Integrated Engineering connecting rods

Helven Ink

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I was recently persuaded to get the Integrated Engineering 1.9 TDi connecting rods for my engine. They are very strong rods, but I feel a bit put off. the first set that I received had a manufacturing defect on one of them and they quickly replaced the set. I then had an issue where I had to get another new set of rod bearings because they designed them to use the 1.8 turbo rod bearings, and now I'm facing the problem where I need to grind down part of my #4 cylinder to make the #4 rod fit. I was fine with all of this, but it's been less than a month since I've run into these problems and they have fixed all of these issues, which is good on them, but am I wrong in feeling a bit put off by them since I was apparently used as a guinea pig? Am I lazy for not wanting to have to grind away at my engine block with a dremel for an hour or so? (it's the only tool I have available to me right now that could do this.) when they have redesigned the rods and their manufacturing standards to avoid these problems entirely, based in part on my complaints?

Is this even the right section to post this?
 

Powder Hound

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This is probably the right place to post a question about an aftermarket performance part. As to the answers to your questions, I have none. But I will say this about having to work on your block.

IMO, if you can grind a little on the block to make a con rod fit, I think I would prefer that to trying to have the design of the rod altered (read: compromised) in order to fit a block that wasn't really designed to be a very high output part in the first place.

Now, if they decided that it was indeed a design flaw or some mistake in the rod and a rod reconfigure was in their best interests, and such changes were made, I don't see why they wouldn't supply you with updated and/or upgraded parts that would reflect the latest and greatest.

It goes along with how they want to run the company, I guess. If the product you receive works, and you didn't demand a refund because of the fitment issue, then I'd figure you got a product that you were willing to put up with.

I seriously doubt they'd redesign based on your one complaint, however. So it is hard to figure out if the company would think it is worth the trouble to replace everyone's con rods rather than just placate the loudest complainers.

I know it doesn't help much.

No, I don't think you're lazy. If you knew they were going to redesign the rods, would you have waited? Did you have the time and patience to wait? Could you have known how long it would take to get updated parts done? Some companies promise fixed designs, but the fixes either take years, never appear at all, or the company dries up and blows away.

There's no way to get a good comfortable answer.

So, now that the labors are done, and the engine is back together (or is it?) how to those con rods work?
 

Helven Ink

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I haven't had a chance to put my block back together yet. I was told I could just drop those con rods in (save for the regular clearance and tolerance checks) and go. When I spun the flywheel the #4 rod hit the cylinder wall and I had to pull everything apart again. :p I need to get a new set of main bearing cap bolts now too because I gotta pull the crank out in order to grind the cylinder.
The change they made that I was most interested in is tapering the little end of the con rod down by 1mm so that it has plenty of clearance in the cylinder. I don't think it'll make the rod much weaker, as they are already made from 4340 chrome nickel moly steel.

I've got 5 classes this semester, so my free time is limited. I was hoping to be able to put my car back together over spring break in a couple weeks, but this issue with the grinding means I've got more work than I can accomplish in order to get my pistons back into the block and order a head gasket based on my new piston projection before spring break.
Maybe if I can get the cylinder ground down and the pistons installed really quickly I can put a rush on the head gasket and get in before my break is over.

Just for clarification, I'm not so arrogant as to think my complaints alone resulted in the re-design. I thought I said I was just a part of the complaint/redesign process they seem to have undergone.
 

LiLredTDI

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They owe you something for your hassle as well as a refund for any bolts etc that were one time use that you had to scrap and start again. They sold you something that THEY said would work. It did not work and could not work. Therefore they owe you.
 

devonmikeyboy

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If i was you are talking about 1.9PD rods i would be well pissed off. Rosten have had 1.9 rods forged rods for sale for years that fit with no problems.
 

mk3pd

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Maybe it would seem wrong of me to reply to this topic,since probably someone will think i am just trying to bash the Integrated rods,which is not my intention.

I am the owner of Rosten-performance for those that don't know.
And i have sold TDI/PD H-beam rods for some time now.

