Intake ports on head

UhOh

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 24, 2014
Location
PNW
TDI
2003 Golf GLS (2005 Mercedes E320 CDI)
About the same thing i did. I used a screwdriver to loosen it a bit, nothing fell in, and then wiped outward with my thumb. Nothing moved but what I had worked loose a little at the edge. I just don't see this stuff coming loose down the road. I would be more worried if I scraped this stuff off and vacuumed it out, and the vacuum didn't pick something up.
I ran a vacuum over the ports just for an added element of safety, though, like you, I didn't go gouging down in to the ports.

The main driver for even bothering was that I didn't want to dislodge that lip when I bolted the intake back up.

WARNING to anyone stumbling across this thread in the future: if you are NOT sure that nothing is going to dislodge and fall in toward the valve then it's advised that you do NOT try to do what is being discussed here. Each is responsible for their own decisions. Every situation, no matter how similar it may seem to another, is different.
 

harley1955

Well-known member
Joined
May 5, 2013
Location
Taylorville, Illinois
TDI
2001 Jetta GLS
The middle 2 have more build up than the outer ones do. I'm beginning to wonder what it would cost to have someone pull the head and send it to Franko6 to be reworked or swapped out later on.
 

UhOh

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 24, 2014
Location
PNW
TDI
2003 Golf GLS (2005 Mercedes E320 CDI)
My middle two ports also were worse than the outers (picture I have uploaded now is one of the outer ports): if you want I can upload a picture of them.

Why do you feel that you need the head "reworked?" If you don't mind your car being laid up, that you want to make it a bigger project, then not a big deal I'd think. For me I can't afford any extended downtime.
 

harley1955

Well-known member
Joined
May 5, 2013
Location
Taylorville, Illinois
TDI
2001 Jetta GLS
Oh I was just wondering how bad all that stuff being in there is on the engine, cause problems down the road, or if it really doesn't matter that much. This is my 1st diesel and TDI I've owned.
 

UhOh

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 24, 2014
Location
PNW
TDI
2003 Golf GLS (2005 Mercedes E320 CDI)
Oh I was just wondering how bad all that stuff being in there is on the engine, cause problems down the road, or if it really doesn't matter that much. This is my 1st diesel and TDI I've owned.
I was in the EXACT same boat!

I'm pretty certain that the "destroyed the engine from flaked carbon while cleaning intake and EGR" episodes are few and far in between, that most were likely from early attempts at cleaning intakes ON the car.

I totally agree that valves could catch big chunks of crap. If you've got the intake manifold and EGR valve (cooler OK?*) clean then that leaves only the ports, and the ports you can pretty much see what you have (can't see inside the manifold, unless, that is, you have a bore scope). AND, as you can see for your own eyes, the bulk of anything substantial lies right there at the opening and is therefore easy enough to get out of there.

* My cooler (see my pictures) had a fair amount of crap at the junction to the EGR valve. At first I panicked. Then I realized that it's a straight through pipe and that BOTH ends were disconnected (to do the work), so I just scraped that "lip" out and then blew and and vacuumed it.

The performance of my car is likely as good as any similar car that has a squeaky clean head, so I very much doubt that you have to worry about what you're seeing in the head being an impediment to performance. AND, while I have speculated that performance mods "might" increase the odds of dislodging any residual crap I'm pretty sure that there's been plenty of folks out there that have done performance mods with some levels of preexisting intake clogging and have not had things blow up.

Stuff that lines the walls of the ports is pretty much baked on and ain't going anywhere.
 
Last edited:

KLXD

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 22, 2009
Location
Lompoc, CA
TDI
'98, '2 Jettas
As I stated, mods, I'm talking performance mods, are going to result in more power. More power can ONLY be derived if there is more air and fuel. In the case of the intake pathway we're talking air, more air, air that is likely being pushed harder and longer (by the turbo).

Physics supports this.

How much of a threat? I have no idea. My point was really not so much about modding as it was slapping the intake back on with only minor cleaning (of the entrance to the head ports), that it's unlikely that you're going to be creating any additional forces that would cause soot buildup (which has been firmly in place) to break loose.



