Injector pump not leaking... pouring!

[Dieselgeek]

To me at least it does look like your pump head seal is seeping diesel fuel.

I wrote the procedure for replacing the cast iron pump head's o-ring seal yesterday. Runonbeer and I plan on changing a leaky o-ring soon which will allow us to take pictures to add links to the procedure's text. I plan on having the install procedure up on my site in the next few weeks. Based on my very recent experience tinkering with a bench-mounted pump, the in-car procedure should take around one hour to perform.

One nice thing I found was that the cast iron pump head does not have to be removed fully to replace the o-ring seal! This eliminates many possibilities for the job going awry. Also, I think that the green o-rings as supplied by Bosch in the newest complete seal kits are not designed to be stretched over the pump head during install. The Viton o-ring seal I sell does not expand like the green Bosch o-ring so it fits better (perfectly) in the o-ring groove after it is stretched around the pump head.

 

[golfstream]

Thanks Jim and runonbeer,

I've purchased from you (Jim) the new viton o-ring and it will be installed the end of this month. TDI is parked for now, I have another car to drive. It would be great if your "how to" were up sometime in the next couple of weeks.

Thanks again,

Mel

 

[Fortuna Wolf]

I would be willing to pay a bit for another video, like an injector pump reseal how to

 

[runonbeer]

given the number of pictures we took, it might as well be a video.

I wish I would have worn a shirt that didn't have spaghetti sauce on it.

 

[Fortuna Wolf]

I demand an update and a writeup
Thanks!

 

[golfstream]

I demand an update and a writeup
Thanks!

I second that... pretty please??

Mel

 

[Dieselgeek]

Sorry, I have another major project in the finishing stages that has taken all of my time lately. I also figured out another way to make the pump head seal change even better and I'm working today to add the detail to the procedure and I am working on a more comprehensive Deluxe seal kit to make the re-seal even more doable. It won't be long, I promise.

 

[golfstream]

Sorry, I have another major project in the finishing stages that has taken all of my time lately. I also figured out another way to make the pump head seal change even better and I'm working today to add the detail to the procedure and I am working on a more comprehensive Deluxe seal kit to make the re-seal even more doable. It won't be long, I promise.

Thanks Jim,

Do you think you might have it up by early next week? Getting ready to have surgery performed on mine and having your info would really be helpful.

Thanks again,

Mel

 

[Dieselgeek]

I hope to have it posted this week...

 

[golfstream]

Thank you sir! We look forward to it.

Mel

 

[Dieselgeek]

http://www.dieselgeek.com/TDI_Injection_Pump_Head_Seal_Replacement.htm

These instructions will change as new information becomes available. Please don't print these instructions for future reference as any changes will not be there when you goto change your seal. I'm completely open to any revisions to make the procedure clearer or easier to understand.

 

[l_c]

Thank You

Thanks to Jim for the most excellent writeup!!!

 

[Fortuna Wolf]

Thanks! Reading that, I feel like I can do it myself! to another person's car!

I'm curious, how are replacing the two other seals done?

 

[golfstream]

Thanks Jim (and runonbeer), I'm sure this will be very helpful.

Mel

 

[Dieselgeek]

Top and middle seals

...I'm curious, how are replacing the two other seals done?

The top cover seal is as easy as unscrewing three Torx T30 screws and the one anti-tamper screw. Metalnerd.com sells the exact socket for this screw for $23. You then remove the seal, clean the surfaces well and then put the cover back on with a new seal.

My local Bosch diesel service tech told me that it doesn't matter is the top and middle seals are wet or dry for the install but I personally like them dry. Here is a picture of the drain plug for the middle section (quantity adjuster):

The middle seal is the same as the top seal more or less. Just like changing the top seal there is the one anti-tamper triangular-headed screw that must be removed along with three other T30 torx screws. Also, the quantity adjuster shaft that hangs down from the middle section has a ball at the end that has to sit in a little hole in the body of the pump so when you put it together with a new seal you hafta make sure the two parts line up but there's really nothing to that. Below is a picture of the seal. You can see the ball end of the quantity adjuster that has to fit into the round hole down inside the pump upon reassembly. The ring with the hole in it rotates on the plunger shaft it rides on. The best thing to do is not mess with anything down inside the pump to ensure the easiest time fitting the middle section back to the pump body.

The only other highly critical thing is that you have to mark the relative position of the middle section (quantity adjuster) and the body of the pump before you loosen the screws. I make a few matching marks with a sharp pick on the middle section and the body of the pump so that I can line them back up perfectly after the seal is replaced. Here are a coupla pics showing this:

It is also highly adviseable to check injection quantity with Vag-Com before you replace the middle seal (make sure the engine is warm with all electrical consumers switched off to check IQ). This will make it easy to verify that you put the middle section back where it was before the procedure. Be warned that you can experience either low engine power or a dangerous runaway engine if you fail to put the middle section back on where it was before the seal change! Had a customer yesterday put his back on without marking position which in his case resulted in low power. He had no idea that there was a danger of a runaway. The danger is really nonexistent if you take the time to mark position. I'm guessing that Bosch put the anti-tamper screw there to keep people from making this mistake.