This topic clearly shows that IT IS actually some work involved in making a rod that actually does fit,and not just "modify a 144mm gasoline rod to fit"

First time i saw a picture of the Integrated TDI rod,i just knew it would not work without lots of modifications.
But,i felt it was no meaning for me to try and tell that to the seller,because it would probably been looked at as "bashing his product"

My rods are more expensive,yes.
But they do actually fit even in the older TDI's with shaft driven oil pump.
They also have a tapered small end which allow use of PD150 pistons.
And they are made for TDI bearings (which is rather important) + they weighs less.

The reason why they actually does fit,is because i actually TRIED to test fit these BEFORE i started selling them.
I spent quite a few weekends with milled plastic models that i made up in my little shop,before i found the right rod to use.

I will probably be bashed as hell for this reply
Oh well :)
 

loudspl

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I have had the SAME issues....go figure. Actually we are in the process of getting a rod replaced by them...good customer service but poor R & D apparently!

If you look at the build of their rod vs. the Rostens the I.E. ones look better...stronger, that is. But then again few if any ppl have had issues with bending/compressing Rostens. Seems like after they hear this from a few TDIs they will revise the manufacturing process and produce a much better product..
 

FlyTDI Guy

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mk3pd said:
Maybe it would seem wrong of me to reply to this topic,since probably someone will think i am just trying to bash the Integrated rods,which is not my intention.

I am the owner of Rosten-performance for those that don't know.
And i have sold TDI/PD H-beam rods for some time now.

This topic clearly shows that IT IS actually some work involved in making a rod that actually does fit,and not just "modify a 144mm gasoline rod to fit"

First time i saw a picture of the Integrated TDI rod,i just knew it would not work without lots of modifications.
But,i felt it was no meaning for me to try and tell that to the seller,because it would probably been looked at as "bashing his product"

My rods are more expensive,yes.
But they do actually fit even in the older TDI's with shaft driven oil pump.
They also have a tapered small end which allow use of PD150 pistons.
And they are made for TDI bearings (which is rather important) + they weighs less.

The reason why they actually does fit,is because i actually TRIED to test fit these BEFORE i started selling them.
I spent quite a few weekends with milled plastic models that i made up in my little shop,before i found the right rod to use.

I will probably be bashed as hell for this replyOh well :)

I would certainly hope not... then again, this forum is full of that kind of thing. I, for one, welcome anything you may want to add to the fray here.
 

GoFaster

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LiLredTDI said:
They owe you something for your hassle as well as a refund for any bolts etc that were one time use that you had to scrap and start again. They sold you something that THEY said would work. It did not work and could not work. Therefore they owe you.
Unfortunately, that ain't the way it works in the world of hot-rodding and engine building.
 

Vince Waldon

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IE's current design evidently has been changed to fit all blocks without clearancing *and* now accepts the standard TDI rod bearings, fwiw.

I'll know for sure in a week or two as a set is on the way.;)
 

ronbros

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as i remember like 50yrs back, all hi-performance modifications came with no garuentees or warrenties of any kind.
it was up to the user to make parts fit, if you do not have the ability,you should not use said components.

of course lawyers were not so prevelent back then.
 

LiLredTDI

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ronbros said:
as i remember like 50yrs back, all hi-performance modifications came with no garuentees or warrenties of any kind.
it was up to the user to make parts fit, if you do not have the ability,you should not use said components.

of course lawyers were not so prevelent back then.
I disagree. There are a few products that come to mind that state they fit our cars with no modifications. If that is the case.............THEY SHOULD FIT! Did you read the above post from the fella from rosten? He used plastic props until he KNEW his fab was on point. If you make something for a particular purpose, make it 100% not 90%. Would you buy a car with three wheels? Comn fellas, make people accountable.
 

Helven Ink

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For clarification, IE didn't sell me rods directly, nor did they assure me they would fit, that claim came from a third party.
From what I understand, they had 2 blocks that they were testing their rods on, and they fit perfectly... in those two blocks. Also something I have come to hear is that the TDi blocks are cast in molds that are assembled by hand and have a pretty good chance of being wider on one side than the other. I don't know any of this for sure, but it's what I've heard. My block is apparently a little narrower on the #4 side as that is the only rod that doesn't clear.
I didn't want a refund, I had hoped to have my rods swapped for the current revision, but I didn't expect it. I just wanted someplace to vent where people would understand what I was talking about, because I don't get that from people I know in town.

mk3pd: I never had any doubt in my mind that it was difficult to engineer... anything, for a car, let alone a performance diesel. ;) Originally, I was looking into getting the Roston rods, but the guy I bought the IE rods from persuaded me to get the IE; he was offering both the IE and the Roston to me for the same price.
 

