Increased Cranking Time When Starting

PilotPat24

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 9, 2008
Location
Long Island
TDI
2002 Golf
Hey Guys,

I have a 2014 JSW 6 Speed and recently the car cranks for about 4-5 seconds before starting for the first start in the morning. Any other start during the day after that starts normal. Any ideas on what I should be checking?

Thanks,

Pat
 

S1C EM

Well-known member
Joined
May 7, 2019
Location
Athens, GA
TDI
Jetta Sportwagen
Hey Guys,
I have a 2014 JSW 6 Speed and recently the car cranks for about 4-5 seconds before starting for the first start in the morning. Any other start during the day after that starts normal. Any ideas on what I should be checking?
Thanks,
Pat

What is a normal interval? I noticed that my push button start is really a hold button for 2-3 second start. Looked in the manual and it just says “depress briefly.” That could mean anything. Is a 3 second push and hold longer than normal? I just figured it was a difference with diesel.
 

Matt927

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 29, 2013
Location
Northeast
TDI
several
Noticed this as well. 2013 Golf TDI with fix.

First start of the day only.

Concerning the starter button, the logic with the older cars is you have to push and hold the button until the vehicle starts. I get in, push the button once, put my seat belt on and then push and hold until it starts.

Mk7 vehicles require one quick push of the button.
 

S1C EM

Well-known member
Joined
May 7, 2019
Location
Athens, GA
TDI
Jetta Sportwagen
Noticed this as well. 2013 Golf TDI with fix.

First start of the day only.

Concerning the starter button, the logic with the older cars is you have to push and hold the button until the vehicle starts. I get in, push the button once, put my seat belt on and then push and hold until it starts.

Mk7 vehicles require one quick push of the button.
So pushing and holding is normal on my model. Good deal.
 

slacker83

Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2019
Location
Peoria IL
TDI
2012 Jetta Sportwagen
Mine does the exact same thing, but seems to be worse when the weather is colder. I was wondering if the fuel is bleeding back into the tank over night somehow.
 

ShelbyRazorback

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 31, 2018
Location
WI
TDI
2012 Golf TDI 6MT
Mine seems to have started doing this as well. 2012 Golf 6MT. It doesn't seem to ALWAYS do this but sometimes does. I think it may have done it after work a couple times as well. If the engine is warm I haven't noticed it. I'll try the "pump twice".
 

Ktmracer358

Active member
Joined
May 7, 2019
Location
Kentucky
TDI
2012 golf, 2013 jetta
It happens to me in my 2012 golf 6mt as well. I tried the pump twice thing today after work and I fired right up. Might try to pretend pump twice just to see if it's just key on time.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
 

nucklehead

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 30, 2014
Location
Ephrata Washington
TDI
2013 Golf TDI W/DSG
Hmm. My 2013 Golf starts right up with a couple of spins of the crank, just like my 2013 Jetta TDI did. The Golf is a post-fix TDI. I did have some warranty work done, the dealer had to replace the EGR plumbing, the DPF filter, and the cat converter. Also replaced at that time was the right drive axle and some other related parts due to a bent axle. How common is that? All at no cost to me, I just had to do was put up with driving their billboard car for 3 weeks.

I filled up today, got my best tank MPG so far, 39mpg, so that is looking better. Previous tanks were all right at 35-36mpg. The weather is much warmer now, 85* today. I don't drive the Golf to/from the golf course these days, it's Miata weather! So the Golf gets the longer trips only, which is no doubt better for the economy numbers. The Miata gets 27mpg whether I drive it nice or drive it hard. Unlike the Golf, the Miata gets up to temp within 3-5 miles, at least the coolant does, not sure about the oil, but it gets changed every spring.
 

ShelbyRazorback

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 31, 2018
Location
WI
TDI
2012 Golf TDI 6MT
I tried the "pump twice" a few times. Mine still spins a few times before starting. It did it after work today. Doesn't do it all the time though. No apparent rhyme or reason to this that I can tell.
 

prsa01

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2000
Location
mpls,mn usa
TDI
14 jsw 6m, 96 B4v, miss my a4 :(
My 14 JSW 6m just started doing this last week. Mine had unknown age/miles fuel filter so changed that but it did not resolve the issue.

As with some others it is not all, but some, first starts of day. I am trying to keep track of whether the previous run was very short. Just moving the car or similar. I'll try the pedal trick and report back.

If anyone comes up with anything, please let us know.
 

gorms400

Veteran Member
Joined
Jan 2, 2007
Location
Southeast MA
TDI
01 Jetta, 11 Sportwagen
I hate comparing apples to Dodges, but my 07 5.9 Cummins does this whenever I dont run power service. Typically with those it is injector wear, but I have been dodging the injector replacement bullet for 4 years and 60k now, 225k miles total.