All fine and good. I, however, operate based on probabilities, as just about anything is possible (given enough time).
I don't know why you think I'm saying anything contradicting the fact that more air and fuel will yield more power.

You opined that the buildup left in the port wouldn't affect power output. I agreed. Then I said the reason to clean the ports isn't for power it's to keep junk from breaking loose.

The buildup accumulated over thousands of miles with a well established flow pattern. That pattern is now changed.

Maybe ypur finger wipe porting job done at the interface is enough to keep stuff from coming off. Maybe anything that comes off will cause no harm.

Another hour of cleaning, if that, gets rid of it all. An air gun will blow it out of the port. A light and mirror verifies it. No more maybes.

But I agree. You do your thing, I'll do mine, Harley can do his and hopefully no one has to talk to Frank.
 
Last edited:

DavidMTroyer

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2004
Location
Pittsburgh, PA
TDI
1999.5 Jetta
I was in the EXACT same boat!
* My cooler (see my pictures) had a fair amount of crap at the junction to the EGR valve. At first I panicked. Then I realized that it's a straight through pipe and that BOTH ends were disconnected (to do the work), so I just scraped that "lip" out and then blew and and vacuumed it.
I failed to find an egr cooler in your pics, but mine was fairly plugged so I hit it pretty hard with a pressure washer and got all sorts of crap out of it.
 

harley1955

Well-known member
Joined
May 5, 2013
Location
Taylorville, Illinois
TDI
2001 Jetta GLS
David, I'm doing an EGR delete, cooler and all. No way I'm having this stuff build up again.

KLXD, I'd love to get these ports cleaned out, hate the thought of leaving the stuff in there. Think I'm going to pick up a pick set today. I have a compressor and vacuum to use, I was worried I wouldn't be able to get all the loose stuff out of there. I'm not really sure what the inside chamber looks like, any hidden area I can't see?
 

DavidMTroyer

Veteran Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2004
Location
Pittsburgh, PA
TDI
1999.5 Jetta
You should be able to see everything with a mirror and a bright flashlight or headlamp. The one exception being down by the valve seat and the head of the valve, you can't very well see down there but it is probably best to leave that alone anyhow.
 

harley1955

Well-known member
Joined
May 5, 2013
Location
Taylorville, Illinois
TDI
2001 Jetta GLS
Well, 1 down 3 to go. Pick set helps a lot. Just got to be patient, pick, vacuum, pick, vacuum, etc. The stuff near the outside had a harder consistency, the further in i went it became more flaky. Didn't seem to be too much on the back wall. Didn't mess with the valve. The entire opening down to the valve is to the bare metal now. Looks much better.
 

harley1955

Well-known member
Joined
May 5, 2013
Location
Taylorville, Illinois
TDI
2001 Jetta GLS
2nd one done. Did 1 of the middle ones, 2nd from the front of the motor. It was so bad I couldn't see the valve. Going to close the valves on the other middle one and do it next, save the easy one for last.
 

harley1955

Well-known member
Joined
May 5, 2013
Location
Taylorville, Illinois
TDI
2001 Jetta GLS
3rd one done, 3rd from the front, the other middle one. it wasn't as bad as the other one. Tracking these to give people an idea how long it takes to do. Think it's been an hour n half per port for me.
 

UhOh

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 24, 2014
Location
PNW
TDI
2003 Golf GLS (2005 Mercedes E320 CDI)
Well, you inspired me to do my wife's car:D Had it on the list to do: had only planned on replacing the door lock control module (did that), but figured I just get the manifold taken care of sooner rather than later (as spring sets in and all my other stuff starts calling my name).

Unlike the ports on my head the ports on her head were crappy, probably like yours. All got cleaned: yeah, it's fun listening to the crap get sucked up in the vacuum. Her car runs even better than before, which, surprisingly, given how crudded up things were, actually ran pretty darn well: I'm still perplexed as to why my car was so much worse yet its head ports were way better- I suspect it was just the blockage after the EGR valve.

Will be interested in seeing if there's improvements in her fuel mileage.