Whitbread

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Myself and Frank06 are the reason's IE rod's were redesigned. We raised a little bit of hell with them to say the least.

When I assembled Loudspl's motor, I found out the hard way that these rods didn't "drop in" as they were claimed to. When you're building a 383 chevy, you know you're going to have to grind, and you prepare for it. When you're assembling a motor with rods that are supposed to drop in, finding out you need to grind is a major setback. Especially when you find out on the #3 cylinder when you already have 1&2 knocked in and have all the accessories bolted on the block.

After that whole mess, I'm extremely glad I have a set of Rostens going in my motor. And needless to say, I'll be putting Geir's rods in any motor I build from now on. I try to support anything made in USA, but it's very hard to on this one.
 

devonutopia

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Wow! After reading this I am glad I went for Rostens. Perfect fit on both the piston and in the engine. No worries.
 

Bush Hopper

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IE Rods and Scat Rods are forged in china out Chinese metal, machined in the states.


I hope Rosten doesn't do the Chinese trick.

Best rods on the market are Carrillo rods. You can support American made with no problems. :) just need to pay extra.
 

mrchill

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I have IE rods on the shelf as well as Rosten. I had Rosten first. I like them They work well and the fit and weight balance is excellent. The IE rods are good too. I like the fact that I can get them rifled. Thats a bonus. I would try Carillo, but at 1250 a set, I can buy 2 sets of PROVEN Rostens or 2.3 sets of IE for the same money.
 

Got Bearings?

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Flying Kasper said:
IE Rods and Scat Rods are forged in china out Chinese metal, machined in the states.


I hope Rosten doesn't do the Chinese trick.
Are you saying Scat products are inferior because of their Chinese orgins? If so, please explain how.
 

13mmwrench

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to be on the good side i have seen a set of the new batch of IE rods and they fixed all of the problem areas and they are what i will be putting in next winter (i do know the owners of IE so i might be a bit bias) but they really do try to get things right and are engineered here in utah. it was only the first batch that was machined for the wrong bearings
 

hatemi

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Pretty much all of the "afordable" rods are made in china. Most of the known brands.
 

Bush Hopper

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Got Bearings? said:
Are you saying Scat products are inferior because of their Chinese orgins? If so, please explain how.
When it comes to chinese products, like scat rods forgings, I doubt the quality of the materials. When scat orders 1000 rods, 250 sets or so, which is a very small quantity, I doubt any manufacture will take them seriously when it comes to making sure they used 100% correct raw materials. To make sure your do get the right stuff, you need to have some sort of quality control.

When you order stuff from China, there are no refunds once it leaves the port. I know countless guys who tried to order exhaust manifolds to end up throwing out $50,000 into the garbage. Or they had to spend money to fix it before sale.

So To have proper quality control from china, you need to be there, or hire or have someone there inspecting the quality. Chinese standards are not the same. 304 SS could be 302SS and they wont ever tell you.
Not all supplies are like that, some are very honest, but if you start asking for the best price, they will not cut into there own profits but buy cheaper raw materials. Again the supplier of raw materials will also cheap out on quality before cutting into profits.

Its not because they cant do it. China can, and does make great products. Its just that you have to pay for it. Most companies go to china for the best deal, not best quality.

I am personally a fan of Norinco and Polly Technologies Rifles. They are very high quality rifles. the M14S made in China is one of the best ever made. It will out shoot the Spring field version.

VW also makes parts in China, but they actually own or have share in the companies. That gives them total quality control. Chinese workers are just as capable as any other nation.

My opinions are based on politics and economy.