 

[Fortuna Wolf]

Jim, thanks, that's what I thought the case was. I was under the impression that there were spring loaded bits in the middle section that could pop out though. I don't know why I thought that.
So now its easy to change all 3 seals with the IP still the car. That's going to save club members thousands of dollars. Thanks!

 

[turtleburger]

check with the dealer...

While troubleshooting a no start that ended up being a dead fuel cutoff, i noticed some fuel drips that appeared to be coming from the pump head o-ring. So, being a good little tdiclubber, i hit the forum first. good thing too, cos i can see from this thread that fixing it will be fun. anyway, while trying to find parts available "right now"(impossible) one guy at a vw shop suggested i talk to the dealer about the IP. he remembered hearing about an extended warranty on emissions parts, which would include the IP, and probably seals, since thay are polluting the air with fuel . A call to my local dealer revealed that the IP is covered under a 7 year, 70,000 mile federal emissions warranty. So if you happen to be under 7,70 and (gasp) dont want to do it yourself, you can get VW to pay for it.

 

[mcwig]

Thanks Jim for the great write ups on changing the seals. Unfortunately, my pump seems to be leaking in a different place. Mine looks a lot like the one in this thread: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=121352

Does anyone know if its possible to replace the input shaft seal that is apparently the cause of this kind of leak without having to send the pump in to a Bosch service shop?

 

[Dieselgeek]

I'm gonna experiment with my test pump this week and report back.

 

[mcwig]

Great! Looking forward to what you find.

Chris

 

[wrench hound]

So now "its easy to change all 3 seals with the IP still the car."

I tried using the procedure to replace the distributor body o-ring on my 1991 Jetta Eco. (I should have know better, being a veteran mechanic and all, lol) Here is my experience:

Obtained complete seal overhaul kit for the Bosch pump. ($13. including tax at "Purrformance Diesel" located one mi. up the road, why I didn't just hand them this reseal job is a mystery, they usually replace seals for a song while I wait, usually $25. for a simple matter like a leaking throttle shaft)

Followed o-ring replacement procedure to the letter, using the soft paper clip to carefully place the ring in the groove extended just past the main pump body. I used four screws to evenly compress the body back into the cavity, carefully observing the o-ring. All seemed well until I detected a slight "snap" while putting the final turns on the screws. I assumed a spring was reseating or maybe the plunger keyway had just indexed. I put a spanner on the alternator to see if the engine was free to rotate, moving it slightly....half a rotation. Things at this point seem fine.

Using an air regulator and a lab stopper, I apply a few ounces of air to the fuel tank to prime the pump....also cracked the lines at the injectors.

After energizing the starter, I was perplexed that not a drop of fuel was being pumped to the injectors! Something was definately wrong here.

Fuel had quit leaking out the distributor body o-ring...but was now streaming out the front shaft seal! To verify this, I removed the timing belt cover.....shock! the damned belt was loose...er..no..it was broken!

The pump had shattered internally, locking the pulley, causing the belt to break.....and the pistons to impact the valves. The keyway on the pump pulley had sheared, making it a nightmare to extract the gear.

When I finally got the pump off, I tore it down.....it was sobering to witness how thorough the distruction was.....this engine is junk!

 

[l_c]

wrench hound, do you have any idea why that pump shattered?
Sorry to hear the news.

 

[Dieselgeek]

The failure of the Ecodiesel pump is unfortunate but the procedure was written for a TDI pump.

 

[wrench hound]

"procedure was written for a TDI pump."

The pump was a VE pump of nearly identical pump/plunger end configeration. I'm merely sharing my experience to show a worst case scenario. I would add a precautionary removal of the timing belt and a rotational check of the pump to the procedure (mandatory), also adding that if you witness or detect ANY snaps or clicks during the final draw down of the head bolts, to STOP and remove the pump for teardown.

Otherwise, I can say, that your procedure WAS great for getting that o-ring in place and stopping THAT particular LEAK, logic just dictates if a pump has enough hours on it for the large o-ring to have hardened, chances are high that the shaft seal has hardened also. (along with all the other seals) Thus, removal of the pump would be in order anyhow.

 

[wrench hound]

Additionally, this was a winter time "beater" I was fixing up for the family, my aquisition was $300. ...so I'm not feeling the "pain" of someone who has upwards of several thousand $ invested in their ride. Be careful out there!

 

[runonbeer]

I've sucessfully completed this procedure on three TDI pumps (not counting the one in the write-up) since it was posted.

 

[golfstream]

Runonbeer,

Do you or Jim have any pics to go with your procedure?

Thanks,

Mel

 

[runonbeer]

quite a few. note the spattering of hyperlinks in write up. those are all pictures.

 

[golfstream]

quite a few. note the spattering of hyperlinks in write up. those are all pictures.

Duh!... well, color me embarrassed.

Thanks Jim... great procedure write-up.

Mel

 

[l_c]

wrench hound, so do you think it's the case that, as the pump body
was being tightened back into the cavity, the sound heard was probably
the shaft seal fracturing? I don't mean to restate something obvious
but for a newbie like me it was not obvious at first read. Thanks; Larry.