Jan 17, 2021
Location
Due east of Cincinnati, Ohio
TDI
1996 B4V 1Z 318k
Hmm. I was not aware there were grooves cut in the bearings. I don't see that on any pictures. I thought there was just one hole in each that has to be lined up with the hole in the block, and that the Spaceman mod allows for leeway in hole placement and also allows for the hole and oil pressure to be directly on the load. You are right though, if the bearing lasts 300k, why worry, but it would be fairly easy enough for me to cut the groove in them before popping them in if it helps.
 

Houpty GT

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Aug 31, 2008
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South Carolina
TDI
Corrado TDI, 2000 Golf, 1996 B4 Variant
The JaysinSpaceman mod is on the OD, not the inner diameter scallops that are on the rear bearing.
The JaysinSpaceman mod shifts the oil pressure to the friction side of the shaft, so the pressure actually lifts the shaft off the bearing further reduce friction like a hydrostatic shaft. It also increases overall oil pressure through the opposing pressure from the shaft. The pressures are a small difference, but you are moving in a positive direction instead of the negative direction as VW left it as a repurposed gasoline design.
I did not get the opportunity to machine mine before install.
 

Benjamis

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Jan 17, 2021
Location
Due east of Cincinnati, Ohio
TDI
1996 B4V 1Z 318k
The JaysinSpaceman mod is on the OD, not the inner diameter scallops that are on the rear bearing.
The JaysinSpaceman mod shifts the oil pressure to the friction side of the shaft, so the pressure actually lifts the shaft off the bearing further reduce friction like a hydrostatic shaft. It also increases overall oil pressure through the opposing pressure from the shaft. The pressures are a small difference, but you are moving in a positive direction instead of the negative direction as VW left it as a repurposed gasoline design.
I did not get the opportunity to machine mine before install.
Well said. I just got the bearings, and there is indeed a small groove cut on the ID of the rear bearing only, from the hole to the outer edge.
 

Steve Addy

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 7, 2002
Location
Iowa
TDI
97 Mk3
Does anyone have a link for the JaysinSpaceman mod? Cuz I've never heard of it before and I'd like to see what exactly that entails.

Steve
 

Benjamis

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Jan 17, 2021
Location
Due east of Cincinnati, Ohio
TDI
1996 B4V 1Z 318k
Yea, I could swear I just saw photos on that thread a couple months ago, they weren't that great though from what I recall, and he admitted to forgetting to take pictures while putting it back together. Unfortunately he has passed.
 

Benjamis

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Jan 17, 2021
Location
Due east of Cincinnati, Ohio
TDI
1996 B4V 1Z 318k
The JayinSpaceman mod would resolve the issue completely.
Is the inner bearing oil hole in the block at 10 o'clock as well? If so, would that be in the correct spot? If the friction side of the shaft on the outer bearing is around 4-5 o'clock, the friction side of the inner bearing would be 180 degrees opposite and a smaller load wouldn't you say?
 

Houpty GT

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Aug 31, 2008
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South Carolina
TDI
Corrado TDI, 2000 Golf, 1996 B4 Variant
I recall it being around 1 or 2 o'clock. There forces on the rear are more complicated. Close to 180 degrees is the force from the belt but there is also a force from the oil pump and vacuum pump gears.
 

Steve Addy

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Aug 7, 2002
Location
Iowa
TDI
97 Mk3

Benjamis

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Jan 17, 2021
Location
Due east of Cincinnati, Ohio
TDI
1996 B4V 1Z 318k
Well, after further consideration, I decided against doing the Spaceman mod to the bearings (bushings). For one, it was another project, and also carving out half of the thickness of the bearing worried me a bit, plus these bearings do last a long time as is.

Also, for the inner bearing, I don't think it would be a good idea to change the orientation of it in any way because the groove cut in the ID is for squirting oil on the shaft gear that mates with the vacuum pump gear, so directing that spray elsewhere might not be a good thing.

OE inner bearing


I bought the Clevite SH1209S bearing set. Here is the inner bearing ID for comparison to the OE.


I was able to remove the intermediate shaft with the engine in the car and transmission attached. I lowered the belt side and raised the transmission side. It was necessary to unbolt the driveshafts from the transmission, and I tried it at first without removing the alternator and ac compressor, and actually I was able to get the shaft out, but decided to go ahead and remove the ac compressor to lower the engine further to get better access to the hole to remove and install the bearings. Also had to remove the timing belt tensioner stud after I did that.

For removing the bearings, I used this homemade tool. Total cost: $0. Just a rusty old long bolt and some nuts and washers laying around.


Hammering out the bearings was not difficult, but they are in there tight. They are slightly different sizes, so I used different washers on each to hammer them out. My bearings weren't in too terribly bad of shape, but they did have pitting and I had 0.015" play in the shaft 2 years ago, and now get the low oil pressure buzzer in the summer heat, so I thought to swap them out.


