Intake cleaning every 50-70k....really????

[HammerDown]

Hi fellas, as some know I don't have a TDI yet but am very close to a purchase.
Reading about the "intake cleaning"

...I could very well be putting 50,000 miles per year on the engine. The intake maintenance responsibilities don't seem like it's any fun.
Why would they develope such a headach

 

[gdr703]

The intake clogging is only an issue if you drive "soft". (according to the VW TSB.)
Avoid doing that, and you wont have to worry.
My own car has 73,000 miles on it and the intake is just fine.

cheers.

 

[Vin]

Hi grd703-
Can you give an example of "soft" driving? Does this means you stay under 2,000 rpm? Just curious. Thanks.

 

[gdr703]

I think that VW mean pussyfooting it, (at any rpm).

cheers

 

[SUNRG]

there are TDIs that have 300+k on them, run perfectly, and have NEVER had the intake cleaned.

 

[bigEZ]

there are instructions on this site for installing a filter which greatly lessens (or eliminates) intake clogging. search for provent and you'll see what i'm talking about. from what i've read, you can do it for around $200 and some skinned knuckles on the install.

but yeah, from what i've heard/read, granny driving is the biggest cause. the time frame may vary, but it will be quicker if you always drive like you're on the way to a funeral.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

What the others say is true. I don't drive my car like I stole it but at 93K intake is fine. My '97 was owned by a guy who drove it VERY gently and the intake was clogged at 35K.

Two other things: the ultra low sulfur diesel being phased in next year will help prevent intake clogging. And there are numerous ways to either 'turn down' the EGR or eliminate the exhaust gas recirculation which will prevent intake clogging.

 

[BioDiesel]

"Two other things: the ultra low sulfur diesel being phased in next year will help prevent intake clogging"

Biodiesel and vegetable oil will eliminate clogging too, if used in a blend of more than 75% bd or vo.

And the ULSD may eliminate clogging next year, but there are going to be a lot of leaking fuel njection pumps.

 

[IndigoBlueWagon]

And the ULSD may eliminate clogging next year, but there are going to be a lot of leaking fuel njection pumps.

I'm not sure that's true. After all, Europe has had ULSD for several years and I don't think their pump failure rate is extraordinarily high. I've heard that ULSD will have a lot of lubricity additives to help prevent pump wear.

 

[Gothmolly]

there are instructions on this site for installing a filter which greatly lessens (or eliminates) intake clogging. search for provent and you'll see what i'm talking about. from what i've read, you can do it for around $200 and some skinned knuckles on the install.

Be prepared to fabricate and hack - the diameter of the ports from the CCV is not the same as the Provent, so you'll need adapters and or melt the hose.

Avoid the Provent, its a nontrivial install, and a pain in the ass - dealing with idiots at Home Depot, or trying to scrounge parts in your local have-almost-everything-you-need-but-not-quite hardware store.

 

[HammerDown]

People say to twist the diesel up in order to keep from cloging the intake. But what are the people doing with automatic tranys?
The 5 speed I test drove seemed to like 4k rpm and went their very easy...but I would guess the automatic counterpart will keep the r's down.

 

[Bob_Fout]

People say to twist the diesel up in order to keep from cloging the intake. But what are the people doing with automatic tranys?
The 5 speed I test drove seemed to like 4k rpm and went their very easy...but I would guess the automatic counterpart will keep the r's down.

IIRC if you press firmly on the accelerator it will downshift and run to redline before shifting??

 

[Curious Chris]

My dad who tends to like to drive around 2000 rpm just had his intake cleaned at 90K. My car I push to full boost and 4000 rpm at least once on every drive if possible. My car has 106,000 miles on it and the intake is lightly oiled. Of course I also have the famous and no longer available Old Navy CCV in my car which is a great product that fits where the OEM "filter" was and does a decent job reducing oil in the intake and more importantly oil on the compressor blades and the intercooler.

Yes driving like you stole it is the ticket to not having to clean the intake and yes the automatic will rev nic and high before shifting but you also take a hit on mileage with the automatic which is why I have a 5 speed manual. I also own the now gone 2 door Golf!

