Injector Pump Disaster

[Savannah Steve]

Yesterday morning my daughter's 2001 TDI Beetle wouldn't start. I drove over to jump start the car and after starting checked voltage across the battery terminals finding only 11.4 VDC. Further investigation found fuel dripping from the injector pump onto the alternator so we shut down and called a tow truck to move the car to a repair facility. They determined fuel had destroyed the alternator and had drained into the timing belt cover area soaking the timing belt with diesel fuel. The quote for repairs was an astounding $3500 US with $1700 of that for a new injector pump. Went online and found Rothenbacher Engineering in Matthews, NC www.emiata.com or www.volkswaparts.com who offer rebuilt injector pumps for this car at $730 which includes a refundable $300 core charge. The repair shop is working with me, and by finding my own parts I've reduced the repairs to around $2000. The local VW dealer says they've seen a rash of issues like this recently, and say the low sulphur diesel fuel we're buying at the pump is responsible for part of this. Any comments about this situation are welcome! I'm really about ready to divest my TDI holdings which include the 2001 Beetle and a 2006 Jetta.

 

[thebigarniedog]

Yesterday morning my daughter's 2001 TDI Beetle wouldn't start. I drove over to jump start the car and after starting checked voltage across the battery terminals finding only 11.4 VDC. Further investigation found fuel dripping from the injector pump onto the alternator so we shut down and called a tow truck to move the car to a repair facility. They determined fuel had destroyed the alternator and had drained into the timing belt cover area soaking the timing belt with diesel fuel. The quote for repairs was an astounding $3500 US with $1700 of that for a new injector pump. Went online and found Rothenbacher Engineering in Matthews, NC www.emiata.com or www.volkswaparts.com who offer rebuilt injector pumps for this car at $730 which includes a refundable $300 core charge. The repair shop is working with me, and by finding my own parts I've reduced the repairs to around $2000. The local VW dealer says they've seen a rash of issues like this recently, and say the low sulphur diesel fuel we're buying at the pump is responsible for part of this. Any comments about this situation are welcome! I'm really about ready to divest my TDI holdings which include the 2001 Beetle and a 2006 Jetta.

STOP. STOP. STOP...... Do not buy an injector pump from Prothe. It may be cheaper, but there have been too many horror stories. Take your car to a guru and not a "shop".

 

[thebigarniedog]

PS The dealer is an idiot as well . Find a guru in your area.

 

[paramedick]

Your injection pump can be rebuilt for that amount by a Bosch certified facility. It will be rebuilt to the same standards as a new IP. IP rebuild and R&R of the IP should be ~$1K.

A leak on that end of the IP is not something that is easily rebuildable with a kit from dieselgeek. Unless it is the top seal. Yours sounds like a pump shaft seal.

Pete Rothenberger sells IP that he has rebuilt by someone that is not certified to work on these IPs. They don't have the proper test equipment to set all the components correctly after rebuild. Three shops in the US have made the investment to rebuild the TDI IPs. Oregon, Wisconsin, and New York are your choices.

 

[rackaracka]

Went online and found Rothenbacher Engineering in Matthews, NC www.emiata.com or www.volkswaparts.com who offer rebuilt injector pumps for this car at $730 which includes a refundable $300 core charge.

STOP NOW! Rothenbacher Engineering sells rebuilt pumps with cloned chinese components that will fail. My used 98 beetle had a Rothenbacher pump that failed in about 1000 miles. Thank goodness mine failed on a quiet back road where I coasted to a safe spot and called a towtruck. Your daughter may not be as lucky as I was.

When it fails, you'll then need to get it rebuilt and the chinese core will be worthless (like mine was). Take your good quality original pump and send it in a flat rate shipping box from the USPS to DFIS in Portland, OR. (888) 285-1213

I'd also recommend getting your car to a "Trusted Mechanic" for this service. They can properly replace your timing belt and related components. I doubt that some diesel fuel has destroyed your alternator, but it is plausable that the timing belt has been comprimised. Since the TB drives the IP and it has to come off (partially) in order to change the IP, its probably a good idea to do a complete timing belt now (unless it was just done). This means the water pump, tensioner, rollers (everything in the timing belts path) and the related hardware (single use bolts).

Good Luck!

 

[turbocharged798]

Yesterday morning my daughter's 2001 TDI Beetle wouldn't start. I drove over to jump start the car and after starting checked voltage across the battery terminals finding only 11.4 VDC. Further investigation found fuel dripping from the injector pump onto the alternator so we shut down and called a tow truck to move the car to a repair facility. They determined fuel had destroyed the alternator and had drained into the timing belt cover area soaking the timing belt with diesel fuel. The quote for repairs was an astounding $3500 US with $1700 of that for a new injector pump. Went online and found Rothenbacher Engineering in Matthews, NC www.emiata.com or www.volkswaparts.com who offer rebuilt injector pumps for this car at $730 which includes a refundable $300 core charge. The repair shop is working with me, and by finding my own parts I've reduced the repairs to around $2000. The local VW dealer says they've seen a rash of issues like this recently, and say the low sulphur diesel fuel we're buying at the pump is responsible for part of this. Any comments about this situation are welcome! I'm really about ready to divest my TDI holdings which include the 2001 Beetle and a 2006 Jetta.

STOP STOP STOP STOP!!!!!!!!!!

Find a tdi guru in your area and have the car towed there. The money you will save will pay for the towing cost several times over.

