harley1955
Well-known member
Was wondering just how far into the ports on the head to go when cleaning them out?
Intake ports on head
- Thread starter harley1955
- Start date
Do you know how bad they are?
My limited experience (with only one car) was that the greatest buildup occurs right at junction points. In my photos I have a picture of one of my ports on the head. I just flicked the crusty edge off. While there's still some soot build-up within the ports I don't think it's very much; and, based on the clogging I see in my wife's car and how well it still runs I believe that lesser amounts really don't have much measurable effect on performance/operation: I suspect that it might only really be an issue with big mods.
My limited experience (with only one car) was that the greatest buildup occurs right at junction points. In my photos I have a picture of one of my ports on the head. I just flicked the crusty edge off. While there's still some soot build-up within the ports I don't think it's very much; and, based on the clogging I see in my wife's car and how well it still runs I believe that lesser amounts really don't have much measurable effect on performance/operation: I suspect that it might only really be an issue with big mods.
harley1955
Well-known member
At least an eighth of an inch.
harley1955
Well-known member
Took a look at your pic, mine are worse. Take a look at my pics and you can see what the ports on the intake looked like.
Also, for reference, the EGR valve side of your intake looks about like that on my wife's car. Her car's performance is still pretty good (slight drop around 3200rpm, but it's very minimal); may car's performance, in comparison, was just horrible.
Your EGR valve looks like it's having issues. Might be the weep hole, in addition to the seal crapping out (my pics of "Tanka's" EGR valve and intake show that it was spitting oil out the connection to the intake- not real bad, but enough to make a mess and to be concerned). I'm about 3k miles on my cheap $100 new EGR valve (from FixMyVW) and it seems to be working well: I'd bought it for my wife's car, but figured better to experiment on my car (and I didn't feel like cleaning my old one while in the midst of doing the manifold swap [had to clean the "clean" used one I bought off of ebay]).
Your EGR valve looks like it's having issues. Might be the weep hole, in addition to the seal crapping out (my pics of "Tanka's" EGR valve and intake show that it was spitting oil out the connection to the intake- not real bad, but enough to make a mess and to be concerned). I'm about 3k miles on my cheap $100 new EGR valve (from FixMyVW) and it seems to be working well: I'd bought it for my wife's car, but figured better to experiment on my car (and I didn't feel like cleaning my old one while in the midst of doing the manifold swap [had to clean the "clean" used one I bought off of ebay]).
harley1955
Well-known member
Not yet but give me an hour and I'll have them. 
I'll keep my fingers crossed that you'll really only have a buildup at the lip.Not yet but give me an hour and I'll have them.
I suspect that whatever you find I'll find the same with my wife's car: pretty similar looking buildup.
harley1955
Well-known member
http://pics.tdiclub.com/showphoto.php?photo=110934&title=head-port-1&cat=all
http://pics.tdiclub.com/showphoto.php?photo=110935&title=head-port-2&cat=all
http://pics.tdiclub.com/showphoto.php?photo=110936&title=head-port-3&cat=all
http://pics.tdiclub.com/showphoto.php?photo=110943&title=head-port-4&cat=all
http://pics.tdiclub.com/showphoto.php?photo=110935&title=head-port-2&cat=all
http://pics.tdiclub.com/showphoto.php?photo=110936&title=head-port-3&cat=all
http://pics.tdiclub.com/showphoto.php?photo=110943&title=head-port-4&cat=all
DavidMTroyer
Veteran Member
The intake ports on mine were pretty bad on my recent egr/intake cleaning. I basically cleaned until I got all of the big loose chunks and there wasn't a lip for new oil/soot to catch on. This means I cleaned almost all the way to the back wall of the port. I was hesitant to do much around the valve.
Just make sure the intake valve is closed for the port you're working on and vacuum out all the loose carbon. I found taking the valve cover off and visually inspecting the lifters to be the best way to do this, as the port was too clogged up to tell where the valve was at by visual inspection through the port.
Just make sure the intake valve is closed for the port you're working on and vacuum out all the loose carbon. I found taking the valve cover off and visually inspecting the lifters to be the best way to do this, as the port was too clogged up to tell where the valve was at by visual inspection through the port.
DavidMTroyer
Veteran Member
Yeah, that's about what mine looked like.
If you [carefully] knock off a bit of that lip you'll probably see that it's not nearly as thick past the rim area.
I think that in order to do it right, to make it all nice and clean, you're looking at a fair amount of work, more than the rest of the job. And, frankly, I don't think that the added work is really going to make much difference (in relation to the necessary work and the associated risks- the more stuff you pull apart the more chances that something else will go wrong).
I think that in order to do it right, to make it all nice and clean, you're looking at a fair amount of work, more than the rest of the job. And, frankly, I don't think that the added work is really going to make much difference (in relation to the necessary work and the associated risks- the more stuff you pull apart the more chances that something else will go wrong).
harley1955
Well-known member
Well I'm done for the night, torched the intake this evening, posted about that. Going to tackle the head tomorrow. Thanks for the advice.
KLXD
Top Post Dawg
The issue isn't the power loss it's junk left in the port. The flow through it has been changed. Is it going to stay put?
