Immobilizer strikes again on my 2002 NB

[Rickstah]

Greetings, this is not the first time I have had these symptoms where it just suddenly won't start, it just cranks as long as you try it then stops. I think there were some past episodes where it would start doing it and after several sessions and some voodoo with various combos of pressing the fuel pedal to the floor then turning off and on the ignition and removing the key, it would sometimes fire up, I have no idea what caused it to start, lol. Anyway, this last time seems to be permanent, had to have it towed home from work, clearing all DTCs didn't make it start working so I guess it needs the delete treatment?

These are the relevant codes I think, below. I also have some abs intermittent codes and I need to put in a new harness but have been busy.

I did see one I have never seen before about the "key", too close to be a coincidence I think.

Is this where I send up a flare for @burpod , please?

3 Faults Found:

01316 - ABS Control Module

49-10 - No Communications - Intermittent

01321 - Control Module for Airbags (J234)

49-10 - No Communications - Intermittent

01176 - Key

65-10 - UnAuthorized - Intermittent

Chassis Type: 1C (1C - VW New Beetle (1998 > 2010))

Scan: 01 02 03 08 15 17 19 25 29 35 37 39 46 54 56 65 75



VIN: 3VWCP21C92M403114 Mileage: 274280km-170429miles

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Address 01: Engine Labels: 038-906-012-AGR.clb

Part No: 038 906 012 FF

Component: 1,9l R4 EDC G040SG 4104

Coding: 00002

Shop #: WSC 00066

VCID: 59B784F0C3D80353ED-4B18

3VWCP21C92M403114 VWZ5Z0Z5062618



1 Fault Found:

17978 - Engine Start Blocked by Immobilizer

P1570 - 35-10 - - Intermittent

Readiness: 0 0 0 0 0

 

[burpod]

sounds like immobo issue to me. when immobo is a problem, it should fire up, but then die right away, and then get that code 17978

if it cranks and cranks and doesnt fire, thats not an immobo problem (afaik) and likely a separate issue.

you can figure out how to delete it yourself, or i can do it for you with mpps for a reasonable "fee" takes 2 min

 

[Gruni14]

if it cranks and cranks and doesnt fire, thats not an immobo problem (afaik) and likely a separate issue.

Agree'd. Is the Immobilizer light blinking? Did you try another key? (not that it would make any difference)

But you say the battery is 'good' ...b/c it cranks over well,, right? I would look at the connections in the junction above the battery. Make sure they are good. Unhook the battery and pull the fuses and ensure they are good. I might even leave the cables unhooked for a long time (or hold together for a couple minutes) and re-hook up. See if anything is different. Have you tried that?

Asking the group ....Could a flaking-out ignition switch cause this??

 

[Vince Waldon]

If the car cranks and cranks and cranks but won't start: it's NOT the immobilizer.

If the car cranks, starts, runs normally for 3-5 seconds and then stops while leaving the immobilizer light flashing: it's the immobilizer.

Not uncommon for the car to occasionally mis-read the key and trigger a one-off code; now that you've got a record of all the codes I'd be inclined to clear 'em all and see what comes back.

 

[Rickstah]

Thank you for all the suggestions. Answers:
1) If the Immob. light is the one that looks like a Beetle outline, then that one does flash as long as the ignition is on.
2) When I try to start it, it acts like it is about to fire and then when I let off the starter it just stops. This is the first time it has not finally restarted, I tried again last night but it did the same thing. It acts like no fuel but I've had a lift pump in it since last year and it seemed to solve a couple of missing and bogging issues.
3) Grun I will try your suggestions. I have seen the Immob. message before a few times but it always started up and then I read where it is designed to stop after the car runs or moves some, so it is not that. The key msg I have never seen, will try the other one. I got two new fobs after the others wore out but they seemed to program ok, each fob will do everything necessary. I will report back, thanks again.

 

[Gruni14]

Immob looks like a Key (on Rt side of the IP).

