injection pumps rebuilding

[KrashDH]

5 hours to calibrate ......... were they cablibrating the IP or their machine (pun intended). Really! Hmm, new housing. Did they say why?

The first 11mm pump I disassembled had a bunch of schrapnel sent through it. The entire inside of the housing was chewed up and pitted/gouged where the FOD got stuck between the walls and spinning pump internals. It would have needed a new housing.

 

[Genesis]

Genesis, I just noticed you are in Sevier County, TN. Hmm. We go there about every Sunday afternoon for a drive thru and then over to Cade's Cove to see the animals. We saw 16 bear there yesterday. Oddly, we never saw any Deer.

Yeah, a Bosch Injection Pump is easily disassembled and reassembled. This is not rocket science in my opinion. I bet the guys at City Diesel in Knoxville does rebuilds cheaper than what we're seeing here. Thoughts?

Quite possibly -- I've not talked with them as haven't had a reason to.

The last few years have resulted in a lot of insane garbage around here (and everywhere else) when it comes to hiring things out. It hasn't impacted me much since I haven't let anyone wrench on any of my vehicles in well over a decade, including some fairly serious stuff (e.g. rear-end rebuild) but this sort of report just cements it for me even further.

If you're around here drop me a note; there's a very nice brewpub in Townsend (The Abbey) and while its a bit of a drive from where I am its not that far.... would be nice to press flesh and put a face to words.

 

[STDOUBT]

Total cost; $1,663.00 back to my door.

The upside is, you saved 400-1200 USD vs. a new one. And yours is now good as new.

 

[Genesis]

There is that -- the quality of their work is, in my experience, outstanding.

 

[KrashDH]

Does DFIS provide any detailed documentation or images to customers what they actually found was wrong when they rebuild these pumps?

 

[jimbote]

5 hours to calibrate ......... were they cablibrating the IP or their machine (pun intended). Really! Hmm, new housing. Did they say why?

Cam plate roller pins can wear into the housing creating a groove that limits timing.

 

[AndyBees]

Cam plate roller pins can wear into the housing creating a groove that limits timing.

So, once a rebuilder sees the wear in the housing, it is replaced. Why does it take 5 hours to calibrate the Injection Pump?

 

[P2B]

Why does it take 5 hours to calibrate the Injection Pump?

Assembly, test and calibrate was the most expensive thing on the invoice, 5 hours

 

[oilhammer]

Just a note on DFIS:

The guy that did pretty much all their VAG Bosch VE pumps, both the old ones and the electronic, passed away a couple years ago. I got the impression it was not sudden, like he may have been dealing with cancer for a bit. But he did his best to make sure his wealth of knowledge did not vanish with him, and tried to make sure some of the other folks there knew what was what.

It's sad, but it is a fact that a lot of old-school know-how in the trades is just going away. I've since had two pumps rebuilt by them, and other than taking a bit longer, the quality was top-notch as always, and I had no issues. I do think they are backed up with work, as many of us are.

As far as cost, EVERYTHING has seemingly gone up. And in the last couple years or so, substantially. It used to be ALH pumps were around $1100 to have them go through it, and one from Volkswagen was about $1500. So I quite often had the discussion with customers that for that $400 cost differential, I could get your car done the next day (in most cases), assuming Volkswagen had one in the Wisconsin warehouse (and they usually did).

Then, Bosch moved their facilities for VE pumps to Czech Republic from Germany, and the price went up... first to around $1800, then ultimately it went bananas... the current Volkswagen list price for a manual ALH pump (part number 038-130-107-KX) is a staggering $3702.73. Oddly, the automatic version (JX suffix) is only $1429.96, but those may already be on the NLA list.

Our local Bosch place, who wouldn't touch these pumps because they didn't have the proper test bench, ended up getting rid of their Bosch authorization status because Bosch prices on parts on the stuff they WOULD service had gotten so crazy that nobody would pay them to do anything anymore.

I suspect a variety of these factors is why DFIS is charging as much as they are.

I'm almost daily confronted with what I feel are jaw-dropping parts prices, all kinds of things, on all kinds of cars. Stuff that was reliably $200-300 a couple years ago, and had been in that range for quite a while, is now $500+ or more. Price an OEM ALH or PD valve cover. Tires that were $120 each are now $200. It's been crazy.

Then add in an obvious labor shortage... nobody wants to work, and the trades are largely at their breaking point... labor costs go up, because there are fewer and fewer people available to do the same things that need to be done. We've pretty much had an open spot here for years for a qualified tech... can't fill it. I can barely take a day off let alone a vacation, and people have lately gotten really downright pissy about having to wait for things, and the dealers are full of crooks and hacks.

 

[jimbote]

So, once a rebuilder sees the wear in the housing, it is replaced. Why does it take 5 hours to calibrate the Injection Pump?

Who knows. Probably fudged it some..

 

[AndyBees]

Well, I am glad I have a stash of known good used VEs for my ALH engines!
I do have one that I purchased to use as a guinea pig! I got it for cheap with free shipping.
I have several old school VE pumps for the 1.6 engines.