Our 2011 jsw seemed to fire off differently every time we started it. Have been running power service since we bought it (only 1500 miles) but it has improved. Not as many, if any, long crank times.

I am a firm believer in additives with common rail diesels, the injectors are working 3-4 times as hard IMHO.
 
Last edited:

prsa01

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2000
Location
mpls,mn usa
TDI
14 jsw 6m, 96 B4v, miss my a4 :(
The doc he referenced didn't look like a TSB. It would be nice if it was.

If it isn't too much work to get at that valve it would be interesting to just clean/flush the valve to see if it fixes the issue even if only temporarily.

Sometimes oilhammer can find these TSBs if it has risen to that level.

Long thread on similar (same?) issue on mk7. Kerma reports that this MAY in some cases be an air purge of the hpfp. Oops, later in the thread he decides the issue is more likely to be vvt related.

https://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=481340
 
Last edited:

ksing44

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2010
Location
Southeast PA
TDI
2010 Golf TDI
Wow, amazing video and super mechanic!

But also funny for me. I think my worst crank times are like when the car is fixed in the video. My car typically starts immediately, except in the morning it takes about as long as the fixed version in the video. Maybe I'm just too picky.

It really is interesting to know that a drop in oil pressure in the VVT affects the timing and can affect the crank time. With no fault codes and if it doesn't get worse for me, I'm going to let this go now. It's just nice to know it's probably related to oil pressure in the VVT and not fuel pressure.

Thank you for finding the video!
 

Nemo312

Active member
Joined
Jan 11, 2019
Location
Seattle
TDI
2013 VW Golf TDI
My 2013 golf did this for a couple weeks and now if I don't cycle the glow plugs 3-4 times it long starts and throws a P0684 code. Which relates to glow plug performance. So I have a feeling this is a glow plug performance issue.
 

97B4TDi

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 5, 2007
Location
Wisconsin
TDI
1997 B4 Passat, 2013 Jetta Sportwagen TDI
Our motors do not have the same VVT system; this applies to the EA288
 

ksing44

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2010
Location
Southeast PA
TDI
2010 Golf TDI
Our motors do not have the same VVT system; this applies to the EA288
^^When I learned that in a different thread, I went back to my 2 depressions of the accelerator just before the first start of the day trick. It fires right up again! The rest of the day it starts immediately without anything special, even after sitting in the parking lot all day at work. For me, it's just a first start in the morning thing. That fit with the VVT issue, but it seems that's not the problem.

I'm glad the 2 pump thing is working at the moment. I like when the car fires right up in the morning! Initially it worked, then for a bit of time it didn't work for some reason. But even at the worst, it wasn't as bad as what is in the video. On a bad day, mine was like in the video after it was fixed.

Still loving my little diesel!
 

ksing44

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2010
Location
Southeast PA
TDI
2010 Golf TDI
What does to "2 pump" trick exactly do?
2 pump = 2 depressions of the accelerator. I do it with the key on, but before I actually start the car. I thought it might help getting fuel, but I admit I have no idea why it seems to work. I also have an upgraded CP3 fuel pump without the auxiliary pump, so I thought maybe it just didn't hold fuel up in the line the same way it did before the upgrade.
 

prsa01

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2000
Location
mpls,mn usa
TDI
14 jsw 6m, 96 B4v, miss my a4 :(
So, if it isn't vvt on our models does anyone have an idea what it is? Mine is pretty consistent first start of the day but never on other starts.

Fuel leaching back to tank? Is there something that is supposed to prevent that?

Only diagnostic idea I have is to run the in-tank fuel pump with vcds before first start of day to see if that makes a difference. My understanding is that the pump doesn't run at key-on anymore.
 

ksing44

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2010
Location
Southeast PA
TDI
2010 Golf TDI
Only diagnostic idea I have is to run the in-tank fuel pump with vcds before first start of day to see if that makes a difference. My understanding is that the pump doesn't run at key-on anymore.
That does sound like a great diagnostic test to confirm it's fuel related!

About the "anymore" in your comment, are you referring to since the fix or to this generation of the Golf and Sportwagen?
 

prsa01

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2000
Location
mpls,mn usa
TDI
14 jsw 6m, 96 B4v, miss my a4 :(
My understanding, only going from the fuel filter change thread, is this gen doesn't. Not sure of the reasoning.

People in that thread talk about running the pump with vcds to fill the filter saying that key-on doesn't do that any more.
 

ksing44

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2010
Location
Southeast PA
TDI
2010 Golf TDI
My understanding, only going from the fuel filter change thread, is this gen doesn't. Not sure of the reasoning.