 

[NegativeEd]

So what I'm getting from this discussion is this... if you are in a competition to get the HIGHEST fuel economy and are driving everywhere at fifty mph, you will be installing a filter to keep your intake from clogging... if however, you purchased a TDI because you like that it still gets 40 mpg when you drive 80+ everywhere, you are fine....

No?

Negative Ed

 

[Guttboy]

Ed...thats the way I read it.

 

[Bob_Fout]

So what I'm getting from this discussion is this... if you are in a competition to get the HIGHEST fuel economy and are driving everywhere at fifty mph, you will be installing a filter to keep your intake from clogging... if however, you purchased a TDI because you like that it still gets 40 mpg when you drive 80+ everywhere, you are fine....

No?

Negative Ed

Not exactly.... Keep the cruising RPMs around 2000, but sometimes run 'er up. That won't ruin your mileage. The fuel used by sometimes running the RPMs up in the lower gears is offset by driving at less than 70 MPH rather than 80 MPH.

Sooo, if you want high MPG, sometimes run the tach up (like when leaving a light/sign) but keep the speed reasonable on the highway.

 

[Toronto_Vento]

I have a 98 Jetta with over 190 000 km on it. I have always been considering pulling the intake off, but every time I take a peek in there, I only see a bit of an oily residue on the side walls. In general, I cruise around at a fairly low rpm, and have never had an issue. This summer I have been driving a little harder, and honestly, my mileage has barely changed.

As stated, if you drive for mileage on your every day commute, that's fine...just open up the engine from time to time, and give it a good run. Your intake will be fine.

 

[bigEZ]

People say to twist the diesel up in order to keep from cloging the intake. But what are the people doing with automatic tranys?
The 5 speed I test drove seemed to like 4k rpm and went their very easy...but I would guess the automatic counterpart will keep the r's down.

the autos with the tiptronic are easy to run over 4000 rpm, b/c they don't shift unless you shift them. well, not quite true -- they won't redline, but they will run over 4000 (at least in the passat). from what i've read in other posts, there is a way to recode the b5 passat tranny with a sports (or old style) setting that will allow you to redline with the tiptronic. point is, yes, you can keep the revs up in an auto.

 

[gdr703]

... if however, . . . . you drive 80+ everywhere, you are fine.... No?

No,
I dont think its that simple.
I think youd be more liable to experience intake clogging, due to increased oil vapours, and the egr is is just as open.

 

[BioDiesel]

Indigo,

Hopefully we will have similar success as the European's have after their switch. But the problem isn't wear, it's gasket shrinkage due to swelling while running LSD.

 

[paramedick]

I have a 98 Jetta with over 190 000 km on it. I have always been considering pulling the intake off, but every time I take a peek in there, I only see a bit of an oily residue on the side walls.

John, my experience with the A3s is you will see most of the clogging in the body of the intake, not the neck. Conversely, I see more clogging in the necks and EGR valves of the A4.

The sum of this thread is drive it like you want to. Your intake will clog quicker if you drive it at low revs all the time. A TDI NEEDS to be revved above 4K once a week, and hold it there for 30 seconds or so. This will generally keep your intake pretty clean.

A good filter solution never hurts, and can only help.

 

[HammerDown]

A good filter solution never hurts, and can only help.

I concur...so why don't people fab something up?

 

[Toronto_Vento]

HammerDown...a number of people have fabricated something for the CCV. Technically the OldNavy filter is an idea which became more widespread. I have made my own filter (kind of like Provent) out of parts from a Home Depot mostly. Others have done their own filter ideas.

Bruce...thanks for the tip. I took another look at my intake again yesterday. Again, just a slight bit of film on the sides. I can wind the engine up to redline without much hesitation, so I am debating whether it's worth my time to pull the intake off. I wouldn't mind so much, but it's a lot of effort to go through if I really don't need it.

 

[ATucker]

My experience:

My wife drives our 2000 Golf, 5-speed extremely soft. At 106k miles, the car could not hold speed in cruise control. No CEL.

