Immobilizer? Only battery light on cluster lit. Cranks, Starts, shuts down.

20bugsys

Active member
Joined
Jan 8, 2008
Location
Ferndale, Michigan
TDI
2009 A4 Avant 2.0T, 1996 1Z TDI swap in a Syncro, Modified 1969 Standard Beetle, Original Condition 1960 Deluxe Beetle
Took my 04 Jetta to be detailed today. It's been there before with no issues.

BEW, 5 speed manual.

I'd parked it overnight there, cold night. Detailer called me in the morning and said he'd had trouble starting it so I told him to just push it in and clean it up. I assumed he'd not waited for the glow plug light or a low battery.



I went in at 4:30 to see if it was finished and they told me to come back at 6 because the car wasn't finished. They mentioned that they couldn't get the windows to go down.



When I went back at 6, they told me the car still won't start.



So I operated the locks from the key fob and they worked fine. I put the key in, turn it to on, and only the battery light on the cluster is lit. The usual christmas tree of lights is missing. Turn the key, cranks great, starts and runs for a split second, then dies.



I checked all the fuses, they are good, including the fuses under the bonnet on top of the battery. Disconnected the battery for a few minutes, same thing.

I left it there overnight with a charger on the battery. Will see what happens tomorrow.

Any Ideas?
 
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20bugsys

Active member
Joined
Jan 8, 2008
Location
Ferndale, Michigan
TDI
2009 A4 Avant 2.0T, 1996 1Z TDI swap in a Syncro, Modified 1969 Standard Beetle, Original Condition 1960 Deluxe Beetle
I trailered the car back home. It's in a heated garage now. I am trying to diagnose.

List of Symptoms and Conditions:

I've tried all 3 keys, none work
Turn key to on position, no lights in cluster except battery light, lift pump kicks on as usual, throttle and controllers in engine bay turn on, (make usual whine)
Turn key to start, fires up and immediately shuts down.
No rpms showing on tach when this happens
Battery voltage checked, 13.5 volts
Interior dome lights work as usual
Locks and Windows do NOT operate from controls on doors inside of vehicle
Locks operate with Key Fob
Windows roll down when key is turned in door handle

Here's what I tried so far:

Charged battery over night. Now 2 nights in a row on a trickle battery tender. This battery is only a few months old.
Disconnected battery and connected positive and negative for 15 minutes+ with key on.
Re-seated Inst. Cluster connectors
Checked all Fuses
Tried to scan with Vag-Com, cannot connect to any controllers.

Will update as I try more.
 
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20bugsys

Active member
Joined
Jan 8, 2008
Location
Ferndale, Michigan
TDI
2009 A4 Avant 2.0T, 1996 1Z TDI swap in a Syncro, Modified 1969 Standard Beetle, Original Condition 1960 Deluxe Beetle
Update:

I re-seated the ECU plugs, re-seated every fuse and relay I can find.

I disconnected the aftermarket radio completely as Id read that they sometimes cause shorts. No Change.

In my chasing of circuits I discovered that the cigarette lighter circuit is Hot on all the time, regardless of the ignition. I don't remember that ever being the case which makes me think there may be a short somewhere. My phone charger never worked unless the car was running. Second guessing myself on this and don't want to end up down a rabbit hole.

At one point, after re-seating the cluster plugs for about the 20th time, everything fired up as normal and the car started and ran. For a moment Id thought Id fixed it and shut it off, but the next time I tried it I was back to square one.

I've ordered a supposedly good used cluster from someone to try out in case it's the cluster. I should have it in a few days.

Any advice on how to code it to the ECU?
 

79TA7.6

Veteran Member
Joined
May 8, 2006
Location
Live: Wilbur/Creston; Work: Moses Lake Washington
TDI
2003 TDI Jetta, 2002 TDI Golf, 2005 TDI Golf
Comment on the cig lighter. I think on all MK4 this is always powered. I think the newer cars you could tell VCDS to either power all the time or with ignition only, but I am not sure.

As for the rest of your issues, this really sucks. I am sorry. I have heard a lot about relay 109, but if memory serves correct your engine will not even crank if this is the issue. I am not sure if you have read up on this or not.
 