People in that thread talk about running the pump with vcds to fill the filter saying that key-on doesn't do that any more.
I've also seen comments about the need for VCDS during the fuel filter change, but didn't make the connection. What you say makes sense!
 

GTPlus

Member
Joined
Aug 17, 2018
Location
MI
TDI
2013 Jetta
So, if it isn't vvt on our models does anyone have an idea what it is? Mine is pretty consistent first start of the day but never on other starts.
Fuel leaching back to tank? Is there something that is supposed to prevent that?
Only diagnostic idea I have is to run the in-tank fuel pump with vcds before first start of day to see if that makes a difference. My understanding is that the pump doesn't run at key-on anymore.
I'd be interested in your results. I am struggling with this same issue and it seems to be getting worse.

The longer it sits the harder it is to start. On one occurrence, when the vehicle we sitting for the weekend, it would not start no matter what I did. This includes using VCDS to run the pumps. I eventually had to put on a charger on it and keep trying to investigate. No codes, around 350 bar rail pressure at start, no restrictions in the filters.

Then for some strange reason it will all of a sudden just starts like nothing was ever wrong.

This is why it has been so difficult for me to diagnose.
 

prsa01

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2000
Location
mpls,mn usa
TDI
14 jsw 6m, 96 B4v, miss my a4 :(
I'd be interested in your results. I am struggling with this same issue and it seems to be getting worse.
The longer it sits the harder it is to start. On one occurrence, when the vehicle we sitting for the weekend, it would not start no matter what I did. This includes using VCDS to run the pumps. I eventually had to put on a charger on it and keep trying to investigate. No codes, around 350 bar rail pressure at start, no restrictions in the filters.
Then for some strange reason it will all of a sudden just starts like nothing was ever wrong.
This is why it has been so difficult for me to diagnose.
After thinking about it more and seeing your results, I'm thinking this is less likely to be the issue. The filter and fuel rail side of the system should still be loaded with fuel even if some drains back to the tank from prior to the filter.

I'll still try this and will report back but I'm somewhat doubtful this will end up being the cause.
 
Last edited:

Jaxon

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 15, 2006
Location
Saskatchewan, Canada
I'm having a very similar issue with my 2012 Golf Sportwagen A6. Car has 292,000 kms on it.


I bought it a year ago, and it would randomly take a long time to start, for the first start of the day. Didn't matter if it was +20 or - 20. Car always started. Maybe 1 in 20 times would require extended cranking.


This spring it got a lot worse. Now it's 1 in 2 first starts of the day.



I always let the glow plugs cycle. The car will spin and spin and spin. I stop, key off, cycle plugs and try again. Sometimes I need to do this a third time, car will start, run rough for a couple seconds, then works perfect. I have tried just spinning it over until it starts, eventually the car starts flashing low oil pressure on the dash. I don't think it's fuel draining back because I left the car parked for 6 weeks this summer while I drove my other car, and when I got back to it, the battery didn't have much juice, but it still started up right away after a few slow cranks. Car has NOT had the fix, and the condition of the DPF is unknown - car seems to run good, and gets acceptable fuel milage.


Thoughts?
 

Steve140

Veteran Member
Joined
Feb 15, 2002
Location
Komoka, Ontario
TDI
2000 & 2011 Golf TDIs
Could be a little water in the intercooler if you still have the EGR hooked up. Very common problem with these cars.
 

N2UADTDI

Veteran Member
Joined
Apr 16, 2009
Location
New Jersey
TDI
2009 Jetta Sedan DSG
We had increased cranks times on a cold start in the fall about a year ago. 2009 Jetta. Within a couple weeks CEL came on. It was a glow plug code. Don't recall the code. Took to dealer and was covered under the dieselgate warranty.They replaced 1 glow plug.



6 months later CEL came back on. This time related to glow plugs again. Took to dealer. They looked it over and claimed nothing was wrong. Been fine ever since.
 

prsa01

Veteran Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2000
Location
mpls,mn usa
TDI
14 jsw 6m, 96 B4v, miss my a4 :(
Anyone with this problem installed dieselgeek.com p2015 intake fix?

I have no reason to believe this will make a difference but installed it as a cheap preventative for the p2015 error code issue. Curious if anyone who has installed it is also getting the extended starting cranks 1st start of the day.

https://www.dieselgeek.com/collecti...-rail-tdi-with-aluminum-manifold-03l-129-711e

I will report in the unlikely event it makes a difference. Interestingly, Ksing44's 2 gas pedal pump while key on before cranking does seem to make a difference for my car. Makes no sense to me but just glad he mentioned it and it seems to have made a difference so far in my case.
 
Last edited:
Top