I was traveling for work so I told her to take it to the dealer. They said it needed an intake manifold cleaning: $850 + $162 for the EGR. I told my wife to drive it back home: $72 for the scan + $7.20 for shop supplies + tax.

I searched this site, replaced the MAF (after first unplugging to verify), and the power was restored ($80).

I decided to peek at the intake manifold. It was on its way to needing a cleaning so I did it myself. 6 hours + $20 in gaskets and screws from World Impex. Probably could have waited another 20k miles. Next time, in another 120k+ miles, it will probably only take me 4 hours.

There are no mods on the car and the EGR has not been recalibrated. Nor was I running any fuel additives.

So, from my one data point, the 50-70k between cleanings seems too frequent. YMMV

 

[cp]

$72 for the scan + $7.20 for shop supplies + tax.

Talk about a rip-off--what 'shop supplies' are used for a scan? Scam would have been a more accurate word than scan.

Wouldn't it be nice if we could all add a 10% surcharge to everything we do, whether applicable or not? Why are shop supplies any different than 'shop utilities' or 'shop real estate taxes'? It's all overhead, which, last time I checked, should have been covered by the difference in the shop rate and what the mechanic earns.

 

[bigEZ]

They said it needed an intake manifold cleaning: $850 + $162 for the EGR.

ok, i've posted this in other replies to other topix, but my dealer's cost for intake+egr cleaning: $279.99. they showed me the line item in the computer. i don't know if this is a new service or a service that just they offer, but it is definitely MUCH less than others have quoted for these cleanings. the first time i aksed about this, the guy told me that it's a process involving some liquid and that the intake manifold and egr come out spic 'n span.

 

[ATucker]

I was posting the invoice and estimate costs from memory. I dug up the invoice and I see I made a couple mistakes.

The cost of the scan was US$79.95, not $72.
Misc Shop supplies was $7.20
The cost of the "Decarboning Engine and Replacing EGR" was $851, EGR included. Not $850 + $162 as I originally posted. The person at the service counter told me the EGR cost $162 and this number stuck in my head as an additive instead of being included.

After my wife told me the news, I called the dealer. The service rep told me they have so many of these (clogged intake manifolds) that the dealer shop purchased some type of "special machine" that uses some liquid to clean the intake manifold. He did state that it has to be removed from the block to to the cleaning.

I did a quick search on this site from the hotel that night. The next day I called my wife and had her pick it up from the dealer.

 

[bigEZ]

so many people have posted in various places about the high cost of the intake manifold/egr cleaning that i was really surprised when my dealer's service dept. quoted me that price. they can't be the only ones offering this service for $280, $300-$500 less than what others have been quoted or have paid. i'm not saying it's cheap, but in dealer cost terms, it actually sounds reasonable. considering that the provent installation lists i've seen on the site have costs running around $200, the dealer option in this case doesn't look so bad. am i wrong?

 

[Danny Boy]

Hammer,

As you can see by the numerous posts, too many factors to predict your intake needs. Before I'd buy used, I'd remove the hose near the antishudder valve (right on top of the engine, springlike clamp, I'm not too sure about the PD models. Look at that area. It will quickly tell you the story of the intake with minimal effort.

If you're buying new, just go highway speeds. When it's really cold (like here in SD) get to speed gently. When the engine's warm, let it ride hard.

It will generate arguments widely, but the unmodified intake health is a matter of:

1. fuel quality in
2. oil quality
3. driving habits

Stick to an approved oil. Use good fuels - from a station that sells Diesel in volume. And drive responsibly - this isn't a BUICK.

I made a promise to myself - I wouldn't modify the intake unless it clogged quickly. I've put 95k miles on this beast, no problems yet. I'm not a tree hugger, but I didn't ever Engineer a vehicle. I decided maybe, just maybe I should first trust an educated person before I modified the intake. Not saying they're perfect, but they probably made the best choice available to them given all the options they had. Could you imagine what the health of people would be if they decided to fix their own teeth or perform their own surgeries...Just food for thought.

 

[mobe]

After 120K:

Photo credit to TDIClub member: Thom

EDIT: This is not my (mobe) intake, this is another member's that had it cleaned at a GTG. I wonder what the rest of his manifold looks like?