Anyway, now have two cars running tip-top. Don't expect to encounter clogging problems again.
 

harley1955

Well-known member
Joined
May 5, 2013
Location
Taylorville, Illinois
TDI
2001 Jetta GLS
I'm just about done on mine. Need to plug a couple of vacuum lines and I want to loosen my intercooler hose and be sure I don't have a bunch of oil sitting there before I fire it up. Probably will wrap things up tonight. I hope after all this work i at least get a few more mpg... :)
 

UhOh

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 24, 2014
Location
PNW
TDI
2003 Golf GLS (2005 Mercedes E320 CDI)
I'm just about done on mine. Need to plug a couple of vacuum lines and I want to loosen my intercooler hose and be sure I don't have a bunch of oil sitting there before I fire it up. Probably will wrap things up tonight. I hope after all this work i at least get a few more mpg... :)
Drill and tap in the low(est) spot on your IC on the output side (past the cooler): in front of the right front wheel well. It's part of the plastic container that houses the cooler. I think I drilled in to or close to the rased datecode(?) "casting." You then run a small sheet metal screw (something with a wide head, one that looks like it has a washer attached is good) to plug it back up. When you change your oil just pull this screw out and drain what's there and you should never have a lot of accumulation (shouldn't anyway if you drive right) that would feed a runaway. If you need a picture I can see if I can snap one for you: swapped cars with the wife today so I can repair her door card.

Are you removing your EGR valve?

You're going to be amazed at how well your car runs now! The difference was a lot greater with my car than with my wife's, but with hers it's still very noticeable (and worth it).
 

UhOh

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 24, 2014
Location
PNW
TDI
2003 Golf GLS (2005 Mercedes E320 CDI)
Looks like mine did. How did you get the head ports so clean?
Cheated:D Actually, those pictures were probably of the less-mucky-to-begin-with ports (maybe just #1?). I think that that one I was able to get a small wire brush inside: I kind of deviated from that with the others (maybe hitting just a bit) because the others were harder to get my brush in (and, I just got to the point of "it's good enough"). Screw driver to gouge out the initial stuff. Then used a seal pick.

I think that it took about 4 hours to do the cleaning. Total time was something like 7 hours (maybe a bit less). My knees were killing me! My fingers are the sorest, but that's from cleaning her wheels! (marathon session [when the weather is good I take full advantage]; reinstalled her summer tires/wheels)

Does anyone know whether when dealers cleans intakes that they do the head ports too?
 

UhOh

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 24, 2014
Location
PNW
TDI
2003 Golf GLS (2005 Mercedes E320 CDI)
Yeah i've seen a video on youtube of that being done so i will probably do it to prevent any oil buildup. Yes, I deleted the egr and cooler.
Remember that that EGR valve has the ASV in it and that you're going to experience a bit of a shudder when turning off the ignition. Also, that ASV provides some extra level of protection against runaways: your monitoring oil consumption (and checking/draining IC) should pretty much keep you clear of that scenario).
 

UhOh

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 24, 2014
Location
PNW
TDI
2003 Golf GLS (2005 Mercedes E320 CDI)
I may end up doing a stealth egr, just haven't got around to it yet.
Not sure if it would apply to our cars or not, but I thought that after so many years the emissions were no longer an issue? (Up in BC, Canada folks can rip stuff off to their hearts' desire now that they did away with Air Care) Someone here, I believe, modded a stock EGR valve in order to retain the ASV: if/when the time comes for me to deal with a bad cooler I'd look to go this route.

I'm really itching to hear your reactions from your first test drive:D If I wasn't in the midst of fixing the door card on my wife's car I'd be out driving it:D
 

UhOh

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Dec 24, 2014
Location
PNW
TDI
2003 Golf GLS (2005 Mercedes E320 CDI)
Wow! Night and day difference. must have been pretty plugged when I brought it. No emissions test here in Illinois, that's why I went with a egr delete. Drilled the cooler, had at least a cup of oil in there. Here's the link to the stealth egr.

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?p=711141
Cars are pretty nice when they're running like they're supposed to!

Yeah, that's the stealth EGR valve that I was thinking of.
 
Top