Do NOT buy ANY critical engine parts from volkswaparts.com or any of his other sites. EVER!

Get the pump rebuilt by DIFS and have a guru install a NEW 100K name brand timing belt system and a new reman alternator.

If you continue on this path, you will quickly end up with a endless money pit and/or a completely trashed TDI.

 

[ninedee_golf_tdi]

http://www.vwdiesel.net/forum/index.php?topic=14291.0

 

[Powder Hound]

It really depends on what is leaking on the injection pump. If the top seals and/or pump head seals are leaking, then that can be done by anyone that has a modicum of manual dexterity and the intelligence to be clean and careful.

The main shaft seal is a different animal. Since replacing that one would require removal of the drive pulley and ensuring proper timing on reassembly, you'd better be really good with a micrometer depth gauge to do it. It isn't black magic. But it isn't the cakewalk the top seals are, either.

Other than that, the pump's internals are probably not messing up - it is just a matter of seals.

If the timing belt has been soaked, then it would be best to replace it. These timing belts are pretty robust, but after seeing new hoses fail in a very short time after diesel started leaking on them, I wouldn't chance it. It is just not the place to take a chance as the downside of failure is too large.

The alternator may or may not be dead. You'd need to get the usual testing done on it.

But, if you're done playing with the NB TDI, I'll give you a dollar for it. LMK.

 

[Franko6]

I just had a call last night. The car would start with difficulty and wouldn't idle. After a few minutes of diagnosis over the phone, the guy says, "I had the pump rebuilt". I said, "Where?" and he said,"In North Carolina."

Prothe/ Miata strikes again...

Very poor quality parts. He might have some good stuff, but I kinda doubt it. You have to slog through the LCC (Low Cost Chinese).

 

[fixumrich]

Freeze frame Savannah Steve . Deisel Fuel injection is five mile's from my shop . We are super tight with those guys . I will p.m you my # give me a call anytime . We'll get you on the right track . Hey Frank Merry Christmas hope to see you out West next Labor Day . R

 

[Dimitri16V]

buying a injection pump rebuilt with questionable parts from China makes no sense. Getting a Chinese made fan , I can understand

 

[turbocharged798]

buying a injection pump rebuilt with questionable parts from China makes no sense. Getting a Chinese made fan , I can understand

Exactly. That's why I said critical engine parts in my previous post. A chinese A4 grill insert or hubcap would probably be fine, but NOT a injection pump or worse, a chinese timing belt kit.

 

[Savannah Steve]

Everyone, thank you for your advice. Message received loud and clear! Will cease and desist immediately from present course of action and will have existing IP overhauled by a certified facility.

 

[runonbeer]

Just buy me a plane ticket. I'll come put new seals in your pump for $300 including parts. for another ~$670 I'll put a new belt on it (DG TBD kit included). Plane ticket must be round trip

 

[Savannah Steve]

Robby, thanks for the offer. I certainly wish I could find somebody like you in the Savannah, Georgia area!

 

[mohawk69]

"Just buy me a plane ticket. I'll come put new seals in your pump for $300 including parts. for another ~$670 I'll put a new belt on it (DG TBD kit included). Plane ticket must be round trip"

SS, if that's a serious offer, you might consider taking him up on the offer. For a thousand bucks plus round trip tickets, you still beat your current estimate significantly. I live nearby and have used Krout in the past. His shop was in Jax but he's moved farther south. I have a trailer that would probably work so you could tow it down to him.

__________________

 

[runonbeer]

serious offer.

 

[Savannah Steve]

Is there any reason shipping the IP to runonbeer for seal replacement wouldn't be a good idea? It's already removed from the car so I just need to package and ship it. $300 including parts sounds good!

 

[runonbeer]

As I said in my PM reply, since the pump R&R labor is already on the table you're better off sending it to DFIS for a full blown rebuild. The only real value in my service is avoiding the expense of pump R&R which, as I said, would happen 2x on my end and 1x on your end.

 

[mrGutWrench]

serious offer.

__. Steve, think hard on this. Not only do you get the *immediate* problem fixed, Robbie will give your car a good going over. This is very valuable and could mean a lot since you're not near a "guru" for TDI-specific work. I'd jump on this if I were you.

 

[Dorado]

Same over here!

Hi All...! It's being a while since I've posted...

Same over here: 2002 NB TDI, IP lost its prime Oct 09 due to leaking fuel (left puddle), and needed replacement of alternator as well as one cooland hose Dec 09.

Other than the non-start on Oct 09, and the alternator going bad Dec 09, the engine runs great!

Talked to DieselGeek and to TDIRally over the phone for their advise, thanks!!!

I'm currently looking for a local shop or guru willing to take out IP to be sent to a Bosch Cert Shop that works on TDI pumps, or to be replaced by a rebuild (if economical and fast).

An earlier reply in this thread mentioned a shop in New York - is there one?

Otherwise we're looking at at least couple of weeks downtime shipping the IP to the West Coast...

 

[Scubanero]

Blaming the leak on ULSD sounds like BS to me.

 

[rackaracka]

I'd send your pump to DFIS in Portland for a full rebuild. You know you'll have something you can count on for the years to come. Then, I'd buy a plane ticket for RunOnBeer and a full timing belt kit from DieselGeek. Perhaps RunOnBeer can also look at your 06. You'll learn something in the process, save yourself time, money and aggrevation. And you know you won't be taken advantage of. I am very glad to hear that you've taken the advice of the club and saved your vehicle.