I've been through an immobilizer issue. But engine would always 'start' (for one second). I turned over every rock and never resolved. Not fun. (had it deleted).

Dumb question: starting at the basics ...Is there fuel in the tank? Issue with the fuel filter?

 

[csstevej]

Out of curiosity….. when you crank are you seeing the rpm’s or is the needle not moving.
Could be a crank sensor, I had a similar issue on my DD. Crank sensor was flaky.

 

[Rickstah]

OK I went out and walkede through it again. The motor does probably start for a second or less after you let off the start but it won't catch after that.
Yes the immob. light looked like a bug outline but the key shows upon closer look.
Fuel filter is new and full tank and lift pump has a distinctive sound before it stops pressurizing.

Interestingly, if I delete the immob. fault code it pops right back into existence. I tried using the other fobs and they can operate the whole car and start up but don't change the outcome.

" if it cranks and cranks and doesnt fire, thats not an immobo problem (afaik) and likely a separate issue. "

Normally I would just stop once it catches momentarily and then dies, I just meant if I stay on the starter it will just keep cranking until I stop.

Steve the rpm gauge jumps to about 900 right before it dies.

Do I need to send this ecu to you, Burpod? mpps must be software and I only have VCDS but I can ship the ecu, just message me if you have time, thanks. Maybe you can also figure out why I am only getting 37 mpg, lol.

 

[P2B]

You can use your VCDS cable and user @gmenounos free software kw1281test to disable the immobilizer in a minute or two.

Write EDC15 EEPROM · Issue #54 · gmenounos/kw1281test

Hi, your tool is the only one that is able to dump the EDC15 EEPROM on my skoda octavia year 2001. I am using CH340 "blue" cable for vag-com 409.1. No other tool was able to dump the eeprom for me....

github.com

 

[Tdijarhead]

The abs “no communication “ problem is likely a blown #9 fuse.

Did you or someone else add a fuel lift pump to this car as 2002’s didn’t have a factory lift pump?

Yeah, it does sound like you’ve got an immo problem. Just do the delete or have burped do it.

 

[P2B]

Did you or someone else add a fuel lift pump to this car as 2002’s didn’t have a factory lift pump?

I've had a lift pump in it since last year and it seemed to solve a couple of missing and bogging issues.

 

[Gruni14]

The Immobilizer

Basics: You put your key into the ignition and there's a ring around the key which is an induction ring. That activates the pellet reads the pellet in the fob within a 1" radius. Then a signal is sent to the dash cluster. Which then says "Ok, this is the right key". The cluster 'talks' to the ECU ...and the ECU then gives the go-ahead to stay running if the handshake is 'good'. There's a little more than that, but that's the basics and those things have to line up. So, ....Key, induction ring around the keyhole, wiring from induction ring to dash cluster, cluster ...communication & thumbs-up from ECU recognizing the key ....are the basic requirements. If I'm forgetting something, ...others please add. From what I can tell, the door locks and door alarm aren't part of it, just the key on down the system.


COMPONENTS:
Ignition coil ring: If it's damaged or not reading, or the little wire came unhooked (can happen) ...and not sending the right signal back to the dash, it'll set off the immo. Sometimes the little wire connector has come off for some car owners. It's worth checking that. Somehow a resistance of 18-25 ohms is what I remember ...it should be within. It would be worth unhooking the battery and loosen the cluster wires and make sure the little wire is connected. Wiggle the dash & ECU wiring (under center of windshield from engine compartment).

Key: Worth trying another key if you have two. If you dropped the fob real hard, it *can* break the pellet (not likely but has happened to others). On mine neither made a difference. So if the programming was 'off' that would make sense. But I never had the car/system reprogrammed to know.

