Improved fuel filtration water separation Water in Fuel alarm for PD and Common Rail

DanG144

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 2, 2007
Location
Chapin, South Carolina, USA
TDI
2005 A4 Jetta 5spd
2 Micron Caterpillar fuel filters went on my cars as soon as I bought them.
But I wanted a water separator and water in fuel alarm.

I recently added some fuel filters to my 2005 Jetta BEW PD, as a test bed for ultimate installation on my 2010 (well my wife's 2010) Jetta Sedan CJAA.

I ran 3/8" fuel line to a pair of WIX 24770 filter bases, through a 30 micron WIX 33367 "mud" filter(changing to 20 micron FS1212 - a much better water separator) with a water drain, then through a 7 micron Fleet Guard FS19596 secondary filter with water drain and Water-in-Fuel sensor on it. A 3/8" line runs back to my Lubrication Specialist's MkIV 2 micron Caterpillar filter.

The filter head is mounted outboard the left frame rail, just in front of the left front tire, right behind the horns. Remove the bumper cover, drill 3 holes, use self tapping machine screws - mounted in 30 minutes. Most of which was spent trying to get to the bolt heads to tighten them. I plan to make access points from under the fender for easy access to periodically drain the filters.

The PD fuel system puts out about 9 psig at idle, out of of the filter set up to the tandem pump. As engine speed at full throttle raises to 4500 rpm, the filter system outlet pressure drops to 1.5 psig. This is the same pressure drop as the 2 micron Caterpiller filter alone - my gauges show no difference at all - though we all know it has to have some flow resistance.

I have not done flow and pressure readings on the 2010 common rail, yet.

There is a chance that I will need to add a second in tank fuel pump in order to assure positive pressure to the Aux fuel pump/tandem pump.

The WIF (water in fuel) alarm is not yet hooked up (or even bought) on my 2005 - it will be a stand alone alarm - probably just light up an LED.

I was hoping that one of you genius club members that works with 1's and 0's for a living can help me figure out how to hook it up to the instrument cluster WIF alarm that I have been told exists on the 2010 Jetta Sedan - it is just not used.

Total cost about $136.00 US. for the recent add on unit. About $125 for the http://www.lubricationspecialist.com/volkswagen-tdi/cat-2-micron-filter-system/ .
wix filter 33367 $7
Fleet Guard FS 19596 $38
Wix 24770 bases $42.
fittings (half inch pipe nipple by 2", two brass 3/8" barb to 1/2" mpt) $10
20 ft 3/8 fuel hose Mcmaster 54605K34 $26
Hose clamps $4

There are many other choices available. I chose to keep the same thread and base for all 3 of my filters. That way one can replace another in a pinch.


This is just a thread on what I am doing to my own cars. You are responsible to anything you do to your own car.

 
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GraniteRooster

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 15, 2010
Location
Upper Valley NH
TDI
'12 JSW 6MT
I was hoping that one of you genius club members that works with 1's and 0's for a living can help me figure out how to hook it up to the instrument cluster WIF alarm that I have been told exists on the 2010 Jetta Sedan - it is just not used.
Great post! I have been meaning to put together a better filter system for my '10 but hadn't dived in yet. How did you decide on 2 micron - it that a typical final filter size used in the medium-heavy diesel industry? I've got some learning to do regarding hardware.

What is this WIF indicator on the instrument cluster you speak of? Does such a thing really exist? That would kinda imply VW has an WIF system available on something somewhere else in the world? That we might also check to see if it could be retrofit/adapted to the caras alternative? Just wondering...

Subscribed :cool:
 

turbocharged798

Veteran Member
Joined
May 21, 2009
Location
Ellenville, NY
TDI
99.5 black ALH Jetta;09 Gasser Jetta
Actually, 99.5 cars have what looks like a water in fuel light in the gauge cluster. It had no LED behind the icon but I made it functional on mine by adding a yellow LED and a resistor(nothing is hooked up to it yet). From other members that I have talked to, we speculate VW was planning on adding a water in fuel light to the MK4 cars and then decided to scrap the idea for some reason.