1000 rods is nothing, and unless they have some really good business partner, I doubt the quality of the material. I personally have a set of scat rods for my 2.0 16v 9a block. Yes, they look good, and I do not see anything wrong with it. I paid $499 for the set. Carrillo charges $950. I will still use Scat rods, for my 2.0 16v 9a block.
But any future builds, I am going Carrillo just for piece of mind.

If you want the best, rods, on the market, which are made by the best known company to me, Carrillo rods. Any motorcycle, car, boat, f3000, or major motor sport racer/mechanic/tuner, knows Carrillo.

Now if your building a full engine, going all out, does $500 really brake your bank? Id go for Carrillio. Best rods IMHO.

Just my opinion
 
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13mmwrench

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yeah carrillio rods are beautiful my brother has a set for a toyota motor he is putting together with a formula atlantic crankshaft but for most people that are building a street or weekend car carrillio rods are out of their league and far more than they will ever stress a rod to. so it really all depends on how far you feel you will push a motor i have set of wossner rods in my vr6t corrado and i'm sure they are over kill but they keep me from sweating when i hit the track and i push everything for 20 min at a time.
 

tothemax

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Where are Rosten rods made pls?

Is any part of the manufacturing process in China?

mk3pd said:
............

I am the owner of Rosten-performance for those that don't know.
And i have sold TDI/PD H-beam rods for some time now.
........... :)
 

87turboquattro

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funny,the only problem i've seen of the chinese rotating assemblies is in the finish tolerances that the american companies do to them.we build "alot" of boat/marine engines and unless were going over 1200hp,the eagle and now liberty brand rod and cranks are fine.personally saw a rod and pin be the only thing left in the bore after a valve dropped at 6200rpm.(big azz blower motor).
so like everything,the end user needs to be the qc engineer of every part,american or chinese.and should a part fail,get the chemical make up of the part,if it doesn't check out,guess what,you get paid to do a new engine.
 

Bush Hopper

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87turboquattro said:
funny,the only problem i've seen of the chinese rotating assemblies is in the finish tolerances that the american companies do to them.we build "alot" of boat/marine engines and unless were going over 1200hp,the eagle and now liberty brand rod and cranks are fine.personally saw a rod and pin be the only thing left in the bore after a valve dropped at 6200rpm.(big azz blower motor).
so like everything,the end user needs to be the qc engineer of every part,american or chinese.and should a part fail,get the chemical make up of the part,if it doesn't check out,guess what,you get paid to do a new engine.
Well, if your engine fails, and the chemical check out doesn't match with the standards you ordered. How will you make the manufacture pay for a new motor?

Law suite? Its not that easy. Dont like saw suites cost a fortune?

Well, its just cheaper to avoid it all by getting the best you can. Carrillo rods.
 

MAXRPM

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I was just about to take my motor apart and install my IE rods and now I am reading this post damn, al least i will postpone the tear down until I figure out which route I would need to take.
 
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Got Bearings?

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Kasper,
That's a huge paint brush you're using... not to mention all the assumptions about Scat or any other company doing business with Chinese products. As long as their is good QC on both sides, there shouldn't be a problem with their products. What it comes down to is putting the company and it's rep on the line for inferior products. Somehow, I don't think they would go that way right now. It would be a matter of time before they go out of business. Word travels fast in the engine building/racing world.

I have Scat forged rods and crank in my 383 SBC and I used to drag race it all the time. I beat on it and it still keeps going... and it has a lot more power than the TDI. My engine builder said I was safe to use up to a 225 shot of nitrous since the bottom end will hold it. I sold my nitrous set up when I decided to stop drag racing... so I can't tell you what it holds. But it does spin up to 6700 RPMs and put down over 450 ft lbs of TQ.

In the end, you should be skeptical of ANY product regardless of orgin. Junk is everywhere and unfortunately, it's up to the end user to sift through it.
 

87turboquattro

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MAXRPM said:
I was just about to take my motor apart and install my IE rods and now I am reading this post damn, al least i will postpone the tear down until I figure out which route I would need to take.
just use the rods,there stronger than what the head bolts/studs will hold.or if your scared,thank kasper,i'll take them.and i'll beat that engine harder than if someone stole it.;)
 
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