Key Programming within the dash: If the key/car programming somehow got changed (some say the battery going dead under the wrong circumstances can in some cases goof up the key/car programming), the dash won't recognize the key, it will think someone's attempting to steal the car. That will set the Immo. In those cases, having the key and system reprogrammed at the dealer or by the right key guy ...fixes it. There have been a number of owners who have had the system reprogrammed for the key and that solved the problem. Unfortunately it's not going to tell you that's the problem.

Other Mysterious Problem: Who knows? A lot of people have banged their head on the Immobilizer issue. After I read & tried EVERYTHING hardware related ....everything except towing the car to the dealer and having the key re-programmed .....and spending a couple frustrating months (on & off), I finally sent in the ECU to a guy on ebay (Missouri I believe??) who promptly deleted it and sent it back. Runs great. The Immobilizer light stayed on, but I remove the LED from the dash...so now it doesn't. I didn't want the possibility of it flaking out in some far-off location on me.


The battery on my car DID go dead ...about the time the Immo had engaged. It's possible getting the key reprogrammed might have resolved the problem. I could not find a locksmith in our area which re-programmed them. I know for a fact the pellet in my fob was not broken. I could have winched the car onto my trailer, or paid a tow company $150 to tow my car to the VW dealer ..left it there, and possibly spent $200for a key reprogram (probably double that with my luck). Maybe that would have resolved it, maybe not (??). If I could have found a key guy who would come out and do the reprogramming, I would have done it.

With the Immobilizer deleted, the door alarms still work like they used to.

 

[Rickstah]

Thanks for all the great info on this thread. I belive I have a path forward worked out with someone so hopefully it will come back to life soon.

 

[P2B]

I finally sent in the ECU to a guy on ebay (Missouri I believe??) who promptly deleted it and sent it back. Runs great. The Immobilizer light stayed on, but I remove the LED from the dash...so now it doesn't.

He did not do it correctly, the immobilizer light should not stay on.

If you have a VCDS cable, you can disable the immobilizer properly in a few seconds using @gmenounos free software kw1281test.

.I could have winched the car onto my trailer, or paid a tow company $150 to tow my car to the VW dealer ..left it there, and possibly spent $200for a key reprogram (probably double that with my luck).

No need for locksmiths or dealers. You can reprogram keys in 5 minutes with VCDS.

Immobilizer III Key Matching (Cluster) - Ross-Tech Wiki

 

[Gruni14]

No need for locksmiths or dealers. You can reprogram keys in 5 minutes with VCDS.

Good point. I forgot that. I never bought VCDS. At the time I wasn't driving the Jetta, probably for 2 yrs ....was thinking of selling the car. Maybe I should have asked Jason stop by and look into it. Not sure why that never crossed my mind?? (finger-gun to head pulling trigger!)

Ultimately I didn't sell it. Guess if I ever need/get the software, I can reverse all that. I have a snap-on scanner which has a lot of capability, but obviously not quite into the weeds like VCDS. Works great on my other vehicles though

Thanks for the info. That's a good argument for someone to buy the software.

 

[BobnOH]

kw1281test is free sauceware. You will need a suitable cable.
Guarantee it will take longer than 5 minutes to get it going.

 

[pkhoury]

sounds like immobo issue to me. when immobo is a problem, it should fire up, but then die right away, and then get that code 17978

if it cranks and cranks and doesnt fire, thats not an immobo problem (afaik) and likely a separate issue.

you can figure out how to delete it yourself, or i can do it for you with mpps for a reasonable "fee" takes 2 min

I didn't know you could delete the immo with mpps. I've always done it with vagcancom and a cheap Chinese cable. But yeah, that takes under 2 minutes as well.

 

[gmenounos]

He did not do it correctly, the immobilizer light should not stay on.

If you have a VCDS cable, you can disable the immobilizer properly in a few seconds using @gmenounos free software kw1281test.

No need for locksmiths or dealers. You can reprogram keys in 5 minutes with VCDS.

Immobilizer III Key Matching (Cluster) - Ross-Tech Wiki

kw1281test can also match keys.