The icon looks like a low fuel light with a bunch of dots under it. Really weird. Its not on any other MKIV cars that I know of, only on 99.5s.

I wonder if the MKV cars have anything similar?
 

DanG144

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 2, 2007
Location
Chapin, South Carolina, USA
TDI
2005 A4 Jetta 5spd
Someone else once posted that there was a non-lit, non-used, WIF indicator in the 09 and 10 models.
I cannot see it, at all, even looking around with a flashlight at odd angles.
But it is very hard to see what all the non-used indicators are.
 

DanG144

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 2, 2007
Location
Chapin, South Carolina, USA
TDI
2005 A4 Jetta 5spd
I decided on the Caterpillar 1R 0750, 2 micron final filter for all the reasons that it was more or less settled on by a working group back in the early days of this forum. Getting details on fuel filter ratings can be surprisingly hard to do. The data often quoted is almost meaningless. I waded through hours of very old posts before I decided to go with their choice. This filter is often still suggested as one of the finest final filters you can get in many information sources.

It is one of the finest filters available, as in for smallest particles.
It has a very good capacity.
It has a low differential pressure.
It is cheap and readily available.
An aftermarket head is available for it with the thermostatic tee from Lubricationspecialist.com. Or from nicktane without the tee. I like the tee; it maintains features designed into the Mark IV, V, and VI cars; allowing the return flow to recycle through the filter when the fuel is cold, until it warms up. This helps ensure good fuel feed on frosty mornings, and improves combustion.

The mount can be installed in minutes in the Mark IV.
On the Mark V and VI, I cut the existing canister to make a mounting spot - not quite as convenient, but it still makes an excellent mount.

I chose to keep the filter mounts for the additional pre-filters and water separators the same thread and base size as the Caterpillar 1R-0750 2 micron filter. I chose not to use the RACOR water separator filters with bowls because of the potential for additional leaks and expense.

I read for hours on boat, heavy truck, and light truck diesel filtration in several forums before making my choices. I do not doubt there are better ways to make a filter setup, but I think this one is a fairly good first effort.

The filter choices I made are readily available, though I do have to get the FS19596 FleetGuard filter separator from a Cummins source.
 

740GLE

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 19, 2009
Location
NH
TDI
2015 Passat SEL, 2017 Alltrack SE; BB 2010 Sedan Man; 2012 Passat,
wow that's dusty in there for a 2010!!!

Do you feel that just running the Cat filter w/o water seporation would be good enough of an upgrade over the OEM Mann filters?
 

compu_85

Gadget Guy
Joined
Sep 29, 2003
Location
Springfield VA
TDI
... None :S
Actually, 99.5 cars have what looks like a water in fuel light in the gauge cluster. ...The icon looks like a low fuel light with a bunch of dots under it. Really weird. Its not on any other MKIV cars that I know of, only on 99.5s.
THAT'S what that goofy icon is for! Hmm!

-J
 

DanG144

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 2, 2007
Location
Chapin, South Carolina, USA
TDI
2005 A4 Jetta 5spd
wow that's dusty in there for a 2010!!!

Do you feel that just running the Cat filter w/o water seporation would be good enough of an upgrade over the OEM Mann filters?
I do think that the Cat filter alone is a worthwhile upgrade to the Common Rails (or any VW engine) over the original filter. That is what I have run on my 2010 since 12/2009 to now.

I am not quite ready to update my 2010 with this pre filter water drain setup - more data collection will be done.

Dan
 

DanG144

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 2, 2007
Location
Chapin, South Carolina, USA
TDI
2005 A4 Jetta 5spd
wow that's dusty in there for a 2010!!!