As for installing the bearings, I went with what I will call the "Bearing Sandwich" method.


I did modify what is pictured with a lock washer, because the first time I hammered on it a few times, it fell apart. If you look through the shaft hole, you can see the inner bearing and you can clearly see where the hole is in the block.


You can also see the hole with the oil pan removed looking up through the crankshaft.

I was able to sneak the handle end of a long round file into the shaft hole, and make a light scratch in the engine block to mark exactly where the hole in the block is to orient the new bearing, because with the bearing sandwich in there you won't be able to see where the hole is, obviously. I then marked the bearing sandwich where the hole is.


I also marked where the hole is on the bearing itself with sharpie on the outside edge. I then aligned the marking on the bearing sandwich with the scratch I made on the engine block and lightly hammered to stick it in place, and made sure my marks exactly lined up. The leading washer was the same one I used to hammer out the inner bearing, so I knew it had clearance through the bore, and it helped to guide the sandwich into the bore. So once I had it aligned and stuck in place where I wanted, which took a few tries, I then supported the handle of the bearing sandwhich, and got up and snuck a wrench through the vacuum pump port and undid the nut on the bearing sandwich, because I figured hammering too much on the bearing sandwich would make it fall apart. Then I could hammer away on the bearing with just the back washer, and since I marked the bearing itself with sharpie, I could still make sure that mark lined up with the scratches on the engine block, and so the holes would be aligned. It would have helped to have a longer rod, as it was a bit of a pain to hold it a long time and hammer on it in a tight spot, but I made it work. I got the bearing in, and could see the hole in the block and on the bearing line up with a small mirror through the vacuum pump port. The picture here is with the old bearing in with oil settled on it. The hole is at about 2 o'clock when looking through the shaft hole, so is at about 10 o'clock looking through the vacuum pump port. I was able to sneak a finger in there too to actually feel where the hole is, but those with larger hands might not be able to do that, it is a tight spot, but can be seen easily enough with a mirror and light.


I went ahead and stuck a curved piece of wire into the hole as I watched with a mirror, just to make sure it was indeed a hole and not a mirage. Plus as I hammered the bearing in, I went slow to make sure I didn't overshoot, and would check through the vacuum port and could see the hole in the bearing lining up with the hole in the block.

After doing that, the outer bearing was a breeze. And the holes in the bearings lined up very close to perfect with the hole in the engine block. The holes in the bearings are larger than the holes in the block, so there is slight leeway, and so the engine block holes were not obstructed in the least bit. So this is totally doable and not too difficult, I'm just an ameteur, working on gravel and without fancy tools. It can also be done without disturbing the timing, but I went ahead and removed the belt to go down another rabbit hole. End of the day, the shaft went in and was solid with zero play, and I fired her up, got the engine good and warm, and sure enough, still got the oil pressure buzzer! My pressure gauge reads zero (0) improvement in oil pressure. It gets down to about 13psi at the head @2k rpm on a hot summer day, 21psi at the oil cooler, and down to 8psi at idle getting off the highway. Zero (0) improvement, just sad, all I needed was a couple psi for now. But at least it's not leaking oil like it was. Pretty sure the play in the shaft opened up the seal to leak oil, but couldn't tell for sure where it was coming from since oil was everywhere.

Anyway, I have some measurements here of the bearings and shaft journals:

Outer Bearing
ID New 1.697"
ID Used 1.686 - 1.717
Journal 1.692
Thickness New 0.061
Thickness Used 0.050 - 0.066

Inner Bearing
ID New 1.658
ID Used 1.647 - 1.667
Journal 1.652
Thickness New 0.061
Thickness Used 0.056 - 0.068

The bold and underlined numbers are the measurements at the hole in the bearing, so it is interesting to note that the outer bearing wore down about 180 degrees from the hole, and the inner bearing wore down at the hole, so the load for the outer bearing is quite literally the opposite side of where the hole is, and for the inner bearing the load is pretty much right where the hole is. I suppose the lead babbit material wears and gets pushed to the opposite side of the bearing to make it thicker in that spot.

Finally, picture of the old bearings with part numbers:

 
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garciapiano

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 12, 2018
Location
Southern California
TDI
1997 Jetta TDI (1Z)
I have determined that the biggest culprits in these engines experiencing low oil pressure is related to this bearing and the lifter bores and cam journals. Think of them as the unholy trinity whose sole purpose is to convince you that the ALH is a superior engine architecture.

Frustrating, to be sure.
 

Benjamis

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 17, 2021
Location
Due east of Cincinnati, Ohio
TDI
1996 B4V 1Z 318k
I checked the cam journals with plastigage as outlined in Bentley and they were all well within spec. As for the lifter bores, not sure, they did have some pitting and some minor gouges where someone went it there and dinged it up. But I ended up putting a brand new cam and lifters in. The lifters all went in with minimal clearance. Shoulda woulda did the rod and main bearings and rings while I was in there.
 
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