JimBote, remember those I found last August for $250 brand new and never bought one?

 

[dieseldonato]

Just a note on DFIS:

The guy that did pretty much all their VAG Bosch VE pumps, both the old ones and the electronic, passed away a couple years ago. I got the impression it was not sudden, like he may have been dealing with cancer for a bit. But he did his best to make sure his wealth of knowledge did not vanish with him, and tried to make sure some of the other folks there knew what was what.

It's sad, but it is a fact that a lot of old-school know-how in the trades is just going away. I've since had two pumps rebuilt by them, and other than taking a bit longer, the quality was top-notch as always, and I had no issues. I do think they are backed up with work, as many of us are.

As far as cost, EVERYTHING has seemingly gone up. And in the last couple years or so, substantially. It used to be ALH pumps were around $1100 to have them go through it, and one from Volkswagen was about $1500. So I quite often had the discussion with customers that for that $400 cost differential, I could get your car done the next day (in most cases), assuming Volkswagen had one in the Wisconsin warehouse (and they usually did).

Then, Bosch moved their facilities for VE pumps to Czech Republic from Germany, and the price went up... first to around $1800, then ultimately it went bananas... the current Volkswagen list price for a manual ALH pump (part number 038-130-107-KX) is a staggering $3702.73. Oddly, the automatic version (JX suffix) is only $1429.96, but those may already be on the NLA list.

Our local Bosch place, who wouldn't touch these pumps because they didn't have the proper test bench, ended up getting rid of their Bosch authorization status because Bosch prices on parts on the stuff they WOULD service had gotten so crazy that nobody would pay them to do anything anymore.

I suspect a variety of these factors is why DFIS is charging as much as they are.

I'm almost daily confronted with what I feel are jaw-dropping parts prices, all kinds of things, on all kinds of cars. Stuff that was reliably $200-300 a couple years ago, and had been in that range for quite a while, is now $500+ or more. Price an OEM ALH or PD valve cover. Tires that were $120 each are now $200. It's been crazy.

Then add in an obvious labor shortage... nobody wants to work, and the trades are largely at their breaking point... labor costs go up, because there are fewer and fewer people available to do the same things that need to be done. We've pretty much had an open spot here for years for a qualified tech... can't fill it. I can barely take a day off let alone a vacation, and people have lately gotten really downright pissy about having to wait for things, and the dealers are full of crooks and hacks.

I'd like to think some of the price hikes are just price gouging, I have antidotal evidence, but nothing concrete. Everything went through the roof during covid and just hasn't settled down to "normal" pricing, even taking into account usual price increases each year. There are still certain vendors we use at work claiming parts/supply shortages. But will gladly charge a fee for "rush/priority" orders.
We see the personnel shortage as well, and not just limited to skilled labor. The company had been considering using an outside business for cleaning recently. They will start a toilet scrubber out at $26 hr + benefits, no experience needed. Can't fill positions. Let alone any mechanic, electrician, carpenter or paint shop jobs that all start at $37 hr + benefits. It's a sad state of affairs these days.

 

[wonneber]

(some deleted)
They will start a toilet scrubber out at $26 hr + benefits, no experience needed. Can't fill positions. Let alone any mechanic, electrician, carpenter or paint shop jobs that all start at $37 hr + benefits. It's a sad state of affairs these days.

I wouldn't think about cleaning toilets for that salary!
Its a sh!tty job.

Then again I keep saying the only think cheap any more is pay checks.

 

[AndyBees]

I wouldn't think about cleaning toilets for that salary!
Its a sh!tty job.

Then again I keep saying the only think cheap any more is pay checks.

My first summer job after turning 16, was working at a rather large "Mom & Pop" supermarket at minimum wage ($1/hr). I went to work on June 1, 1967 (first of the month rush) on a Thursday. I worked 31 hours in three days. However, my first assignment was to unload 50 lb sacks of potatoes (both paper bag and gunny sack). As part of that assignment, any bag that had a "wet" spot meant it had a rotten potato somewhere inside. Yep! I had to dump the bag of potatoes and find that rotten potato. Then, every potato that was wet had to be washed. Let me tell you, sh!t smells good compared to a rotten potato, especially when it has been in a sack that's been inside a hot semi-truck trailer for days on end.

I worked at the supermarket my junior and senior years in HS on into college. In fact, I was working there when my wife and I got married. She graduated college before me (one of those in and out in three years). But, we made it (and paid off our student loans, on time).

Today, there ain't no way in hell a similar supermarket could get anyone to do that work for $20 an hour in my neck of the woods.

 

[dieseldonato]

I wouldn't think about cleaning toilets for that salary!
Its a sh!tty job.

Then again I keep saying the only think cheap any more is pay checks.

It's actually a really easy job and well paying for the lack of skill needed to do it. Mop the floors, clean the toilets and urinals, and keep the towel and toilet paper dispensers full. Like 3 hours worth of work and 8 hours to do it. No real poop involved, clogged/ not working stuff is the plumbers problem.