Do you feel that just running the Cat filter w/o water seporation would be good enough of an upgrade over the OEM Mann filters?
I live on a gravel road. The engines look like that in a week or so.
I have to wash them before servicing each time.
 

coalminer16

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Joined
Dec 11, 2008
Location
Central Wisconsin
TDI
Golf 2004
Need filter change you should update this and show exactly how/what you have the filter zip tied to. I am interested as my father plans on keeping the 09 for a while so this might be worth it.
 

jcrews

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Joined
Jul 28, 2007
Location
Round Rock, TX - VCDS
TDI
All gone
The only unused icon I could find was for interior monitoring. I didn't see anything that resembled water in fuel. This is just from the documentation; I don't have a real car to look at. I highly doubt there is one though.

You can, however, use a simple binary input that is already available in the cluster. The lamps are off when there is a path to common.

A few of these circuits are:
1. Brake pad wear
2. Washer tank low
3. Coolant tank low
 

DanG144

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 2, 2007
Location
Chapin, South Carolina, USA
TDI
2005 A4 Jetta 5spd
Jcrews,
Thanks for the input. You have a much better handle on these circuits than I do. (That is actually a mis-statement; it implies I have some knowledge of the circuits.)

One of these will be on my wife's 2010 common rail, and I am not sure a dual purpose warning would be effective for her. Or were you intending a complete high jacking of the function (now that I think about it, this seems more likely.) Even then, the simpler the better.

The circuit would have to alarm as the conductivity at the probe in the filter separator dropped to something under 200 kohms. (I have seen numbers from 150 to 180 Kohms)

Circuit design on available warning systems usually limit current flow and voltage at the probe, in order to assure no spark can be generated in a worst case scenario. While this is not a huge issue for us, misfuelings have occurred. So better safe than sorry. (Even though it would take a misfueling and a vapor space with oxygen.)

I bit the bullet and ordered a Racor RK 12870 unit which has a horn and light, for ultimate installation in the 2010. Its fuel system's potential damage due to water in fuel would warrant the continuous alarm until something was done about it.

Perhaps for my own car, I may play with the washer tank low circuit. It would certainly be a better use for it.
 

DanG144

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 2, 2007
Location
Chapin, South Carolina, USA
TDI
2005 A4 Jetta 5spd
Need filter change you should update this and show exactly how/what you have the filter zip tied to. I am interested as my father plans on keeping the 09 for a while so this might be worth it.

The Cat 2 micron filter is mounted in the old filter canister. The front 2/3 of the filter canister have been cut away, except the bottom was left intact as a shelf. This leaves all of the original filter canister mounting points intact. A layer of RTV was put down on the bottom so the filter will not chafe. A couple of dots of RTV were put on the left and right edges of the back plate for the same reason - the rivets that stick out in the photo linked below were covered with RTV.

I used an air powered cutoff wheel to cut the canister. You can see a rough picture of the housing as cut in this thread about flow paths. In the PDF attached in post #1. The PDF direct link is here, but if this link is bad, go to the thread and look in post #1. Look at the very last photo in the pdf.


I chose to use a simple ty wrap to hold it on, and it works fine. Of course you could put a large hose clamp around it if you wish.
 
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DanG144

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 2, 2007
Location
Chapin, South Carolina, USA
TDI
2005 A4 Jetta 5spd
2010 Common Rail CJAA fuel pressure readings

These pressure measurments are not lab quality; they are what I can afford to do.

2010 CJAA with a single cat 2 micron filter (replacing the stock filter) that has 15kmiles on it.

Lift pump only output test with VCDS gives 9 psig to the filter. (Engine off)

Aux pump only output test with VCDS quickly drops to 8 or 9" of vacuum reading at the filter inlet (engine off). I think it emptied the fuel filter and starved for fuel; I quickly shut it off. Note: ran lift pump output test for about 25 seconds before pressure returned to the normal 9 psig after this.

The basic settings 035 test with VCDS runs both pumps and the pressure at the filter supply runs at 2 psig (engine off).

Delivery to the filter is only 2 psi max at idle and drops to about 0.5 psig, at full throttle 4000 rpm.

The fuel pressure to the aux pump from the filter (filter outlet) (cat 2 micron at 15k miles) was 0.0, but not at a vacuum, at 4000 rpm full throttle.