20bugsys

Active member
Joined
Jan 8, 2008
Location
Ferndale, Michigan
TDI
2009 A4 Avant 2.0T, 1996 1Z TDI swap in a Syncro, Modified 1969 Standard Beetle, Original Condition 1960 Deluxe Beetle
I have heard a lot about relay 109, but if memory serves correct your engine will not even crank if this is the issue. I am not sure if you have read up on this or not.
Yes, I don't think it's an issue on this model. The car cranks and fires every time, then dies just like the immobilizer normally functions.
 

20bugsys

Active member
Joined
Jan 8, 2008
Location
Ferndale, Michigan
TDI
2009 A4 Avant 2.0T, 1996 1Z TDI swap in a Syncro, Modified 1969 Standard Beetle, Original Condition 1960 Deluxe Beetle
Well, I don't know what to say now. The last time I pulled the cluster, it slid off my lap onto the floor. Not a big fall but a bump. Then I plugged it in again and everything works normally. I just put about ten miles on it, shut it off repeatedly, it's not acting up at all for now. I'll keep monitoring it and report back if anything changes.
 

JB05

Top Post Dawg
Joined
Oct 20, 2005
Location
Il.USA
TDI
Golf,2005,anthracite blue
Jetta 97 could get your second cluster to work; otherwise it will only allow the engine to run for two seconds.
 

20bugsys

Active member
Joined
Jan 8, 2008
Location
Ferndale, Michigan
TDI
2009 A4 Avant 2.0T, 1996 1Z TDI swap in a Syncro, Modified 1969 Standard Beetle, Original Condition 1960 Deluxe Beetle
Well that didn't last long. Dead again. Taking it into my preferred VW Mechanic on Monday.
 

mjwilson

Veteran Member
Joined
Dec 17, 2005
Location
Oakdale, CA
TDI
2015 Passat SE (bought back 11/28/2016)..adieu
When you say "cluster" I'm assuming you're saying the instrument panel (IP)? I experienced the exact same problems you're having with a '99 Chrysler Town & Country. It turned out that some of the solder joints on the IP circuit board holding in the central input connector were corroded and/or cracked. This apparently caused the ECU to think the car was stolen and would shut down immediately after starting (immobilization mode). Prior to this, though, the IP was acting erratically (speedo flicker, weird lights on, etc.). I removed the circuit board and had the solder joints around the central connector repaired by a local computer shop. It worked normally since...and then I promptly sold it :).

Keep us posted. I have an '04 Jetta too so I'll be following your progress.
 

20bugsys

Active member
Joined
Jan 8, 2008
Location
Ferndale, Michigan
TDI
2009 A4 Avant 2.0T, 1996 1Z TDI swap in a Syncro, Modified 1969 Standard Beetle, Original Condition 1960 Deluxe Beetle
Yes, the IP, and I will pull it and look at the solder joints. It was giving me false fuel gauge readings before this but I assumed it was the sender.

The only thing that has really worked to solve this was unplugging and reseating the 2 harness plugs that attach to the cluster (IP). And its intermittent.

Could you actually see the bad solder joints? The solder joints in the fuel injection module on my truck were bad once and they were invisible to my eye.
 

20bugsys

Active member
Joined
Jan 8, 2008
Location
Ferndale, Michigan
TDI
2009 A4 Avant 2.0T, 1996 1Z TDI swap in a Syncro, Modified 1969 Standard Beetle, Original Condition 1960 Deluxe Beetle
My local VW/Audi Specialist confirmed it was the cluster at fault. They are pursuing reprogramming the used spare cluster I have at the moment. If that fails, they will send my cluster out to be repaired.
At this point I'm concluding that it was a complete coincidence that the cluster failed while the car was out at the detail shop. Like I said before, it had been giving me erratic false fuel gauge readings for awhile before this.
When the car comes back from the shop, it will have a new tie rod and alignment, a new O2 sensor, and a fresh cluster. Then the car will be up for sale....the reason why it went to the detailer in the first place.
 
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