 

[wonneber]

My first summer job after turning 16, was working at a rather large "Mom & Pop" supermarket at minimum wage ($1/hr). I went to work on June 1, 1967 (first of the month rush) on a Thursday. I worked 31 hours in three days. However, my first assignment was to unload 50 lb sacks of potatoes (both paper bag and gunny sack). As part of that assignment, any bag that had a "wet" spot meant it had a rotten potato somewhere inside. Yep! I had to dump the bag of potatoes and find that rotten potato. Then, every potato that was wet had to be washed. Let me tell you, sh!t smells good compared to a rotten potato, especially when it has been in a sack that's been inside a hot semi-truck trailer for days on end.

I worked at the supermarket my junior and senior years in HS on into college. In fact, I was working there when my wife and I got married. She graduated college before me (one of those in and out in three years). But, we made it (and paid off our student loans, on time).

Today, there ain't no way in hell a similar supermarket could get anyone to do that work for $20 an hour in my neck of the woods.

Minimum Wage ($1/hr)
WOW. I don't remember how long ago that was.
You may be close to my age.
Yes I'm an old geezer.

 

[dirtride]

Just a note on DFIS:

The guy that did pretty much all their VAG Bosch VE pumps, both the old ones and the electronic, passed away a couple years ago. I got the impression it was not sudden, like he may have been dealing with cancer for a bit. But he did his best to make sure his wealth of knowledge did not vanish with him, and tried to make sure some of the other folks there knew what was what.

It's sad, but it is a fact that a lot of old-school know-how in the trades is just going away. I've since had two pumps rebuilt by them, and other than taking a bit longer, the quality was top-notch as always, and I had no issues. I do think they are backed up with work, as many of us are.

As far as cost, EVERYTHING has seemingly gone up. And in the last couple years or so, substantially. It used to be ALH pumps were around $1100 to have them go through it, and one from Volkswagen was about $1500. So I quite often had the discussion with customers that for that $400 cost differential, I could get your car done the next day (in most cases), assuming Volkswagen had one in the Wisconsin warehouse (and they usually did).

Then, Bosch moved their facilities for VE pumps to Czech Republic from Germany, and the price went up... first to around $1800, then ultimately it went bananas... the current Volkswagen list price for a manual ALH pump (part number 038-130-107-KX) is a staggering $3702.73. Oddly, the automatic version (JX suffix) is only $1429.96, but those may already be on the NLA list.

Our local Bosch place, who wouldn't touch these pumps because they didn't have the proper test bench, ended up getting rid of their Bosch authorization status because Bosch prices on parts on the stuff they WOULD service had gotten so crazy that nobody would pay them to do anything anymore.

I suspect a variety of these factors is why DFIS is charging as much as they are.

I'm almost daily confronted with what I feel are jaw-dropping parts prices, all kinds of things, on all kinds of cars. Stuff that was reliably $200-300 a couple years ago, and had been in that range for quite a while, is now $500+ or more. Price an OEM ALH or PD valve cover. Tires that were $120 each are now $200. It's been crazy.

Then add in an obvious labor shortage... nobody wants to work, and the trades are largely at their breaking point... labor costs go up, because there are fewer and fewer people available to do the same things that need to be done. We've pretty much had an open spot here for years for a qualified tech... can't fill it. I can barely take a day off let alone a vacation, and people have lately gotten really downright pissy about having to wait for things, and the dealers are full of crooks and hacks.

I REALLY like what is being said here! And are some of the main reasons why I used DFIS.

To me paying what I paid to have my pump rebuilt and tested proper is much better than having another car payment, insurance, registration and the fees that go along with a newer vehicle. Plus I love driving and working on my Golf, more now then when it was new.

 

[dirtride]

Cam plate roller pins can wear into the housing creating a groove that limits timing.

Does DFIS provide any detailed documentation or images to customers what they actually found was wrong when they rebuild these pumps?

I did request and DFIS did send me back all of the old parts they replaced. My old German made housing did have wear and groves as described. So did the main driveshaft and other parts. The new main housing with Bosch markings is "Made in India," but I guess I am lucky to get a new Bosch housing at all?

 

[dieseldonato]

These pumps and all their variations were prolific over the years. Other then prices being nutty for whole units and parts, I suspect(hope) we'll be able to get them serviced for some time yet.

 

[shoebear]

I have sent pumps to DFIS a couple of times and been unhappy with the result. I won't use them again.

 

[P2B]

I have sent pumps to DFIS a couple of times and been unhappy with the result. I won't use them again.

Why were you unhappy?

 

[shoebear]

Why were you unhappy?

The problem was in the advance solenoid/injector. It was faulty in a used AHU pump I bought from what is now Cascade German that had been rebuilt by them. I sent it back, and they rebuilt the pump again but didn't fix the problem. When I called them about it, they said that isn't part of their rebuild and refused to help any more.

 

[dirtride]

Just finished this install. Everything went well and as expected, with only two days driving so far - just over 100 miles.