Many other fuel systems (ALH or even the Duramax Common Rail System and some Cummins Common Rail systems) run at a vacuum. But I would rather see some positive pressure out of the filter to the HPFP. The stock lift pump seems marginal.

One weakness of the system is there is no alarm for inadequate fuel pressure delivery to the engine. One CR manufacturer specifies 4" hg vacuum (about [note the minus] -2 psig, or about 12.7 psia =psi absolute).

I have a sample vacuum switch coming to me to evaluate making an alarm for low fuel delivery pressure.


In another system (2005 PD):
2005 with cat 2 micron (that has 5 kmiles on it), at the engine delivery point out of the filter.
8.5 max at idle.
down to 1.5 psi at full throttle, 4500 rpm.
With the additional two filters in place (3 total) a 30 micron then 7 micron into the original 2 micron, the pressures out of the 2 micron CAT final filter were not noticeably different at idle or at 4,000 rpm full throttle.
The clean filters have a very small pressure drop even at about 4 lpm - not readily discernable with a 30" vacuum to 15 psig industrial gauge.



The VW flow path arrangement does not remove air from the system (unless the thermotee equivalent check valve leaks) but has the temperature control loop. When it is cold the fuel return from the engine does not return to the tank but to the fuel filter, recirculating through the fuel filter and back to the HPFP and engine until it warms. This is why I would not use a final filter that does not have a thermo tee or equivalent - it may not matter where I live, but in the Frozen North, or Colorado it certainly would. This applies to the CR and the PD.
 

VeeDubTDI

Wanderluster, Traveler, TDIClub Enthusiast
Joined
Jul 2, 2000
Location
Springfield, VA
TDI
‘18 Tesla Model 3D+, ‘14 Cadillac ELR, ‘13 Fiat 500e
Nice thread... But a 30 Micron fuel filter? Are you pumping sludge out of old heating oil tanks? ;)
 

DanG144

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 2, 2007
Location
Chapin, South Carolina, USA
TDI
2005 A4 Jetta 5spd
I can never be sure what is going into my tank. That is the problem.

The initial filter is to catch big chunks and hold water.

I changed the initial filter from the 30 micron mud filter to a 20 micron water separator separator. So the micron rating is 20/7/2 for the filters.

The First filter/separator removes 90% of the water that enters it, the second removes 95% of the water that enters it. The third is just a 2 micron filter - not rated for water removal.
 

terrydtdi

Veteran Member
Joined
May 16, 2006
Location
Charleston S.C.
TDI
2000 MK4 TDI Jetta 5spd
I watched Dan's set up in action today, and after several oz.'s of water was added, it performed very well. Moisture never made it into the clear container. Dan's R&D hard at work!:D
 

N41EF

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Joined
Feb 22, 2005
Location
Aiken, SC
TDI
2011 Golf, 2009 ML 320, 2006 NB, 2001 NB
Dan, what do you think the rating of the OEM Boch filter is?

I like the idea of a 2 micron filter on a PD to keep ANYTHING that isn't fuel out of the engine. I've never gotten more than a few drops of water out of a stock filter with 20k mile changes, does the CAT filter just hold any water entrained?

Thanks!
 

DanG144

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Aug 2, 2007
Location
Chapin, South Carolina, USA
TDI
2005 A4 Jetta 5spd
I have never seen the OEM Bosch filte ratings, even after asking vendors for them. I have heard numbers from 20 to 7 micron, but never any beta ratios or percentage numbers.

Real ratings should have several numbers. For instance I will always try to give real rating numbers. If I just say 2 microns, then I mean 2 microns absolute (removes 98.7% of particles 2 microns or larger) which is what the CAT is rated.

You have to watch it because I have seen a filter rated at 10 microns, but it only got 50% on each pass. This is more like a 20 micron absolute filter.

The CAT filter is not rated for any water removal. It will probably hold some water in the bottom, but it has no rating for that.
 
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