I get as much as I can out with smoothed, bent hacksaw blades, air gun and vac.
I get as much as I can out with smoothed, bent hacksaw blades, air gun and vac.
Fuel + Air = power. By cleaning the intake you're cleaning the air part of the equation. If you don't have power loss then, by that simple equation, it means that you aren't likely going to experience any significant increases in air flow (otherwise you would experience increased POWER [see equation]).
IF, as I've noted elsewhere, you're going to be doing mods, THEN I'd agree that you'd be looking at an increased risk from not cleaning (though, again, it depends on the degree of buildup).
I'm curious as to how much clogging crud resides past the lip area. In my car it was not of any real significance.
I'm as anal as the next person, but I do understand that there comes a point at which one encounters a point of diminishing returns.
harley1955
Well-known member
Ok, how do i tell if a port is closed after removing the valve cover? What am I looking for?
harley1955
Well-known member
So counting from the left it appears that 2 and 4 are closed?
Picture (the one you linked to) shows enough for cylinders 1 and 2 (do I have that right, that #1 is to the front of the engine?). Both of these cylinders look like they have valves that might be open, second and forth cam lobes are down: definitely the second cam lobe, not sure about the forth.
harley1955
Well-known member
yes, going by pic 4051 where you can see all 8 of them, from the left, 1 is up, 2 is down, 3 is up, 4 is up, 5 is up, 6 is down, 7 & 8 are up.
I would concentrate on getting ONE cylinder's cam's free and clear at a time. That should remove ALL doubt on whether you're good enough.
Lobes 7 & 8 are the only ones that I can clearly see both sides of its ramps. That cylinder is a good one to go for. I wouldn't want to give the thumbs up on any others as this is no place to not be 100% certain: eliminate ALL doubts, that way you won't need to be questioning anything after the fact.
Lobes 7 & 8 are the only ones that I can clearly see both sides of its ramps. That cylinder is a good one to go for. I wouldn't want to give the thumbs up on any others as this is no place to not be 100% certain: eliminate ALL doubts, that way you won't need to be questioning anything after the fact.
harley1955
Well-known member
Gotcha. I'll start with that one then and go from there. Bet this takes a while.
Any time you're facing something very important for the first time it's a good idea to take your time. It's really hard to be patient (I suffer from impatience, so I know how hard it can be). The reward, however, will be that you won't have to feel like you're looking back over your shoulder when the job is done; you'll be able to fully enjoy how much better your car runs.
Next time -ha ha- you'll be a lot faster!
Next time -ha ha- you'll be a lot faster!
KLXD
Top Post Dawg
Huh?
What do other mods have to do with the risk of something breaking loose and hanging up a valve?
I look at the possible consequences here, not returns. Unless you look as diminished risk as a return.
harley1955
Well-known member
UhOh, well i took a hard look at the port and the greatest buildup is at the junction like you thought. How flaky were your ports? Other than the lip being a little flaky this stuff is like baked on tar, not flaky at all. If I remove the "lip" and smooth it down I really can't see any of this stuff ever coming off. To me to clean this really good the head would have to be pulled. I could scrape the throat and vacuum it out, because it's going to fall down on top of the valve, but i don't see any way I'm going to get this stuff off that's down in there. Any one with advice about this, feel free to chime in.
As I stated, mods, I'm talking performance mods, are going to result in more power. More power can ONLY be derived if there is more air and fuel. In the case of the intake pathway we're talking air, more air, air that is likely being pushed harder and longer (by the turbo).
Physics supports this.
How much of a threat? I have no idea. My point was really not so much about modding as it was slapping the intake back on with only minor cleaning (of the entrance to the head ports), that it's unlikely that you're going to be creating any additional forces that would cause soot buildup (which has been firmly in place) to break loose.
All fine and good. I, however, operate based on probabilities, as just about anything is possible (given enough time).
Harley, that was my experience. I was quite concerned, but ran things through logic and decided that just flaking off the crumbs (yeah, not "flakes"- just kind of crumbly- of course, what would cause any problem would be any particles of significant size, and these would have to dislodge at exactly the perfect time to head toward the valve and valve seat and then stay in suspension in order to then get caught between the two as the valve closes) at the edge was sufficient. Yeah, something "could" happen, but I figured if I got all the larger crap that was sitting right there (only if I was a complete fumbler could I knock it the wrong way) I would just wipe it out. I used my thumb to press down and wipe the lip crud out. Was this a risk? Yes. What isn't a risk? Pulling the head would mean that I'd introduce quite a bit more actions, which introduces a variety of risks. Right now you're facing a singular risk.
It's your call. I had to make it for myself; it turned out fine, but I don't deny that I felt a bit of anxiety. I've got about 3k miles since I did the work. Perhaps it blows up tomorrow? Yeah, it's POSSIBLE; I don't think, however, that it's PROBABLE.
harley1955
Well-known member
About the same thing i did. I used a screwdriver to loosen it a bit, nothing fell in, and then wiped outward with my thumb. Nothing moved but what I had worked loose a little at the edge. I just don't see this stuff coming loose down the road. I would be more worried if I scraped this stuff off and vacuumed it out, and the vacuum didn't pick something up.